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3D Sonic fangame engine test Mark The Echidna and Damizean show 'em how it's done

#31 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:23 PM

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It doesn't seem to do anything except remove the shader effect from the water.

EDIT: Got it fixed. Apparently my Media Pro Keyboard isn't 100% compatible, but my laptop keyboard works well enough.
This post has been edited by The 無敵: 28 January 2008 - 08:20 PM

#32 User is offline nineko 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:28 PM

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View PostQuexinos, on Jan 28 2008, 09:31 AM, said:

I do like it but I want to jump the "This needs to be able to be controlled by the arrow keys" bandwagon. I just can't handle it with AWSD or whatever.
Agreed.

#33 User is offline SoNick 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:57 PM

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Guys, seriously?
WSAD has been standard FPS control for ages. You're many years behind if you're complaining about it now.

That being said, even going straight from Garry's Mod to this demo the controls took a bit of getting used to; I had trouble controlling the camera while moving.
In addition, I'd strongly prefer analog joystick-style movement, but I didn't bother plugging in my X-Box 360 controller and trying it, so I don't know whether it's already included or not.

That's not to say that I didn't have fun!
It just took me a bit to get adjusted to moving the camera.
Perhaps some sort of setup with a dual-joystick control, with the left joystick controlling movement and the right one controlling the camera would be optimal?
I've seen it done quite nicely in other games, and I think it could work in this one as well.
This post has been edited by SoNick: 28 January 2008 - 06:58 PM

#34 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:59 PM

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I really love that 3D model, but there's something wierd about the animations... =|

View PostQuexinos, on Jan 28 2008, 04:32 AM, said:

When you have the camera right behind SOnic and it follows him through the loop and you're upside down with him, that is badass. That's how I expected loops to be in Sonic 3D

Yeah, and it makes going through the loops actually possible without the auto-boosts from the official 3D Sonics (although it would be a little easier if they were bigger like in Sonic R)... I wish SEGA would have thought of this for Sonic Adventure and the following games.



The first time I pressed F2 and went through a loop I was like HAHAWOWOMFG.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 28 January 2008 - 07:02 PM

#35 User is offline Quexinos 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:12 PM

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View PostSoNick, on Jan 28 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

Guys, seriously?
WSAD has been standard FPS control for ages. You're many years behind if you're complaining about it now

I haven't played any First Person Shooters and a Sonic game is NOT a First Person Shooter

It took some getting used to but I did get the hang of it. Once the camera gets all set I think this game will blow Sonic team out of the water
I just hope it doesn't end up on the sidelines like most great fan games.

EDIT
maybe they should just make configurable controls. You never know, with their luck someone will be using a dvorak keyboard or something:
http://www.theworldo...rak/dvorak2.gif
This post has been edited by Quexinos: 28 January 2008 - 08:15 PM

#36 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:22 PM

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Yeah, and first person shooters only use ASDW because the right hand is likely using the mouse to aim and shoot; it's quite a reach with the left hand to use the arrow keys. As I said before, I think it would work better with arrow controls or customizable ones.
This post has been edited by The 無敵: 28 January 2008 - 08:22 PM

#37 User is offline Sik 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:28 PM

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You all must surrender to vomit mode (F2) :P

Anyways, Damizean tried to port GFz1 from SRB2 to the engine. Obviously he did it by hand because he missed a lot of details and I don't talk about missing FOFs but really wrong areas. And he added a slope. But there he failed miserably >_> Now, what would happen if SRB2 gets ported to this engine? (this question goes to Bibin mainly)

#38 User is offline Quexinos 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:30 PM

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I have all ready surrendered to vomit mode =D

#39 User is offline Sik 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:58 PM

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Oh, I just reread the topic, and I think you're all missing the updates o_o' There's a newer version with customizable controls. Not the nicest way, but you can do it, and the gamepad now works (except for POV, which forces me to not use the digital controls).

#40 User is offline Quexinos 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 09:00 PM

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yeah just got it, not quite sure how to customize stuff though

don't yell at me I got it
This post has been edited by Quexinos: 28 January 2008 - 09:03 PM

#41 User is offline DimensionWarped 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 09:32 PM

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Pardon, but if its all the same to you guys, I'd like to clarify a few things...

First, don't get me wrong, I'm not very involved in this project (just pitching occasional art resources actually), but I am seeing some general misconceptions about what they are trying to do here.

I'd also like to clarify that Dami didn't start this project nor was it his idea to use Blitz 3D. That was Mark. So (this is particularly directed at Sik) don't try to fault him for lazy programming. If anything, he's the opposite. What he did basically was taking Mark's engine and restructuring it to make the player management more sensible along with making a number of other corrections.

Moving on, I have to explain to you all... this isn't really anywhere near more than a proof of concept yet. All that's really meant to be going on here at the given moment is a dynamic engine for the various slope mechanics common to 2D Sonic games in a 3D environment. Certainly features are being added, but the point is, nothing in here should be taken at more than face value. Hell, it was first shown in a chatroom. Dami wouldn't even have posted it really had no one expressed a desire to play around with it.

The camera, which I see is a topic of much complaint, wasn't even really made by these guys. Its a stock set of camera control methods that is included in Blitz meant for FPSs really. Again, its all just meant to be part of a proof of concept.

Anyway, in the meantime, don't take this as anything more really than a demonstration of a method for player movement. that's the big thing on showcase here.

