Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: NickonAquaMagna - Viewing Profile - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

UPDATE


2015 trailer


Any thoughts?


Anyone seen this thread? http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=30356

Well, now it's actually happening. Here's what has been crafted so far by the person who's making this mod inspired by my maps. I must say, I love what they've done so far.

KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE SCREENSHOTS ARE EXTREMELY OUTDATED BY NOW.



Well, that's what it looked like yesterday. Here's how it's been altered since then.



I think I prefer it this way because, as nice as the first view was, I think the second shot more effectively instills a demand for exploration that I see as a key element of good Sonic gameplay. At the beginning, you're on a secluded surf, the idea being that Sonic just woke up here, and you can't actually SEE any of the island past that corner just yet. It's like the game is teasing you, just DARING you to go peek at whatever's around the corner, you know? And then, it suddenly opens up.... I mean, it REALLY opens up. Also lending to the need for exploration, the whole point of which is to look for and FIND things, there will be an easy to spot ring box behind the rock seen to the left in the first screenshot, and another, slightly more well hidden one submerged under that arch to the right. This might not seem like a big deal, but it's just another little thing that contributes to the experience. It's all about TEACHING the player "There's a lot of goodies to find, but you're going to have to go a little out of your way to reach them", easing the player in as things get bigger and more expansive. This isn't about holding a boost button to win, careening down a tube all the way.

Now, don't get the wrong idea. This isn't Green Hill Paradise. I do love that game, as it boasts pretty much everything I've been asking for in a Sonic game over the years.... but at the same time, it lacks direction. That will not be the case with this mod. While there's a lot of places to go to, the player isn't likely to get lost. Right from the get go, you'll be able to see the mountain at the other end of the island (once that part of the island has been built) which should inspire some people's natural desire to scale things like that (I love climbing). I mean, who wasn't drawn to the mountain in bo-bomb field? This is basically the same thing, only made much BIGGER to accommodate someone with Sonic's speed. Even then, no matter which way you go, these paths do all LEAD to somewhere. It isn't linear like, say, the daytime stages, but you're still ultimately advancing from point A to point B as all these paths eventually converge at one point at the other end of the island. You're just strolling from one END of the longer-than-it-is-wide island to the other end. On the way there, though, you can do anything and go anywhere you want, like the whole island is one massive playground. That's the beauty of it.

As for the name, I put a lot of thought into it. The most obvious meaning behind it is... well, Genesis... Exodus... get it? It's supposed to make people who grew up with a Sega Genesis think about that, about the good ol' days, as if this is the natural next step from that. At the same time, it means journey, as in "This is Sonic's journey across the land". Plus, I just think it sounds cool (certainly more inspired than all the "Sonic NEO"s or whatever.

I'm gonna try coming up with an original name for the stage itself, as well. Since the island's most defining trait will be the mountain at the far end of it, I want to call it something like "Aurora Column Zone" or something like that... Yeah, I know, needs work. The same "Sonic Exodus" will stick, though.

First, lemme just say that comments like "blegh, it should only be Sonic. screw everyone else" are completely worthless silencer arguments here and deeply discouraged. We're here to discuss possibilities and encourage innovation, not to shut up anyone who has a different idea.

This thread is something of a continuation of the thread I posted yesterday http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=30048 and since then, we've established that Sega and Sonic Team are utterly incompetent when it comes to developing this sort of thing without it crashing down disastrously. In that case, please don't take these threads TOO seriously. Just forget about whatever Sonic team seems unable to do and let yourselves harmlessly wonder what could've been in the hands of other developers in some alternate reality or whatever. Lastly, I want to make clear that I don't play Sonic games for plot. Gameplay mechanics and level design matter to me more than story elements, but I still felt like talking about such things anyway.

