3DS Sonic game engine

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by WhoIAm, Jul 25, 2015.

  1. WhoIAm

    WhoIAm

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    I read the analysis of Lost World for Wii U, about how it was handled by a smaller team and used a watered-down version of the Hedgehog Engine. That was really interesting, but here's something I've always wondered about.

    Has anyone researched the engine(s) Dimps created for their 3DS Sonic games? That means the portable Generations and Lost World.

    I suspect that Lost World might be using the same engine as Generations, but that's just a gut instinct based on certain similarities between the two (like the billboarded rings and horrible draw distance >.<). I'm no technical wizard but I'd really appreciate an in-depth description of those games and how they work. Everyone hates them so much but I really like Generations on 3DS, and Lost World 3DS is awful but ambitious. Plus, is there any hacking potential?

    Bonus points if anyone know anything about the Shattered Crystal engine, but I suspect nobody cares :P
     
  2. I have to admit, this subject interests me as well. The Generations 3DS engine had more accurate classic physics IMO, which is a surprise for the current day Dimps. The only problem I really have with the game is the choice of levels (no Game Gear? come on,) and the length of the game. It was too short! As for Lost World, I thought the physics were pretty good, but I just couldn't bring myself to actually complete the game. That one snow level is way too frustrating.

    I know that besides Shattered Crystal, Sanzaru developed Sly 4 and ported the original trilogy to the PS3. I thought Sly 4 was a very good game, so it's obvious that they are a good development studio. Shattered Crystal wasn't awful, but it's not like it's a great game or anything. What I wonder is if they have a B team, similar to how Sonic Chronicles was developed by Bioware's B team. It would be really cool to find this stuff out and shed some light on the subject.
     
  3. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Just from the way the games feel, I'm pretty certain that Dimps have been using the same engine for all of their Sonic games (bar Unleashed Wii) since Rush, if not before, and have basically just made it a little bit worse each time. Sonic always has an incredibly strange weight to him in their games, feeling both weightless and heavy at the same time. Jumping is always off, especially with their disastrous attempt at 3D in Lost World. But the biggest giveaway at a surface level is how he reacts to slopes. He can tackle them at low speeds or stand on them more easily than he should be able to with the gradient having virtually no effect on him.

    And suddenly I'm reminded of how S4E1 was "built from the ground up", despite obviously being a modified version of Rush. And then they tried to pull the same schtick with E2 claiming it was a "new engine". Lol sure. I'm not very savvy of the technical side of things at all, but jfc.
     
  4. NoNameAtAll

    NoNameAtAll

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    Let it be a reminder that the Hedgehog Engine is a lighting engine and not a gameplay engine, savvy? I'm not exactly a techie myself, but someone can explain it far better than I can.

    But my first sentence stands.
     
  5. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    This is true, but I also think it was confirmed somewhere in the hacking thread that Lost World does indeed use the Hedgehog Engine, just with a ton of lighting and particle effects disabled because, well, Wii U.
     
  6. Felik

    Felik

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    I may be wrong I don't remember SEGA/Dimps saying that Sonic 4 ep1 had a completely new engine built from scratch. And I'm pretty sure they explicitly said that ep 2 uses modified ep 1 engine.
     
  7. big smile

    big smile

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    Didn't Taxman once tweet that Sonic 4 Episode II was using a modified version of the 3DS Generations engine? I remember see that (I could be wrong) but can't find the tweet online anymore.
     
  8. WhoIAm

    WhoIAm

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    Episode 1 was definitely built off of Rush, I got a giant shot of Sonic's iOS model as seen here: http://imgur.com/kEXIIeL

    Ah, back in the day when Sega thought classic Sonic = 2D gameplay and nothing else. Generations had similar issues early in development, BOTH the 3DS and console versions, funnily enough. They were at least kind enough to fix it there.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Episode 2 really did use a new engine, at least for its graphics. Episode 1 relies heavily on 2D graphics. Only Sonic, enemies, and certain level objects are models, just like in the DS games. On the other hand, Episode 2 uses 3D models for practically everything including stage geometry. There are also a lot of cool lighting effects and 3D gimmicks.

    It would be really interesting if Episode 2 really DID use the Gen3DS engine...that concept sounds strangely familiar. Do you know, I might have seen that same tweet once, but that's in the distant past. If Taxman really did say that, then he would seem to know all about the 3DS games.

    Speaking of Generations 3DS, I made a little page over at TCRF documenting the changes between the game's initial unveiling at E3 2011 to its release: TCRF

    Yep, I read about it right here on Sonic Retro. Lost World U uses a very simplified version of the Hedgehog Engine. A little annoying considering the 360/PS3 could handle the real deal and by common sense the Wii U should as well. But smaller development team etc., I guess. And that's why I'm so interested in how Dimps got the game on 3DS, since (in my eyes) it's by far the more ambitious and impressive game. Its graphics are quite incredible for a 3DS game. True, I had to force myself to finish it, but there's so much potential in that mysterious little engine :(/>/>/>

    I also read that Sonic Colors (Wii) used the Storybook engine? Is this true?
     
  9. I think they disabled some lighting and particle effects to get 60 fps on Wii U. With all the lighting and particle effects enabled I don't think it's possible to get 60 fps. That's why Sonic Generations on PS3 and Xbox 360 runs at 30 fps.
     
  10. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    0:12 - "Built from the ground up"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxwdVwtbnHM

    Literally all it took was three seconds of footage for everyone to recognise it as Rush.

    Here's Iizuka saying the same thing:
    "Built from the ground-up" are pretty meaningless, if not out-right misleading, buzzwords.

    And the E2 product description:
    And just if that's not enough, here's Ken Balough revealing E2. Go to 1:55 for the "brand new physics engine".

    Again, I can't really talk about the technical things because they're not my forté. But I can say with a fair degree of confidence that every 2D Dimps Sonic game from Rush onwards and Lost World 3DS run along the the same framework. Modifications are being made each time to better suit each game, but it's still the same engine. Generations 3DS Classic got pretty close to the MegaDrive games. Even if the rolling was still shit and there were some other oddities, it's better than any other attempt post-Advance 1 (including Generations HD). Makes me wonder how accurate they could theoretically make it. But the fact that they've been using it for so long also makes me wonder why they haven't done something new already. Especially for when they decided to make a full 3D game...

    I recall hearing something similar to this as well. It would make sense to build one game off the previous one. Heck, it's what they've been doing all this time.
     
  11. Felik

    Felik

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    OK, point taken.