About the "Eiosian Spheres" from Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Markgilst, Nov 1, 2009.

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  1. Mr. Fox

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    Doesn't seem to be very similar to me. But nice theory nonetheless.
    <img src="http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/315/valdi1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/517/valdi2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4104/valdi3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <!--quoteo(post=368513:date=Nov 1 2009, 09:32 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 1 2009, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368513"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ristar is based on the engine used for Sonic, right? I'm guessing it's based off the version from Sonic 3?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, it was Sonic 1's engine.
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most significant link between Ristar and Sonic is the fact that Ristar was built on the Sonic 1 engine, including the level engine and music engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Ristar#Connections_with_Sonic" target="_blank">http://info.sonicretro.org/Ristar#Connections_with_Sonic</a>
     
  2. muteKi

    muteKi

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    You know, a lot of games for the Genesis use modular spheres with multiple sizes. I believe Contra: Hard Corps has a boss like that. I know Dynamite Headdy has one, as does Gunstar Heroes.


    Furthermore, they're all probably a lot more similar to the spheres as they are in the Sonic 3 debug -- these don't even really scale in/out, instead only the distance between the sprites changes. There's a lot of more similar sphere stuff out there than that. In fact, so much so that trying to make a connection here primarily seems almost absurd to me.
     
  3. Jayenkai

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    Vectorballs were all over the place in the late 80/s, early 90/s. Nothing special.
     
  4. Ross-Irving

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    Even if this theory was true, I don't see why we need to talk about what to call the spheres. <I>Who cares?</I> I wouldn't care if someone called them Wonka Balls or whatever the heck they feel like calling it. Why does this forum argue semantics to some degree so often? This is coming from a guy who reads the dictionary to learn new words and to make distinctions between words like "icon" and "symbol" or "careless" and "thoughtless".

    To the topic starter, do you know of any other games by SEGA made in 1993, 1994, 1995 or even 1996 that has these kind of sphere things? Maybe then we can start to create a coherent, arguable theory.
     
  5. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

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    <!--quoteo(post=368562:date=Nov 1 2009, 08:07 PM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Nov 1 2009, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368562"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, a lot of games for the Genesis use modular spheres with multiple sizes. I believe Contra: Hard Corps has a boss like that. I know Dynamite Headdy has one, as does Gunstar Heroes.


    Furthermore, they're all probably a lot more similar to the spheres as they are in the Sonic 3 debug -- these don't even really scale in/out, instead only the distance between the sprites changes. There's a lot of more similar sphere stuff out there than that. In fact, so much so that trying to make a connection here primarily seems almost absurd to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Don't forget Vectorman!
     
  6. Phos

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
     
  7. Mr. Fox

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    <!--quoteo(post=368839:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368839"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I provided a quote from the wiki, in case you haven't noticed.
     
  8. Xkeeper

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    <!--quoteo(post=368633:date=Nov 1 2009, 03:12 PM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Nov 1 2009, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368633"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if this theory was true, I don't see why we need to talk about what to call the spheres. <I>Who cares?</I> I wouldn't care if someone called them Wonka Balls<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Everlasting gobstoppers? :v:
     
  9. Epsilonsama

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    <!--quoteo(post=368850:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM:name=Tadashi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tadashi @ Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368850"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368839:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368839"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I provided a quote from the wiki, in case you haven't noticed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay this seems werid, why would Ristar instead of using a more advance engine like the Sonic 3 engine would be using and old engine by that time?
     
  10. Maxd

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    <!--quoteo(post=368879:date=Nov 2 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Epsilonsama)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Epsilonsama @ Nov 2 2009, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368879"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368850:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM:name=Tadashi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tadashi @ Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368850"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368839:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368839"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I provided a quote from the wiki, in case you haven't noticed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay this seems werid, why would Ristar instead of using a more advance engine like the Sonic 3 engine would be using and old engine by that time?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because S3 was so complex. It has many perks but quirks often outweighed them for some hacking. Just now, 16 years after release we get a S3K disassebmly. It's that complex, and one helluva a dog to comment out, as compared to Sonic 1.
     
  11. BlackHole

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    <!--quoteo(post=368882:date=Nov 2 2009, 03:43 PM:name=Maxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Maxd @ Nov 2 2009, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368882"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368879:date=Nov 2 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Epsilonsama)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Epsilonsama @ Nov 2 2009, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368879"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368850:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM:name=Tadashi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tadashi @ Nov 2 2009, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368850"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368839:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368839"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I provided a quote from the wiki, in case you haven't noticed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay this seems werid, why would Ristar instead of using a more advance engine like the Sonic 3 engine would be using and old engine by that time?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because S3 was so complex. It has many perks but quirks often outweighed them for some hacking. Just now, 16 years after release we get a S3K disassebmly. It's that complex, and one helluva a dog to comment out, as compared to Sonic 1.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Then wouldn't Sonic 2's engine be more suited, considering they got into that pretty damn quickly, albeit with access to Sonic 2 Beta?
     
  12. muteKi

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    I assume Ristar's team had more to go by than a raw disassembly.
     
  13. Mr. Mash

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    Ristar uses 256x256 chunks, download the Feel utility and have a play around for yourself.
     
  14. Overlord

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    <!--quoteo(post=368903:date=Nov 2 2009, 05:15 PM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Nov 2 2009, 05:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368903"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume Ristar's team had more to go by than a raw disassembly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Seeing as S1 was written in ASM, it'd just be a better commented disassembly =P
     
  15. Phos

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    <!--quoteo(post=368850:date=Nov 2 2009, 04:03 AM:name=Tadashi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tadashi @ Nov 2 2009, 04:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368850"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=368839:date=Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Nov 2 2009, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=368839"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it was Sonic 1's engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that particular claim could use a citation, especially considering that it looks to me as though Ristar uses 128 x 128 chunks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I provided a quote from the wiki, in case you haven't noticed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What I mean is the wiki could use a citation.

    Regardless, it sounds like it is the Sonic 1 engine, considering the size of the chunks. I suppose it is still simpler than Sonic 2's.
     
  16. JoseTB

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    It <I>seems</I> like it could have been <I>based</I> on the Sonic 1 engine, but - at least as far I know - we cannot assume this is 100% sure.

    Edit: Regarding why, it may have had something to do the fact this engine was the only one fully developed in japan, while in the others (S2, S3) the STI and/or SoA were involved aswell. But that's just a random guess.
     
  17. Hivebrain

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    If someone wants an official name for the spinning spheres, try the labels in Sonic & Knuckles Collection.
     
  18. PsychoSk8r

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    Wait, if Ristar uses the same level engine, and music engine as Sonic 1, Why haven't we seen crossovers there?
    Ristar in GHZ, or Sonic in Ristar's levels?
     
  19. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, if Ristar uses the same level engine, and music engine as Sonic 1, Why haven't we seen crossovers there?
    Ristar in GHZ, or Sonic in Ristar's levels?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/124/ris1bu7.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://www.hacking-cult.org/html/s1_ristar.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />From <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=10157&st=0" target="_blank">here</a>.
     
  20. AeonicB

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    <!--quoteo(post=369335:date=Nov 3 2009, 03:48 PM:name=JakeyBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JakeyBoy @ Nov 3 2009, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369335"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, if Ristar uses the same level engine, and music engine as Sonic 1, Why haven't we seen crossovers there?
    Ristar in GHZ, or Sonic in Ristar's levels?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/124/ris1bu7.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://www.hacking-cult.org/html/s1_ristar.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />From <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=10157&st=0" target="_blank">here</a>.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That... is awesome.

    Unplayable, but completely awesome. =P
     
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