Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: Midway the Echidna - Viewing Profile - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

I couldn't help but notice Nights Into Dreams is listed as having a download size of only 3KB. I feel the urge to pay $15 just to see what will happen when I try to download and play it.

On the related subject, to think I thought I got a good deal buying Sonic Generations off of Steam- I feel silly now, and I already own 3 copies of Sonic Adventure (XBLA + DC + GCN ) and SA2B on Gamecube, but the allure of Crazy Taxi, Nights into Dreams, and Jet Grind Radio for only $5 a piece. It's a very tempting offer if but for the chance to relive the golden age of American culture: the late 90s. I'm only surprised Neversoft didn't make a faithful remake of its Dreamcast game- Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD turned out to be pretty disappointing.

Nonetheless, I would say you should totally go for it- Nights into Dreams is amazing on so many levels. My friend who lives down the hall has a Sega Saturn, and we have far more than $15 worth of fun playing that game. Buy it, and you won't regret it!

Aesculapius Piranha, on 21 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

I apologize for using such subjective words. We have all beaten the game hundreds of times and tried a speedrun, so we remember the level layouts and boss attack patterns like the backs of our respective hands, so I use the words relatively speaking. Compared to the Sonic playthrough, Tails has a rough time in the first half of the game. The Icecap Act 2 boss in my opinion was the only difficult boss in the first playthrough of Sonic 3. Even to this day, the boss is still difficult to no-damage as Knuckles with no super form because Eggrobo sprays that mist at double speed in a much less predictable pattern, and the only way to reach him with Knuckles' reduced jump is to get on top of the platform extending from the Eggmobile (which wildly moves up and down when playing as Knuckles).

Going back to the relevant topic, the first playthrough as Tails is handily more difficult than the first run as Sonic because you don't get to fight the Marble Garden boss the way it was meant to be fought. The difficulty even surpasses playing as Knuckles due to the relative ease of obtaining emeralds. Heck, Knuckles has 3 additional special rings in Mushroom Hill (not sure if the third one is S/T-accessible). You can get Super Knuckles by the end of Hydrocity Act 2 and coast through the other four zones of Sonic 3, and given the ease of abusing the orbiting sphere bonus stage to get rings- for some reason, the payoff of ring orbs increases exponentially with the 4th orb grabbed containing over 100 rings- I can't emphasize enough how easy it is to breeze through the game after gaining the super form. As Sonic or Knuckles, you essentially get four zones of unpunished reckless behavior followed by a brief (albeit tedious) scavenger hunt in the easy Mushroom Hill Zone followed by 5 zones of more unpunished reckless behavior just sucks the danger out of the game. It actually makes the "bad ending" playthroughs a little more fulfilling to overcome danger in every level and play the game free from the distraction of having to scour every platform and secret tunnel of every level for special rings.

Summary: You're right- I used the terms "skill" and "difficult" a little too gratuitously. We agree that the game offers no challenge when you have access to a super form and 50 rings are way easier to obtain and maintain than in Sonic 2.

By the way, does it seem a little easier to control Super Sonic in S3K than in S2? I think it might be the relative scarcity of bottomless pits and crushing hazards in S3K biasing my judgements, but Super Sonic was a real liability starting with the Mystic Cave pit all the way through the narrow moving platforms of Wing Fortress...

Aesculapius Piranha, on 21 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yeah, the Flickies are really OP, but Tails can only achieve an all-powerful transformation if you lock Sonic 3 to S&K and obtain all 14 emeralds. You have to go through a lot of trouble to get Super Tails, and you can't get him any sooner than Mushroom Hill Act 2. By the time you have that kind of power, most of the game is over, and you've developed a considerable amount of skill by surviving the Marble Garden Act 2 and Icecap Act 2 bosses with no super form. Marble Garden as Tails alone is a lot harder because you can't just jump on Robotnik; you can only hit Robotnik by thrusting at his bottom.

Knux13, on 20 March 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Agreed! I forgot that the Hydrocity Act 2 boss doesn't dip down onto the surface of the water as Knuckles. I guess the lower jump height gives you a smaller window of timing to jump on the vortex Eggrobo created trying to suck you into the propeller. To be honest, I never really bothered trying to use the depth charges to boost myself into Eggrobo in Hydrocity back when I was 7- I just jumped on the swirling vortex. In Sonic's defense, he has to go through Death Egg Zone- the Act 1 boss was the most vicious boss fight in the Genesis four in its second form.

I'm out of luck trying to find the datapath myself. I talked over the idea of drawing the Motorola 68k processor in IRC, but Gerbilsoft said it would take forever- start smaller. I'd be cool with working on diagramming the datapath in Logisim, but right now I just want to try my hand with diagramming the Z80 first. Even the Z80 is a lot harder to illustrate than the LC3 (it's designed just for the purposes of teaching computer hardware, so I guess it makes sense). I currently own a textbook about the Motorola 68k that I got for $8 on amazon, and I can share some information in PM if you think it will help.

By the way, I just found a diagram Nemesis posted in another forum last year. This might help you figure out the datapath, and there is some microcode in the conversation to help you on your way.