Anyway, moving on... I think the ability to play as other characters was handled the best in SA1. Sure, it was a pain to have to beat the campaigns of all six characters before being able to fight the true final boss, Perfect Chaos, but if someone really can't be compelled to go that far, they could just settle for playing through Sonic's story alone, with the Egg Viper sufficing as a final boss. And even then, the campaigns featuring the other characters were MUCH shorter than Sonic's story. Sonic himself visits almost every single stage, and the other characters range from 3 to 5. It isn't nearly as much of a hassle as some people make it out to be.

Still, SA2, in my opinion, has a VASTLY superior storyline. SA1's storyline was fine, but it mainly centers around things introduced in S3K, making it.... Sonic The Hedgehog 5, I guess. As its own thing, SA2 had a great plot, despite having many elements that I'd usually consider wholly inappropriate for a Sonic game. It did have problems, though. Unlike in SA1, there was no option to JUST play as Sonic or Shadow. The story frequently cut to other characters, which really doesn't bother me much, but it is easily where a lot of people's disdain for Sonic's friends stems from. If they have to play as other characters somewhere down the line, they don't want to be abruptly cockblocked from playing as Sonic because it's totally intrusive.

There's another problem, though. The story HAS to play out this way. In fact, it must be taken further. See, the plot of SA2 doesn't really shine as much as it could when playing through each half of the game separately. They work best when merged, and the entire game plays out in unaltered, chronological order. To see what I'm really getting at, check out this guy's LP of SA2. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=c2dz-Qm5KCY This made me see SA2 in a whole new way. Nothing was jarring or out of place, nothing was confusing or incomplete or sporadic as they sometimes were with the campaigns being separate. This way, SA2's plot plays out with a great pace and feels like a really cool movie at times. Considering how many elements are in this story and the world its in that I think are wholly inappropriate for a Sonic game and may usually put me off (the presence of humans, somewhat more realistic settings stuff like that), just that it holds up DESPITE that is amazing.

This gave me an idea. I believe I may have figured out a good way for the plot of a new Sonic game to play out with the use of other characters while keeping it all optional for those who really just can't be invested in it, while being easily accessible to those who can.

The videogame adaption of Lord of the Rings- Return of the King had an INGENIOUS stage select system. It was basically a tree that started at the very bottom, split apart to follow the sub plots of different characters as they progress along other "branches" of the tree, and eventually, they all re-converged at the final boss. Think of it like SA2's stage select map, except instead of progressing from left to right, we're moving UP.

Something like this may work really well for a Sonic game. Let's imagine Sonic being the core of the story, basically being the "trunk" of this plot tree. All the other characters (perhaps Tails, Knuckles and Amy being on one side, and Shadow, Rouge and Omega being on the other) could be the branches that diverge from this. Let's say you beat a coupla' levels as Sonic and suddenly, a new path has opened up. Now, you can either choose to progress to Sonic's next stage, OR play a stage in Tails' campaign to mix things up! The further you progress along the core storyline, the more options you have and the opportunity to flesh out the story through the actions of supporting characters becomes easier than ever. Sonic himself could have, like, fifteen stages in his campaign, with each of the other characters having three or four in their comparatively shorter stories. However, upon beating a stage as these characters, they become playable in other stages if you want to replay these stages as them without the context of the story getting in the way, with various branching paths made just for them, allowing them to reach things that other characters may not be able to. They could each have their own boss fight, maybe with Sonic having a few more.

Perhaps some characters could even find level up items a la the Adventure games but find themselves unable to use a few of these items. However, maybe another character CAN! Something like this would ENCOURAGE the player to play as the other characters from time to time for the sake of making them all stronger! If there was a Chao garden that all the characters shared, like in SA2, they could each find Chao eggs that other characters wouldn't be able to reach! They could each have their own story that is mostly independent from Sonic's story, while learning about things that he never gets the chance to on his own. They could uncover new layers of Eggman's schemes, letting the player learn intriguing things about the going ons of this world that they would never know if they ONLY played as Sonic. Also, having exactly seven characters could present an oh so convenient way for them each to acquire a chaos emerald and then all of them could meet up at the end of the game. I prefer getting the emeralds via special stages if possible, but if you find the emeralds through the story mode, this may be the way to do it.

