Amy In Sonic 2

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by E-122-Psi, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    As a follow up to the Sonic 1 hack, here is Amy Rose in Sonic the Hedgehog 2:

    <img src="http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7100/s2built0022.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    <img src="http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9981/s2built000l.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    <img src="http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5249/s2built002.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    <b>Controls:</b>

    * Hammer : A button
    * High Jump : Crouch and A
    * Hammer dash : Down and A mid air
    * Peel-Out/Upright Dash : Hold Down and B/C

    <b>Glitches/Unfinished Elements:</b>

    * Certain fonts have not yet been edited according to the new character.
    * Some sprites aren't quite finished or refined properly (the special stage sprites are badly implemented for example).
    * I also have taken out 'Super Amy' for the time being.
    * Other sprites have not yet been refined for Amy's pallette (sceptic Tails and Eggman lol).
    * The title screen is not edited yet.
    * Amy's gameplay does work in two player from what I know, however the newly implemented sprites are garbled in split screen mode.
    * Tails' ending has an odd pallette glitch, not quite sure how that happened.

    <b>Download:</b>

    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Amy_Rose_In_Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2" target="_blank">http://info.sonicretro.org/Amy_Rose_In_Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2</a>

    <b>Previous Revisions:</b>
    <a href="http://www.sendspace.com/file/vobzte" target="_blank">http://www.sendspace.com/file/vobzte</a>
    <a href="http://www.sendspace.com/file/zznrd9" target="_blank">http://www.sendspace.com/file/zznrd9</a>
    <a href="http://www.sendspace.com/file/sk0zud" target="_blank">http://www.sendspace.com/file/sk0zud</a>

    Special thanx to Selbi, MainMemory and many others. Since a lot of the programming was essentially taken from the Sonic 1 hack with only slight alteration, credit goes essentially to the same people who helped with that as well.
     
  2. Hi, just tried the game and indeed Amy does gives it a whole different feeling, kind of a high speed Ninja Gaiden or Strider game.

    When I first heard you were working on this one I was really curious as how Amy would work, as in the first game due to the heavy focus in platforming she did amazing, however Sonic 2 is a more speed oriented game. Fortunately she did very good, the fact that she just runs withoput curling added a challenge as now you have to actually take more care when navigating through the acts.

    One thing I liked is how the hammer dash allow to save time in zones like Casino Night, and even help navigate with more precision.

    My only nitpick so far would be Hill top zone, more specifically the loops where you have to curl to dig through, there was one that could be avoided using hammer jumo, but on the other I had to position Tails ahead and do a lpop while pressing down so he could break the ground.

    Overall a very good job, love how you even added her running to form the SEGA logo. And again I love how once again Amy provides a new and harder challange by taking away commodities like spindash that most people take for granted yet at the same time featuring moves that allow her to evade obstacles the others can't.
     
  3. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=483356:date=Jul 24 2010, 10:33 PM:name=sms skull leader)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sms skull leader @ Jul 24 2010, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483356"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi, just tried the game and indeed Amy does gives it a whole different feeling, kind of a high speed Ninja Gaiden or Strider game.

    When I first heard you were working on this one I was really curious as how Amy would work, as in the first game due to the heavy focus in platforming she did amazing, however Sonic 2 is a more speed oriented game. Fortunately she did very good, the fact that she just runs withoput curling added a challenge as now you have to actually take more care when navigating through the acts.

    One thing I liked is how the hammer dash allow to save time in zones like Casino Night, and even help navigate with more precision.

    My only nitpick so far would be Hill top zone, more specifically the loops where you have to curl to dig through, there was one that could be avoided using hammer jumo, but on the other I had to position Tails ahead and do a lpop while pressing down so he could break the ground.

    Overall a very good job, love how you even added her running to form the SEGA logo. And again I love how once again Amy provides a new and harder challange by taking away commodities like spindash that most people take for granted yet at the same time featuring moves that allow her to evade obstacles the others can't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yay, you have an account here. Welcome to Retro (for those unaqquainted, SMS Skull Leader is a brilliant artist and a BIG TIME Amy Rose fan). :D

    Yeah I thought the upward dash may be a neccessary replacement for her leap move given the more speed oriented 'obstacle course' levels in Sonic 2. That said I think the peel out works better as a variant of the spin dash. They're too similar to really justify having both like Sonic did in CD, they have equal pros and cons however that give a unique to a character that only has one (peel out isn't lethal, but it charges you running allowing you to maintain speed without needing to jump into upright formation).

