[MK]

This is quite epic (S&K split)

All the badnik sprites are not loaded, so they are invisible, but are still fully functional.

The level textures are garbled. You can see MHZ's palette change due to this :P Lava Reef 3 plays the HPZ music and crashes when the thing on the ceiling opens up to flash

Knux's music is altered so you can only hear the background beat.

The Knux fight in HPZ is intact, but with no music. Crashes when he runs offscreen

Every zone crashes upon getting to the boss area (due to code trying to be execute from Sonic 3?)

All the S3 levels are enabled in the level select but of course crash when accessed.

So, could this be the first seperate S&K build?

This post has been edited by MK: 26 February 2008 - 03:41 AM

[LocalH]

Actually, I think this is the last build of S3C, even if it's a lockon deal. It still has the S3 title screen and it can't really run without S3 attached. I just did some quick hex searching and apparently the LLLRRRUUU code didn't appear until S&K 0610. I'm off now to see if there was indeed a code there but just different.

Edit: I can't find one with a rudimentary search for bytes that are located around the cheat. However, all of the builds do contain the S3 level select code (UUDDUUUU). I can't remember if this is true for the final or not but I think it is.

Edit2: All the evidence points to S&K not even being developed as a standalone game until S3C was already canceled. The timestamps on the builds suggest that 0525 came after the later S3C build, and the fact that 0525 doesn't boot as S&K when separated while the other ones do. Anyone tried combining the later builds with S3?

Edit3: I just did, seems that all the S&K builds will boot as S3&K, dunno differences. Only 0525 has the different title screen music.

[MK]

So, possible timeframe:

*sometime before 0408*

<Dev1> Ok, so we're going to release Sonic 3 part 1, then Sonic 3 part 2, then a special edition?
<Dev2> Correct
<Dev3> Good, but, we should work on the special edition FIRST, then 'split' it later.
<Dev1> Good idea
<Dev2> Hey, what if Sonic had a gun?
<Dev1&3> ...

*0408*

<Dev1> How's work?
<Dev3> We're doing good, we just need to do Doomsday.
<Dev1> Hm...*idea for Death Egg 3* hey, remove that egg capsule, I have an idea for a prelude to Doomsday
<Dev2> Hey, what if we made a black Sonic?
<Dev1&3> ...

*sometime after 0517 but before 0525*

<Dev0> Good job, but...*memo*
...
<Dev1> Ok, we're canning the special edition.
<Dev3> Aw
<Dev1> So, start work on taking what we have now and splitting it.
<Dev2> *epiphany*

-----

Yeah, it's 4 AM and I'm bored.

[LocalH]

Something else that's interesting: We all know that in final S3, the all emeralds code is 02040506 on the sound test. In the builds up through 0608 the all emeralds code is 02040608. This includes S3C. It doesn't seem to exist after that.

Also, you know how the cheats for S2 still exist in S3? Well, they also exist in S&K builds up through 0608. Yet more evidence that S&K came 100% after S3C was canceled.

[shobiz]

This proto features region lockout:





Also, if the region is set to Japanese PAL (does such a thing even exist?), the game just crashes in an infinite loop displaying nothing.

This post has been edited by shobiz: 26 February 2008 - 05:49 AM

[JoseTB]

LocalH, on Feb 26 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

Edit2: All the evidence points to S&K not even being developed as a standalone game until S3C was already canceled. The timestamps on the builds suggest that 0525 came after the later S3C build, and the fact that 0525 doesn't boot as S&K when separated while the other ones do.

I was thinking exactly this. To me it looks more like S&K 0525 was actually the next build of S3C 0517, that's it, they developed S3C first and it was continued as Sonic & Knuckles with the implementation of the lockon.

[drx]

0525 is NOT Sonic 3C. The S2K 0524 S&K rom is exactly the same as this one. Ergo, it has lockon, ergo, it is S&K/S3B

[MK]

drx, on Feb 26 2008, 10:13 AM, said:

0525 is NOT Sonic 3C. The S2K 0524 S&K rom is exactly the same as this one. Ergo, it has lockon, ergo, it is S&K/S3B

We know, drx. What we mean is, this was probably the earliest version with lockon. If you remove Sonic 3 from the end (if you didn't notice it is seperately there appended to the end), the game has working content, though it is relatively fucked up. So, it's the natural evolution of what USED to be S3C :P

This post has been edited by MK: 26 February 2008 - 10:40 AM

[LocalH]

In other words, they developed S3C, then scrapped it and took what they already had and started work on S3B, firstly implementing the lockon but not rebranding it as S&K or making it work as S&K properly. Once the lockon was working they then started rebranding it for it's eventual release as S&K.

[Kamek]

In Sonic 3C 0517, you can select Knuckles from the save data screen.

However, in S&K 0525, you can NOT select Knuckles from the save data screen -- he is only available in level select.

[Overlord]

Overlord, on Feb 25 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Tweaker, can you get a VGM of the alt title music as well?

Ba bump. If we're logging differences, this'll come in useful later =P

[JoseTB]

Kamek, on Feb 26 2008, 08:15 PM, said:

In Sonic 3C 0517, you can select Knuckles from the save data screen.

However, in S&K 0525, you can NOT select Knuckles from the save data screen -- he is only available in level select.

Nice eye. This is quite interesting, maybe they didn't build S3B from C after all.

[drx]

JoseTB, on Feb 26 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

Kamek, on Feb 26 2008, 08:15 PM, said:

In Sonic 3C 0517, you can select Knuckles from the save data screen.

However, in S&K 0525, you can NOT select Knuckles from the save data screen -- he is only available in level select.

Nice eye. This is quite interesting, maybe they didn't build S3B from C after all.

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday. Weird stuff.

[MK]

They most assuredly did. Note that it is heavily dependant on Sonic 3 (which is final), so I have a feeling the character selection mappings were taken from Sonic 3, and were not 'split' yet, as with the code for bosses and etc.

[ComPro]

How much "Sonic and Knuckles" code is actually present within the Sonic 3 Final ROM?

Splitting S3 away from the 0525 proto shows that it's the final release, and since the version of S&K depends so much on S3, just how much data needed for S&K is actually present in S3 Final?