A Question To Those Of You Who Dislike a Certain Character

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Fenrir, May 7, 2017.

  1. Fenrir

    Fenrir

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    This is actually something I've wanted to ask here for quite some time, but haven't really felt the need to. But with this new third character for Forces, I do want to see what you folks think of this.

    So yeah, Sonic's friends, too many of em, they're dumb, yadda yadda. I don't think I need to say much about the stigma anyone outside the main trio faces. Think about your least favorite character in the series, for whatever reason that may be. Gameplay, personality, story, design, whatever. Now imagine that said character was introduced not only in a Sonic game with your preference of playstyle (Classic, Adventure, Boost, whatever.), but was built around that playstyle in a meaningful and fun way, ala Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 3. If this had been the case, do you think you would dislike said character as much as you do?

    It's just something I've tended to notice with a lot of people these days, myself included. I use to detest Amy, she was annoying, one note and a pain to play as in most of her incarnations. But as I went back to the Advance trilogy and found myself trying her out, I kind of grew to love her playstyle in those games, and I started to notice her showing up wasn't nearly as groan-inducing as it use to be, and I've actually become quite fond of how she's handled these days... Though that may be because they've mostly toned down her Sonic obsession. But I digress.

    Then we have characters like Cream and Blaze, who I barely ever see grouped up in the "dumb Sonic characters" mindset. They were both introduced in games that didn't sacrifice the formula for them, and were simply just fun extra ways to play through the game again. So I really began thinking about if other characters I dislike would be able to earn my respect a bit more if they were handled in ways that didn't completely change the game, or just glorified reskins.

    So again, I ask: If a character you dislike were to have been worked into an ACTUAL Sonic game/your preferred style, do you think you'd take it easier on them? Do you think those outside the deeper fanbase wouldn't give Sonic's friends as much flack?
     
  2. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I only have 1 recurring character I truly dislike, as opposed to just being indifferent to. That would be Big the Cat. He's been playable in a non-spinoff game exactly once, and his playstyle was randomly tacked-on fishing. Amy and Gamma kind of worked in Adventure because they still were ultimately platforming playstyles. Big was just fishing with tiny bits of platforming in between, and he was quite awkward to control while doing so. Also his voice is so obnoxious. I'm not sure he could be used in a Sonic-like gameplay style at all.
     
  3. Ritz

    Ritz

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    Sonic is, remarkably, the only franchise I can think of where "too many characters" is an actual complaint. You don't see people bitching about Marvel Vs. Capcom because they made MODOK playable, they just don't play him and move on. People love having options and variations on a core theme. Post-Chaotix, characters haven't been optional, and they seldom qualify as variations, either.

    I'd be surprised if a single person here objected to the inclusion of additional characters that played like Sonic with different properties and abilities.
     
  4. I don't hate most of Sonic's friends, but the trouble is up to the point of Sonic 2006, extra characters weren't optional.
    Adventure - complete all 6 stories to unlock the Super Sonic chapter
    Adventure 2 - complete Hero and Dark stories to unlock Last Story.
    Heroes - complete the game as 4 very similar teams of characters to get the last story.
    Sonic 2006 - were you enjoying playing the game as the main hedgehog you were playing? No! GREAT! here is a segment where you can play as a character we barely started. Plus the rule of complete the main stories and get the final applies here. (sorry. Sonic 2006 is why I cant play as Knux anymore. and im still bitter about it)

    Trouble is with pretty much all of those games, they hadn't even gotten Sonic right (purely in terms of movement and handling and abilities)so how can they get flying Sonic right? Even now you got the feeling that because there are so many varieties of Sonic fan they don't know where to go with the series and thusly don't know where to go with Sonic himself let alone Sonic's friendly rival's possible bit on the side slash rival.

    I do think if the Sonic games hadn't fallen off a cliff in terms of quality, it would be just a sort of minor note in most people's eyes. "Ugh... Sonic's chucklefuck friends are in the story again but still 8.25/10".
     
  5. Despatche

    Despatche

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    A lot of Sonic memes, such as the "shitty friends" one this topic is about, largely come from reactions to specific games. Really, the vast majority of the Sonic fanbase as we know it is a reaction to Sonic 06. A lot of these people should read the comics.