    Hmm, not sure why that problem with Hill Top is occuring, I tested it several times over and all the loops I tried worked (go through the loop and then hammer just as you reach the ground). Admitedly my actual preference would be for Amy to be able to hammer it without going through the loop but I don't really know the ASM program to edit for that.

    Anyway thanx for the detailed review, SMS and glad you like it so much. I'll try to improve on it in the passing weeks. :D
     
  4. amphobius

    amphobius

    doing more important things with my life Member
    2,120
    0
    16
    life
    <!--quoteo(post=483361:date=Jul 25 2010, 03:48 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jul 25 2010, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483361"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, not sure why that problem with Hill Top is occuring, I tested it several times over and all the loops I tried worked (go through the loop and then hammer just as you reach the ground). Admitedly my actual preference would be for Amy to be able to hammer it without going through the loop but I don't really know the ASM program to edit for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you want a quick and easy way, place a few Forced Spin objects where spinning is mandatory and that they're not already there. You can check Casino Night Zone for an easy way of checking how they work.
     
  5. dsrb

    dsrb

    Member
    3,149
    0
    0
    I haven't tried this, although I may challenge myself to a full run of <I>S2</I> soon, so that may be an excuse. But one thing I did notice . . .
    <!--quoteo(post=483324:date=Jul 25 2010, 12:54 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jul 25 2010, 12:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483324"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7100/s2built0022.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Amy's looking a little like Down's Syndrome Sonic on that sign. :P
     
  6. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

    Member
    nice!! :D I was expecting this very much! *runs to play*
     
  7. Lanzer

    Lanzer

    The saber calls for its master... Member
    6,842
    0
    16
    Glendale, AZ
    Doing Stuff.
    Was amy in sonic 1 ever finished? I remember hearing that it was on permanent hiatus.

    Glad to see the "Amy in" series being continued.
     
  8. Awesome hack! Adds more depth to the original for sure!

    Now we just need to replace Tails with Cream... :P
     
  9. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    ♡ ! Resident Jester
    And to think I gained all emeralds one by one to expect a Super Amy, but nooOOOooo.

    Back to the awesome; fantastic work Psi, Amy feels a lot more smooth in animation this time around (Possibly because of the more frames used in S2), the special stage Amy design was neat, though I would assume you know about the sprite glitch when she's at an angle (Mapping position incorrect?), but I had lots of fun with this, having amy in the older series with the dynamic new changes towards the character, really changes the way the game plays, but obviously in a good way.

    Once again, fantastic work.
     
  10. Ranger

    Ranger

    BBQ flickies Member
    119
    0
    0
    Canuckistan
    Sonic and the Rings of Order RPG
    eee little amy :3
    This is really fun, Amy's hammer moves make the game both harder and easier in different ways. And I know it's gona be fixed, but seeing all the badniks and stuff in the wrong pallette makes me giggle.

    I do miss the bunny hop though :<

    EDIT: daww the continue sprite is a widdle ammy :3 :3
     
  11. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=483535:date=Jul 25 2010, 02:10 PM:name=MarkeyJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarkeyJester @ Jul 25 2010, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483535"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And to think I gained all emeralds one by one to expect a Super Amy, but nooOOOooo.

    Back to the awesome; fantastic work Psi, Amy feels a lot more smooth in animation this time around (Possibly because of the more frames used in S2), the special stage Amy design was neat, though I would assume you know about the sprite glitch when she's at an angle (Mapping position incorrect?), but I had lots of fun with this, having amy in the older series with the dynamic new changes towards the character, really changes the way the game plays, but obviously in a good way.

    Once again, fantastic work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Heh. Yeah sorry about that. I did note that on the 'to-fix' list above. Even with all the necessary sprites I'm not sure how to work it properly though since Super mode doesn't seem to recognise all the necessary sprites and animations for Amy's gameplay and produces the wrong animations or garbage when you perform certain attacks. I'm hoping there is a way to get Super's programming (along with maybe split screen mode) to properly display them.

    And the special stage jumpy animation, yeah I know, properly scaling the diagonal sprites is tricky as it seems to be a mix of both skewing and rotating. Plus I can't get the mappings to load properly so I have to use guess work on 'placeholder' ones.

    <!--quoteo(post=483502:date=Jul 25 2010, 11:52 AM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Jul 25 2010, 11:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483502"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awesome hack! Adds more depth to the original for sure!

    Now we just need to replace Tails with Cream... :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Easier said than done. I'll need to make a new sprite sheet, add to that I'll need to find a way to get around Amy's pallette since it doesn't quite have the matching colors.