The end result may be a final encounter that is only made available if the player plays the ENTIRE game, but Sonic himself could have a satisfying encounter with Robotnik to cap off his own character driven story, with the TRUE final boss only having relevance if the player did go out of their way to learn about this part of the story, otherwise its presence may not make sense. Instead of depriving the player of something, it would just reward them for going the extra mile. Maybe, as a bonus, even a character like Metal Sonic or Mecha Sonic could be made a special unlockable upon beating the game, able to play in everyone's stages and possessing certain abilities from all of them, making a well rounded, all-purpose gameplay style that would make him the ultimate prize for beating the game 100%!

Overall, I think it would be best for Sonic, Shadow and so on to play similarly to how they do in the Adventure games, but with some tweaks. Sonic rolls, Shadow uses his crazy chaos powers to obliterate the opposition, Tails flies like in SA1, Knuckles punches, Rouge kicks, Amy... well, maybe she could run a little faster. Last but not least, I'd like to see Omega play like a faster paced version of Ratchet and Clank, tearing through Eggman's other robots with a shitload of crazy firearms and zooming around like in Heroes.

Perhaps some other time I'll make a thread that goes into greater depth about how these other characters could play, but for now, whatcha' guys think of this idea? I think something like this could easily make it possible to play as other characters without them stealing the spotlight against the player's will or becoming intrusive, instead being something they'd have to welcome, which some, like myself would!

With the advent of 3D gaming, something was made possible that we had yet to see much of in a Sonic game... character development. In the Adventure games, and a few others, we saw some bold new steps taken with certain characters. We saw them pushed in new directions, and who knows where they could wind up if allowed to continue along this path?

Unfortunately, when 06 came around, Sonic Team threw that out the window. It was pretty much the last game that showed any of the characters doing things that could still surprise us. After that, the writers sorta just... gave up and trapped most of these characters in some sort of purgatory where they never change and only appear in a story as fanservice for those who want to see those characters appear in a game, and NOT to actually contribute something inspired or meaningful to the story. They don't really do anything, they're just... THERE.

Characters can't exist in a vacuum where nothing new ever happens to them. They need to grow, they need to change. No, this is not as simple as having a character switch sides or something like that. They have to become something bigger than whatever they used to be, to have a greater presence. I'll give some examples of how certain characters could've developed had the writers not locked them all in this state from which they may never advance.

Tails- In Sonic Adventure, Tails had a lot of potential as a hero, and near the end of his character arc, he manned up and saved the day without any help from Sonic, defeating Eggman in battle. In Sonic Adventure 2, he basically organized the plan to shut down the Eclipse Cannon and became about as competent as we'd ever see him being. In HEROES, THEY TOTALLY THREW THAT OUT THE WINDOW. In that game, he was a nasally, helpless little twerp who was lucky to have his buddies Sonic and Knuckles there to save his tail(s). Sure, he was the strongest character GAMEPLAY wise, once fully leveled up, but in terms of storytelling, all the character development of the Adventure games was undone.

Sure, he's been helpful to varying degrees since then, and we haven't seen any interpretation of him that could be called quite as offensive as that of Heroes after that, but honestly, "threw together a translator thingamabob that never really worked until the final cutscene" seems like a bit of a step down from "made a counterfeit chaos emerald that could shut down a space station and backfire an Earth shattering doomsday weapon", doesn't it? Hell, at the rate he was growing up, HE could be the leader of a freedom fighters-esque team of his own someday.