    The idea that Sonic Team is getting "mixed up" trying to cater to everyone does not mesh at all with the games we're getting. Sonic Team is very focused and very careful about the games they make, which is why they only make one every so often and it's based around a very specific idea. The Sonic Cycle doesn't really exist, and I have no idea why people cling to it so much. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy at best, and a secret desire to see the series disappear forever at worst.

    It's actually kinda depressing that we now have people talking about Sonic Team getting "mixed up" like this while also demanding a new Adventure-type game. For better or worse, you won't see anything like Adventure ever again.
     
  6. Dee Liteyears

    Dee Liteyears

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    I'd say Shadow and Silver. The first for his in-your-face edgyness and the second for "Oh great! Yet another recolored hedgehog" in the game that was the game it was. Though, I warmed up a bit with them, due to StC-O's portrayal of them.
     
  7. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    Okay, not only is this highly subjective and arguably incorrect given all of the information we have had regarding the series since the 06 fallout, but has nothing to do with the topic at hand. There's a thread for this y'know?

    Anyway, I'd say that I actually don't dislike any character in the franchise so far (maybe Silver, but only because the concept is really stupid. Even for Sonic). What I do dislike is the absolute mismanagement of them. I feel like the cast would be stronger, and much more accepted by the masses if Sonic Team had been better at keeping each in their "lane". Where as before characters were brought in either to help expand Sonic's world, or serve a genuine purpose to the game, they sort of just introduce new characters because they have an idea and can't use it for Sonic because it won't fit. And the good ones they come up with are often detached from the main series, and so they get shoehorned in. Like Cream and Blaze, or the Chaotix. I think with better character management like you said Fenrir, the "Sonic's shitty friends" thing wouldn't be such a problem.
     
  8. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    If Silver played like the rival boss from Generations I'd actually probably love Silver. He seems like a fun character that they just bombed with completely. Blaze is another character that had potential but they just kinda stopped with her, don't know why. Other than that though I'm not sure. I don't hate some of the newer characters I just don't care about them, certainly didn't care for how they played, and design wise there was a lot of eh (that being said, I actually prefer the Chaotix post redesign).
     
  9. Lozicle

    Lozicle

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    I'm not sure if this would work so well with the Deadly Six.
     
  10. Fenrir

    Fenrir

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    I said characters, not cardboard TV Tropes stereotypes.

    :v:
     
  11. Felik

    Felik

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    Well, that sorts out about 90% of them.
     
  12. Dissident

    Dissident

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    Shadow sucks and I prefer he have stayed dead as a good one-off character to be honest. I can't see myself liking him again.
     
  13. LowSeasCaroz

    LowSeasCaroz

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    I am... genuinely surprised no one has mentioned Marine the Raccoon from Rush Adventure yet.
    She's the prime example of "Sonic's shitty friends".
    Marine is annoying. She does nothing meaningful in the story, she just gets in the way of Sonic (by running off and getting herself into dangerous situations) and builds vehicles, a role Tails could have very easily been assigned to. The meaningless dialogues between her and the main characters just bring the game to a complete halt whenever you're about to play a new level (aka. the fun part of the game). She constantly speaks in a stereotypical phoney Aussie accent that gets old by the second level. You don't play as her, but she still follows the main characters around like a more useless Amy Rose.
    And worst of all, she is just in Rush Adventure for the sake of having a new character to introduce a new game, because that's just how Sega wanted it back then.
    Unlike Silver or even Big, there is nothing redeemable or funny about her. Even the character design is lame.
     
  14. Atendega

    Atendega

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    I fucking love Marine, she's irritating in an adorable sort of way, and her stereotypical Australian nonsense amuses me.

    In fact, I love every damned Sonic character there is. It's how they're used that makes or breaks them. The characters themselves are all great, with the obvious exception of shit like the Deadly Six. Post-reboot Archie demonstrates this excellently by handing them all to a writer with actual skill who clearly actually cares about the characters.

    If their gameplay sucks or their characterization is shitty, that doesn't make the character bad. That makes their portrayal bad.

    + - Please, for fuck's sake SEGA, hire Ian Flynn and never ever use anyone else ever again.  
     
  15. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I think even Sega forgot about Marine, and with good reason. She was useless and didn't do anything (except tossed a bubble at the Eggmen? Is that what happened? They never explain that). There's very little, if anything, redeemable about her character. Hell Sticks has more appeal.