    <!--quoteo(post=483499:date=Jul 25 2010, 11:48 AM:name=Lanzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lanzer @ Jul 25 2010, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483499"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was amy in sonic 1 ever finished? I remember hearing that it was on permanent hiatus.

    Glad to see the "Amy in" series being continued.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes and no. It was more or less finished outside a few minor issues (f***ed up demos due to different gameplay, wierd glitch with turning while attacking that I've never managed to figure how to fix and is still in use in this hack). I may get back to it eventually, but gameplay wise it's more or less complete.

    <!--quoteo(post=483537:date=Jul 25 2010, 02:12 PM:name=Ranger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ranger @ Jul 25 2010, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483537"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I know it's gona be fixed, but seeing all the badniks and stuff in the wrong pallette makes me giggle.

    I do miss the bunny hop though :<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah I'll try to fix up all the sceptic characters and badniks in the next revision.

    The bunny hop move was a sad edit but probably necessary given Sonic 2's level design. I think it makes her abilities a bit more on par with the others anyway, now she has a more effective accelleration move, even it's not as fun to abuse.
     
  12. MoDule

    MoDule

    Tech Member
    309
    0
    16
    Procrastinating from writing bug-fix guides
    So, am I the only one who got far enough to notice you can't get past WFZ? During the cutscene after the boss Amy swings her hammer instead of jumping and plummets to her death.
    A few other things I noticed:
    - When you use the hammer on the ground you can repeatedly swing it back and forth by pushing in the other direction. Is this intentional?
    - The hammer dash (Down and A mid air) feels a bit fast (or the speed change is simply too sudden) and the fact that you can't control whether you bounce high or low when you break something feels awkward.
    - The air speed cap hasn't been removed. That alone wouldn't be strange except that you did remove it in Amy in Sonic 1.
    - Since this is based on Sonic Advance, I don't think Amy should be able to destroy things when she's rolled up into a ball.
    - Ducking brings you to a dead stop. It would be nice if you slid along the ground instead.

    I have a few more small nitpicks, but there's no need to get into that right now.
    Of course, that's not to say this hack isn't awesome. The new gameplay style provides a fresh experience in an otherwise played to death game. Some parts are easier while others are harder, so it's a nice re-balancing of the original. So far, it looks like you did a good job.

    <u>Edit</u>: Okay, just saw the thing about attacking and turning around in your previous post, so instead of merely pointing it out I'll try to provide some advice: There's an SST value move_lock that locks Sonic's horizontal controls when it's greater than 0, essentially disallowing the player from turning around. You could try using something like that.
     
  13. Tichmall

    Tichmall

    Member
    138
    0
    0
    J.League PK Party, a "penalty kick" minigame.
    Wow, can't wait to see Silver Amy in the Death Egg ! Nice hack anyway !

    On the first sreenshot, you should have given Tails a pervert face. :p
     
  14. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=483584:date=Jul 25 2010, 05:20 PM:name=MoDule)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MoDule @ Jul 25 2010, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483584"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, am I the only one who got far enough to notice you can't get past WFZ? During the cutscene after the boss Amy swings her hammer instead of jumping and plummets to her death.
    A few other things I noticed:
    - When you use the hammer on the ground you can repeatedly swing it back and forth by pushing in the other direction. Is this intentional?
    - The hammer dash (Down and A mid air) feels a bit fast (or the speed change is simply too sudden) and the fact that you can't control whether you bounce high or low when you break something feels awkward.
    - The air speed cap hasn't been removed. That alone wouldn't be strange except that you did remove it in Amy in Sonic 1.
    - Since this is based on Sonic Advance, I don't think Amy should be able to destroy things when she's rolled up into a ball.
    - Ducking brings you to a dead stop. It would be nice if you slid along the ground instead.

    I have a few more small nitpicks, but there's no need to get into that right now.
    Of course, that's not to say this hack isn't awesome. The new gameplay style provides a fresh experience in an otherwise played to death game. Some parts are easier while others are harder, so it's a nice re-balancing of the original. So far, it looks like you did a good job.