Amy- When we first see Amy in CD, she's just a dumb little fangirl who's probably heard lots and lots of stories about Sonic and wants to meet him. One day, he just HAPPENS to come her way and she's like "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOMAGEEERRRRDISSOAWNEEEEE~K" and seemingly moments later, Metal Sonic nabs her, and Sonic takes responsibility for endangering her and saves her... though it was mostly her fault. When we see her in Sonic Adventure, she's a little older, a little tougher, a little more independent. She does get nabbed again later on, but with a little help from Gamma, she breaks out and has some wacky adventures of her own. By the time her story arc was over, she'd gone from damsel in distress and ass (is it okay for me to say that here or will I get banned for that?) kisser, to independent butt kicker!

How she could be developed further- Sadly, it was mainly SA2 that really made Amy regress. Sure, she helped near the very end of the game, but for the entire game leading up to her scene with Shadow.... she didn't actually CONTRIBUTE anything to the story. Her role was exactly what we see a lot of in later Sonic games. She was just.... THERE, for the sake of it. At this point, there is NOTHING special about her character. She's just a screechy, annoying little moeblob who follows Sonic around endlessly and is there for no reason other than to cater to weeaboos who think that's all it takes to make a good character. She's been this way for a long while, and may never grow as a character beyond being "kawaii", as if that's a legit character trait. I wanna see her grow MORE independent and tough! I wanna see her on more adventures of her own, actually... you know.... HELPING Sonic! I want her to stop TRYING to woo and impress Sonic, and actually DO something that would give him any reason TO be impressed!

The closest we ever came to seeing this sort of development was... well.... that one scene in 06. You know, the scene where she defends Sonic from Silver. Yeah, her character was still samey throughout the rest of the story, but that one scene was cool. Oh, and her part of the Final stage, where she faced almost impossible odds against overwhelmingly terrifying enemies in one last bid to save the one who inspired her to become this strong was cool too. Too bad it's kinda, you know, NON CANON. Oh, well.

Knuckles- Now, sadly, there just isn't much we can do here. Knuckles' story has pretty much ended. His story was in Sonic 3K, and Sonic Adventure 1, since that resolved a lot of things that started with S3K. I mean come on, the whole game seems to center around the past of his people, the presence of the emeralds, all that stuff. After SA2, what more is there to do with him? He was a cool character in the Adventure games, and Heroes, but as soon as the 4Kids VAs came around, he became a dimwitted lumox who's constantly losing that darn Master Emerald, or just neglecting to watch it entirely, leaving his shrine behind for entire games at a time. He isn't the brightest guy out there, sure, but he isn't downright dumb... or at least, he SHOULDN'T be. Now, he's only there to be "that guy who's dumber than the rest and gets angry and gruff all the time and is funny because of that". How degrading. It's implied that when he goes "out for lunch", he summons Chaos to guard the Master Emerald in his place for a little while, but still...

How he could be developed- Here's an idea- If you want him to leave Angel Island, have there be a REALLY good reason for it. Let's say something terrible happened to it or the Master Emerald itself that rendered the island unable to fly at all anymore? What if it fell in the ocean and there was nothing more he could do about it, and as a result, had to move on, and decided to explore the rest of the world? What if Robotnik or some other villain just obliterated it overnight and Knuckles went on a quest to find whoever's responsible for this? I dunno... there really isn't much that can be done with him, but I'd rather see him go do his own thing than just have him hang around Sonic to make Sonic look smarter by comparison.

Rouge- When she first appeared, there was no telling when she may stab the other characters in the back. She was suspicious. She was a potential threat to be wary of. After a while, though, that was sort of dropped and we never saw that side of her again, unless it was for the sake of weaseling something she wanted out of another character. She still screws them over sometimes, in little ways, but seems to have an understanding with Sonic and co., now. Like so many other characters, she doesn't really ADD anything at this point. She's just there to take up space.

