I think the best evidence against this being a hoax is to look at Simon Wai's Beta and then compare it via the automated demos. If one notices, the automated demos are very glitched in Wai's but are not glitched at all in here: In fact, it appears Sonic attempts to follow the original layout in Wai's Beta and that messes it up-such as jumps and what not. Remember, Tails DIES in the Demo of the 2P Layout of Emerald Hill Zone. That's right, he DIES. This to me doesn't seem to make much sense. Also, if the view the HPZ demo, Sonic's movements are the exact same in both demos, and if you look at the Hill Top Demo, Sonic's movements work flawlessly again-and Tails doesn't lose his rings. Similarly, if you look at chemical plant, Sonic mimics his movements from the new beta, and messes up from it.
Now, we have a Beta that messes up its demos based on new level designs, and movements that work perfectly. We have our pre-Beta stills with the green balls on the thing in Hill Top, which highlights a section that's in the same place in this prototype. It should be of note that Sonic mess up here perceisely in Wai's.
Note: I just noticed there are glitches in Sonic's handling of Emerald Hill Zone's last movements in the Nick Arcade build. I would like to stress he gets over the objects, unlike in the Wai Beta, where that would've been unlikely at best. There might have been another mapping change here, though...
Furthermore, I believe as last evidence is the placement of Hidden Palace in this game: We have had no evidence up until now of just how early Hidden Palace was in this game, and how much it was worked on again. We now have this information beyond a doubt. Also, I don't think we had any hardcore evidence Hill Top Zone was as far along as it was.
And it also confirmed a suspecion I've had for years; Hidden Palace Zone in this form was nothing more than a test map for the new collision system. Note the straightforwardness (there's pretty much only one way to get around) and how everything is conviently blocked up where one might progress forward by a large emerald stuffing a pipe or no lift despite data for many objects in the level. Also, there's water and the only level with it at this point. Seems like a test map to me...kind of like Bunker 1 from Goldeneye 007: This was the default test map in that game, and was horribly incomplete and never really finished: Places unfinished in the map were simply blocked off via construction.
Could it be a hack? Yes. But I find it hard to believe someone would find it so necessary to hack the ROM to this extent where the demos suddenly would make sense and be consistant with Nick Arcade. Unless they wanted to be very convincing. It contradicts no known data, and explains things that we have seen but had no clue what they were (Sonic's bouncing sprites). In other words, there's too much here. Also it should be of note that Chemical Plant soon dies off after its demo point in terms of, well, everything except background and SOME collision data. Zones 2 in Hilltop and Chemical Plant have no objects. In other words, it seems like these boards were programmed in explicitly for a demo. There's way too much unnecessary work here involved and a lot less would convince. I in fact give more credibility to this being real than Simon Wai's, as there's no indication of piracy as far as I can find on it. And if I recall, Andre Dirk seemed to have a copy of the cart himself corraborating Wai's.
Oh yeah, about the piracy thing on Wai's (Suppressed Sega Logo): Don't give this too much thought. After looking through the programming of the new Sonic Prototype, I came up with a solution: Note, Copyright 1992 and the fact Sega appears at all (Crashing points similar) when playing the Beta in normal play. This was probably from a demo cartridge with multiple games, and was the source for more than one prototype. If this is the case, then it probably would be suppressed by Sega themselves, because it would've already showed up. Essentially the idea that pirates got to the ROM isn't outrageously consistant. That would also explain why default level select is active-ease of use to whoever is using it. It is sufficient to say I am suspecious if this is the infamous toy show cart at all. To my knowledge, Yuji Naka never stated whether or not Wai's Beta was the same cart. No one seems to know too much about the origins of that cart anyway for sure. I'll admit everything here is educated guesswork, but there's a lot of information that floats around these sites that annoys me in its naivity. I really think that people should be involved in other hacking projects, like I was when working on this stuff-Goldeneye in particular with the gameshark. I think a good chunk of people here are as well, which is a good thing-I remember Pelord from Goldeneye boards. And we had drama there, too (Destructo if I recall was a huge problem) that might've been just as bad of a problem than anything that happened politically here. My biggest fear is when money becomes involved, its more serious. When I got fed up, I just walked away. If I had made an investment, that would've not been so easy. In other words, remember guys, when money is involved, in particular large sums, you have to be more political. Sketicism is good, but so is discretion. Be smarter. $1500 is a lot of money that clearly you haven't spent. Someone spending $400 might take your criticism personally and not donate again.
By the way, DRX: Thanks very much for this ROM.
To skeptics to the origins of the U/D/D/D/D/U codes: This is why I believe simultaneously working on other games in other communities is important. It allows you to figure out resources that others might not know, and as far as codes go, it was only when someone discovered codes in the RAM states and published them to Goldeneye 007 did Rare release them. I stress very strongly that these could've been found by a clever hacker, or someone with a damned bible code program meant to read Sonic 2. If I recall, Cyan developped a program that could find strings of text long ago so its not inconceivable that the codes would've eventually been found using this method, if not found using this method.
Who am I? I've been relatively inactive in the community since 1999. I will not list my accomplishments in the community and there were a few (and very significant ones) back then (I posted under a much different name); I'm arrogant but I don't feel I need to prove myself any more than this. Now, I'll see everyone if I for some reason feel like reading these or replying again in the next few weeks, before my interest is lost (I've seen too many flames on here to be on it that much longer, it pains me to see that this community is still not over its immaturity: Its a 15 year old game and its only the internet guys. Chill, there's nothing to take that seriously. Its a hobby, not a war). If I don't return (I'm a quitter), I'll post again when a topic worthy of my attention is found, such as a new Sonic 1, 2, 3 or K prototype is found. Or when I've seen flames stop; maybe then I'll actually resume attempting experiments on things again, or at least show my findings. This whole post was the only reason someone got my attention long enough to consider opening up an account and taking that easy test. It is a disgrace. Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on you to show its a fake, not on DRX to show its real. As far as I've seen, there's no proof that its fake. Seriously, this kind of stuff has driven away too many talented people, and too many geese laying golden eggs have been killed off. If DRX gets enough of this, you'll drive him away too, who has been more than kind to the sonic community after this stuff. I'm not saying don't question. I'm saying don't accuse. If you must question, try to not make it sound like a flame. And when a turd asks a question, don't bash them. Just because someone asks a "stupid" question doesn't mean they won't become an extremely talented hacker at some point. Even if you've done something that deserves respect doesn't mean you should bash people. Just because this is the appropriate place to be Comic Book Guy doesn't mean you should be Comic Book Guy, Capiche?
This post has been edited by clibinarius: 29 December 2006 - 06:47 PM
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