    <u>Edit</u>: Okay, just saw the thing about attacking and turning around in your previous post, so instead of merely pointing it out I'll try to provide some advice: There's an SST value move_lock that locks Sonic's horizontal controls when it's greater than 0, essentially disallowing the player from turning around. You could try using something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    * Aw crap, I thought I had done a test run of it working. Must be the cutscene uses A as a command perhaps (Sonic 1 uses C for almost all it's demos and cutscenes so I'm used to that).
    * Hmm, I'll have to look into that. It is a glitch that has plagued all of my projects so getting rid of it would be refreshing.
    * I edited the hold sensitivity as it meant the high jump had problems working unless you pressed real hard (right now both hammer spin and high jump use the same address).
    * I'll look into it. I was intending to make a few odd fixes in later revisions (eg. the screen glitch in Emerald Hill).
    * I dwindle over this one, since so many more sequences revolve around auto spinning in the game than Advance which may cause problems.
    * I tried implementing that in the Sonic 1 hack as well but I had problems adding a pace down effect that was short and subtle enough without her sliding all over the place for a few seconds.

    EDIT: Fixed the WFZ bug, meaning Amy is now fully playable through the whole game. Would you guys like the fixed version now or wait till I've made some more refinements?
     
  15. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    New revision:

    <a href="http://www.sendspace.com/file/vobzte" target="_blank">http://www.sendspace.com/file/vobzte</a>

    A few bugfixes and most of the pallette fixes done par Tails. Some refinements to Amy's sprites as well.

    By the way MoDule, what do mean by the air speed cap? I looked in the wiki and it only gave info on the Sonic 1 speed cap.
     
  16. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    E-122-Psi: Sonic 1's speed cap is enforced on both the ground and in mid-air: if you're running faster than the speed cap and you press in the same direction (e.g. you're running right and you press right), Sonic will keep on moving in that direction, but he will instantly slow down to the speed set by the speed cap.
    In Sonic 2, if you are running on the ground and you are faster than the speed cap, holding down the direction on your joypad won't slow you down; however, if you're not on the ground, the aerial speed cap will kick in, slowing you down again.
    In Sonic 3 all the speed caps were removed.
     
  17. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=485674:date=Jul 31 2010, 08:49 PM:name=nineko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nineko @ Jul 31 2010, 08:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485674"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->E-122-Psi: Sonic 1's speed cap is enforced on both the ground and in mid-air: if you're running faster than the speed cap and you press in the same direction (e.g. you're running right and you press right), Sonic will keep on moving in that direction, but he will instantly slow down to the speed set by the speed cap.
    In Sonic 2, if you are running on the ground and you are faster than the speed cap, holding down the direction on your joypad won't slow you down; however, if you're not on the ground, the aerial speed cap will kick in, slowing you down again.
    In Sonic 3 all the speed caps were removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I see. From what I know however, the wiki only has a tutorial to fix Sonic 1, unless Sonic 2's is similar enough to not need one of it's own.

    Thanx for you and the others making me a wiki profile by the way. :)
     
  18. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    4,842
    43
    28
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    <!--quoteo(post=486564:date=Aug 3 2010, 04:35 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Aug 3 2010, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=486564"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see. From what I know however, the wiki only has a tutorial to fix Sonic 1, unless Sonic 2's is similar enough to not need one of it's own.

    Thanx for you and the others making me a wiki profile by the way. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The speedcap in Sonic 2 is exactly the same as Sonic 1, except it's not in effect when Sonic is on the ground. So, it's doing pretty much exactly the same thing; it's just that Sonic 2 has half of it already done for you.
     
  19. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    1,897
    69
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=486574:date=Aug 3 2010, 11:22 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Aug 3 2010, 11:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=486574"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=486564:date=Aug 3 2010, 04:35 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Aug 3 2010, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=486564"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see. From what I know however, the wiki only has a tutorial to fix Sonic 1, unless Sonic 2's is similar enough to not need one of it's own.

    Thanx for you and the others making me a wiki profile by the way. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The speedcap in Sonic 1 is exactly the same as Sonic 1, except it's not in effect when Sonic is on the ground. So, it's doing pretty much exactly the same thing; it's just that Sonic 2 has half of it already done for you.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I checked the coding for both Sonic 1 and 2's air speed cap, they are similar though there are certainly enough deviations that make using the Sonic 1 tutorials method questionable. The lines marked to place the new coding on are not the same for example, nor does there seem a similar equivelant.
     
  20. Ralbalboa

    Ralbalboa

    Member
    26
    0
    1
    Amazing hack, as all of yours, always. Out of topic: what happened to your Sally Hack? I remember you mentioned you've fixed the intro screen with help from MarkeyJester (I think) but never saw the playable version. Will you be releasing a last version, at least the last things you've done? Still thinking on working on it? Your Amy's series are great, but the Sally one, your first, is my favourite. Keep this great work, you still amaze us all the time. Thank you.