How she could be developed- Why not have her start acting friendlier with Sonic and his friends? Not flirty, I mean acting like she actually kinda... cares. It's the only thing that can really be done with her, now that she isn't an enemy of their's. This could easily be done in little ways. For example, what if she was, for whatever reason, drawn to a character like Tails and became more nurturing and supportive of him? Like, let's say there's a scene where the increasingly competent Tails comes up with a brilliant plan to save the day like he would've in Adventure 2, and she praises him for it, maybe becomes a little protective of him in the field, becoming something of a nanny or a surrogate auntie to him? It may sound incredibly silly, but they could do SOMETHING like that to show some sign that she might genuinely give a crap about Sonic and so on and isn't just using them somehow or waiting to use them. If not that, well, then what is she even doing here?

Robotnik- Robotnik's a great villain. He's actually changed a lot over the years, for better or worse, but at this point, we've pretty much seen everything he can do, unless the writers come up with something bold and new that totally hasn't been seen before.

Here's an idea. Why not make a story that begins with him acting as villainous as usual, maybe terrorizing an island and burning down villages, and taking over with his robots and all the usual stuff, which convinces Sonic that he's up to no good again. However, at some point later in the story, we find out that Robotnik is actually trying to SAVE the world for once. Let's say there's some impending disaster that's totally out of his control and he's desperately trying to stop it from happening, but he doesn't mind burning a few bridges or terrorizing a few people to get the job done, and that you, in trying to stop him, are just putting the world as a whole in trouble. THAT would be interesting.

Sonic- At this point, Sonic's character has grown rather stale. The way he talks and acts just makes him seem like some guy who never quite grew up and is forever stuck in that college fratboy mentality. Basically, he acts like a manchild. Now, regardless of how old he actually IS, that's just how he FEELS. And it's not in that loveable, endearing way that a character like Goku is. It's just an obnoxious, boisterous sort of manchild that SHOULD'VE made his classic self cringe at some point or other in Sonic Generations.

How he... COULD'VE been developed. Had Shadow died for real at the end of SA2, Sonic would be forced to come to grips with the reality that he and his friends are never really safe. Even seemingly unstoppable super-beings like Shadow could be killed at the drop of a hat, and so, Sonic realizes that he can't be so cocky and nonchalant about everything from now on. I'm not saying he has to act dead serious about everything, basically becoming a fusion of himself and Shadow, just.... smarter, and less hammy. It appeared as if Chip was going to to be the catalyst for this in Unleashed, but sadly, subsequent games have made that redundant.

Omega- Now, say what you will, but I actually LIKE Omega as a character. We don't really see them doing much of anything with him, though. There's not much I can say about him, but I would like to see him get his own personalized story arc, in which he's out to prove himself as the greatest of Robotnik's machines, taking down massive bosses and letting out one liners like "It's all garbage" or "Your success is utterly improbable". I'd like to see him eventually break away from this, though, and find his own identity, not to be Gamma's replacement or whatever.

Now, as I alluded to, Sonic 2006 was the last game that had significant character development... at least for some of the characters. Take Shadow's story, for example. We haven't talked about him yet much, have we? He, Rouge and Omega really shined. Rouge's proven loyalty to Shadow, showing that she basically sees him as her best friend, and Omega's loyalty to the both of them was really moving, and they just had a much stronger presence than that of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. By simple comparison, the latter's time together really was just kid's stuff. So, why is that? Because Team Dark actually managed to CONTRIBUTE something new and interesting and MEANINGFUL to the story. You can't just have characters there for the sake of having an appearance and not have them DO anything. They've gotta move forward into bold new territory, find their own path, which WAS happening in 06. It doesn't seem like Shadow's story, Rouge's story, or Omega's story can go anywhere, but that game proved that it could! It showed that there WERE still new things that could be done, that they didn't have to just act the same all the time. ALL the characters should be treated this way, or not even be there at all.

Let's face it, though. 06 is worthless, otherwise. After 06 bombed, they totally gave up on this whole "character development" thing, you know? We may never see these characters grow beyond the confines that have been placed around them, forever locked in this purgatory of nothingness. Whether you like these characters or not is irrelevant. There's more to this than that. There could be SO MUCH MORE.