EDIT:

One last thing, please don't treat this like its some kind of game that competes with SEGA's products. There is nothing that annoys me more than people looking at an early engine concept and turning around and saying crap like "oh, now that's how its done!" as if SEGA's stuff were worse. This isn't productive and inspires nothing but hubris. I greatly prefer people to approach these types of things with postive criticism rather than ridiculous comparisons.
This post has been edited by DimensionWarped: 28 January 2008 - 09:39 PM

#42 User is offline Quexinos 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 09:43 PM

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fine here's your criticism
this fucking rocks!

hey with the latest one, the camera doesn't change with F2, are you guys going to always use the vomit camera?

#43 User is offline Sik 

Posted 28 January 2008 - 11:04 PM

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View PostDimensionWarped, on Jan 29 2008, 12:32 AM, said:

I'd also like to clarify that Dami didn't start this project nor was it his idea to use Blitz 3D. That was Mark. So (this is particularly directed at Sik) don't try to fault him for lazy programming. If anything, he's the opposite. What he did basically was taking Mark's engine and restructuring it to make the player management more sensible along with making a number of other corrections.

When I asked him why he decided to use Blitz3D, he said that it was because he didn't want to make the graphics engine. Now, if that isn't lazyness...

#44 User is offline DimensionWarped 

Posted 29 January 2008 - 02:27 AM

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And might I ask where your own 3D graphics engine is? Particularly one with non-standard lighting methos and either shaders or at least some method of faking the appearance of having shaders... I'd think you'd do something along those lines if you were going to call someone lazy for not having done it themselves correct?

From where I'm standing, lazy is relative. What relative stance are you looking down at Dami from? Call me curious.
This post has been edited by DimensionWarped: 29 January 2008 - 02:50 AM

#45 User is offline Damizean 

Posted 29 January 2008 - 10:17 AM

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Hello there, fellow Sonic Retro friends, let's clarify about this so far:

First, hope you all enjoyed the test demo. I gotta thank you for all for the compliments and the constructive criticism, specially for those who offered help :) (but please, refrain for making the "best than Sawnik Team" comments for now, though, we're nowhere near completion yet.) Second, let me explain what's this all about.

The goal of the tech demo is to show / do a field test our project engine. We're going for the standard classic formula, old-school gameplay style adapted to the extra third dimension. This means we're going to try to emphatise of control, exploration and gimmicks interaction, moreover than just linear path levels and insane speed (we all know classic Sonic only had a few high speed moments, it focused on gameplay and exploration through the multiple paths to mazeish-styled levels).

When we finally ended up deciding to use Blitz 3D (and I even told you this, even though you seem to have omitted that), it was because we wanted things to get done. The people working on this project already know the story, aiming too high will produce an even more higher fall. Creating a new engine would require a lot of time and effort just to reinvent the wheel to the point it would probably never lead anywhere. If there's an engine available that does what we want and how we want, there's no real point on going through the process of:
  • Developing our own game engine (along with 3D graphics engine, collision, scenegraph management, etc...)
  • Learning a new engine just to do fancy graphics, having to study how our current method would fit into it and check out if it's even possible to do it as easily as we do now.
Blitz3D (even though using an outdated graphics engine and it's Windows only) has clearly proved to be flexible enough to fullfill out goals. We don't need fancy shadows or shaders (heck, mostly of what any of the previous-gen games did in terms of graphics, we're able to do too with fixed pipeline, water refraction and reflection too (properly once we get the new system to work)). We're not even aiming to produce an AAA quality game (unless really good 3d modellers/designers just pop out, out of nowhere, wich possibilities of that happenins are near to 0) so it's safe to say we're good with it. I won't negate that Blitz3D doesn't have inconvenients though (like the ones quoted above), but it also provides some pros like being quite compatible with nearly almost every graphics card out there, works decently on wine (if linux users want to give it a try) and has good perfomance overall (taking in account there's no spatial culling method implemented).

Sik, your behaviour towards the engine test and anything we've done so far has been keeping annoyed me to no end, culminating with your posts. If you want to make your own engine, good for you, go ahead, I'll look forward for it, but you need to stop being so arrogant. We want things to get done, so we've decided this was the best method to achieve that goal. Programmers should work with what they feel the most comfortable with, specially when it's a project along the lines of a fangame. Due this, lazyness isn't exactly what justifies the usage of Blitz 3D, keep that in mind.

On another order of things, since it's a technical demo some things need to be worked out (and eventually will be. Control is experimental in both mouse look and gamepad. An implementation for reading input schemes through an external file has been currently added, so you guys can create your very own schemes. Mark has been working on objects and I'm mainly developing the backend framework, trying to get a more solid way to manage Sonic's motion, finishing Sonic object actions and adapting Mark changes to engine's code style (even though he's already been doing quite cool work). So yes, this is a very WIP project yet.

We'll eventually release the source code (once we reach the first milestone), so anyone who wants to contribute is free to do so, make a game off this and even work on new features to be added into the main trunk (as long as it fits the project's coding style and goals). If you want to give a try with level designing for now for the game, it's as easy as getting any tool that features B3D export (such as 3D Studio Max, DeleD or Leadwerks' 3D World Studio), adding the geometry you want and load it on the "Stage.xml" located at the stage folder.

So... have fun editing if you're going to try that out! Remember to post pictures of what you do ;)

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