    That being said, Archie did a pretty good job with Marine, but then again Flynn made even the worst or least memorable characters fun. I'd love to see team hooligan in a game with Flynn's representation of them. Sonic could use more villain characters, even if they only serve as subbosses.
     
  16. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I dunno, there was still some I think Flynn never quite got the hang of, he has his preferred character archetypes. I mean he made a lot of them more tolerable, sure, but that didn't mean he made them interesting or compelling. I don't think he ever really got the hang of the SatAm Freedom Fighters for example, they always felt kind of bland under his pen (though even SatAm itself only did so much with most of them, they seem to be a hard lot to get right).

    I agree that I wouldn't mind more non-Eggman villains, especially ones that aren't just generic sci-fi demi gods. This is why I can never really consider the Deadly Six poor characters (though in fairness, as one note as they were, they didn't seem THAT bad).
     
  17. Burezu

    Burezu

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    I was going to say I don't actively dislike any Sonic characters... until this thread reminded me of the Deadly Six. What an awful, awful idea. Granted you never play as them, and I didn't make them, so whatever I guess. Sticks comes to mind as a character I'm not huge on, but I'm not entirely sure you play her in a game since I haven't played the two 3DS Sonic Boom games. At the end of the day I guess I'd just like more out of Silver or Sticks. Silver could be a lot of fun if his segments were Adventure speed, but having some *fast* quick-time actions that pull platforms out in front of you, ala psychic powers. Or instead of a homing attack, he just throws enemies against a wall clearing a path for more speed. While I don't believe all Sonic games should just be about breakneck speeds with zero-to-no platforming slow downs, constant movement (or at least feeling of) should at least be the consistent idea. Just don't have them stop on a stupid green circle on the ground for ten seconds while you load more platforms.

    With Sticks, I guess using her in a similar way we've seen OC the Character from Forces play could be fun. Or just dropping her in a trash bin for Flynn to fix.
     
  18. rebelcheese

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    Blaze is associated with Silver and Sega would like to forget about Sonic '06 so Blaze is paying the price along with Silver. It didn't help that Sonic '06 being a garbage pile probably influenced Sonic Rush Adventure's lack of sales, which was the fatal blow to Blaze ever making it to the top pantheon of Sonic's friends.

    Silver would be interesting if they brought him back with a new backstory and motivations, perhaps even made him a true villain as opposed to Shadow's anti-hero path. Or, alternatively, make Silver more of a Knight Templar type, the hero that goes too far in pursuit of noble goals (which is kinda what he was in '06, just... Done really poorly).

    I think Silver and Blaze both could succeed as characters still. Hell I want to do a fangame with Blaze and Silver front and center just to prove a point. They need another chance, it's been over a decade since Sonic '06, stop letting that mistake bind you, Sega.
     
  19. heeheehippo

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    personally, I'm kinda into characters fitting thematically as well as functioning properly. what i mean is, if shadow the hedgehog were to be put in a fun game (let's say, MANIA), i would want his presence to be explained rather than him being thrown in there "just for kicks." i see a lot of people ask for amy or shadow or silver etc in a "classic" sonic game without thinking about why they would be there in the first place. i know it seems somewhat silly, but if it doesn't make any sense than it really detracts my liking to them.

    it doesn't even have to be very deep. if the explanation for shadow being in mania was "this timeline is in an alternate dimension where eggman just creates a black sonic clone," that'd be fine. it works for dragon ball.

    but yeah, they would also have to feel unique and enjoyable to play as. if silver ran fast and curled up into a ball and had flying or floaty or whatever powers that were actually a fun and unique spin on sonic's abilities (like tails and knuckles), then sure, why not? i already like "dreams of an absolution" so it wouldn't take much to suade me.

    and not that i currently hate shadow and / or silver. i just don't like their reasons for existing in sonic's universe. that being an ancient creation designed by eggman's super relative to be the "ultimate life form" (which is just sonic??? a character that doesn't exist in gerald's time period??????) and "i existed in a game that retconned itself but i can't disappoint all of my fans," respectively.
     
  20. Whimsicott

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    I don't really hate any members of the cast (even Big, despite how annoying the fishing mechanics were in Adventure), though it it's someone I dislike it's got to be Sticks. Her design and idea are unique, but her character most of the time is just freaking out over the same conspiracy stuff every time something goes wrong. Though I think this is moreso just poor use of the character, since even she has some good moments.