The whole argument on why Mystic Cave was called Dust Hill in the Wai proto is that it took the level slot of the desert zone and they hadn't updated the name yet. This doesn't make sense since the desert zone's level slot (03) still exists alongside Mystic Cave's slot (0B). If Mystic Cave didn't replace the desert zones's slot then why is it called Dust Hill? It makes more sense that Dust Hill was the proto name for Mystic Cave. Green Hill was Emerald Hill's proto name judging by the map and Emerald Hill did indeed replace Green Hill's slot (00) in the Wai proto. ID 01 was likely reserved for Ocean Wind Zone, just look at the internal order: 00 - Green Hill (Emerald Hill) 01 - Ocean Wind Zone (Labyrinth leftovers in NA proto) 02 - Wood(s) Zone 03 - Sand Shower Zone (desert) 04 - Metropolis Zone Fits the order of the present map, doesn't it? EDIT: - Also interesting: 09 - Rock World Zone (empty level slot) 0A - Oil Ocean Zone 0B - Dust Hill Zone (Mystic Cave) Fits the bad present map.
And even if the desert's assigned level slot was any other, DRX's later prototype releases also taught us that the cave kept being called "Dust Hill" on the Level Select screen even after being reworked. We just haven't seen any instances where it wasn't.
Let's just all agree that Dust Hill was a shit name. Like a lot of these names actually. I know many Sonic level names are on the nose but Winter Zone, Beach Zone, etc seem too specific.
Regarding the desert level. This is purely speculative, but there is something that bugs me. I fully agree with ICEknight that the desert level is not Dust Hill Zone. It is now obvious this is Sand Shower Zone from the "good" present, the map is the ultimate proof of this. But if you look carefully at the "past" map and the labelling, Rock World Zone may not be the pyramid... It may be this huge rock at the top right of the map. And it looks like this rock may have ice on its top (winter level?). On the "bad present" map, Rock World Zone turned to be mountains surrounded by sand (the perspective is a bit wrong, but it is a sketch after all): And on the present map, this is Sand Shower Zone: Maybe Rock World Zone was the winter level in the past, and Sand Shower Zone, the desert level in the present.
Hey guys maybe if you re-wrote the Dust Hill Zone wiki page so that it doesn't suck, this topic wouldn't keep coming up. I've already fixed half of Game Development:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-bit) earlier this year - it's looking increasingly likely I'll be doing the rest. And when I'm done, I want a statue.
It isn't very hard to change level select pointers. This is a bit like saying Scrap Brain zone was the early name for Hilltop zone in the NA proto just because they didn't change the level select text instantly. The level select in Beta 4 featured Hidden Palace even after it was already scrapped. It was also likely they knew at an earlier point that they would redo the entire level select screen eventually and probably didn't care what the text said anyway. (Remember the Hidden Palace icon from the final level select?) It wasn't like the level select was going to be featured in advertising either. As for the Green Hill name, I think the fact that they cared to update the Chunks to Sonic 2's format in the NA prototype proves that at one point they were going to use it in Sonic 2 in some way before it was scrapped for the Westside Island location and Emerald Hill It don't think Dust Hill Zone being a different time variant of Green Hill Zone and the reuse of Green Hill's clouds is a simple coincidence. I'm also going to continue to believe Yasuhara's word over an old sketch that still calls Cyber City "Genocide City" and is missing Hidden Palace which was one of the first zones coded into the game.
Oh, like a dust bin isn't just for dust, but all sorts of trash! Thanks for the tip! You do realize there's like, zero chance they would just reuse the same Green Hill graphics from Sonic 1 in the final game, right?...
Dust Hill being THE proto name for Mystic Cave is either an idiotic assumption or an idiotic job on someone's part at Sega. Either way, there's absolutely zero sense in even considering calling it Dust Hill. It's a cavern with no sand or dust or hills which are a surface level anomaly. It was just a level select oversight they didn't change as of that proto. Why make so much discussion on such an insignificant detail? Do you want an award for your nonsensical speculation? Dear god help me.
So you believe the two links that Yasuhara found on a quick Google search while you choose to discard the actual documentation that he was trying to remember. Documents that he's providing himself, which on the other hand means that you no longer trust Yasuhara, only his past document-less self. ...Okay. Since it's not an assumption because it's in many prototypes, it may be the latter. Caves are actually the dustier places on Earth. And we're talking about a green cave which may be the alternate present of Green Hill. I mean, if anything, it would even make more sense than ever now. You know I'm on the side that's trying to stick to the facts, right?
This is the same team that thought Genocide City was just a dangerous/futuristic sounding name. The language barrier made things that sounded good to them yet unfitting to us.
Regarding this little bit: Thing is, they did redo the level select screen right after the Simon Way prototype. They wiped from it every level they knew for sure they were going to scrap and, still, they kept naming the cave level Dust Hill.
No. A few protos days or weeks apart doesn't suggest or prove anything. And yes, it is an assumption and speculation until you can prove otherwise which you haven't. You don't even know. Let alone when you think of a cave... You think dust? No. And hill? Yes the NAME Dust Hill being an alternate time Green Hill makes sense. But the level that is Mystic Cave Zone is no alternate to Green Hill Zone. It makes less sense than ever. You have stalagmites and jagged rocks underground or within a mountain, but let's call it a dusty hill. I wasn't taking a jab at you ICEknight, it was to another collective of people.
Would be nice to get someone to represent Retro and contact Hirokazu Yasuhara for an interview or something. I'm not suggesting that a lot of random people start doing it, but maybe someone with very high standing in the community who is used to contacting development members. and if its done than a proper plan and set of questions should be put into place first.
Did anyone consider that Yasuhara may have called the desert level Dust Hill because he had heard fans refer to it that way, and that messed with his memory? For example, I played Mario 64 once at a friend's house. Then Mario 64 DS came out, and I played the shit out of it. When the original 64 came out on VC, I was shocked at how basic the graphics looked, because playing the remake so much screwed with my memories of the original. We can't assume the devs know nothing of what we do. They may have seen us guessing at what was what, and it screwed with their memories. Remember, Sonic 2 is 25 years old this year. How well do you remember what you did 25 years ago?
Yeah, Yasuhara was probably suffering from Scrap Brain syndrome. Get it? Cause what the hell is a scrap brain and what kind of name is that for an industrial factory level? Ughhh.
Let's see... This is what we know for sure because we now have actual evidence that we can check: Mystic Cave is called Dust Hill in every prototype with the non-final Sonic 2 names. Mystic Cave is called Dust Hill in all the magazines it's ever mentioned (this could either include SEGA's press releases or just the prototypes). Dust Hill, Sand Shower and Rock World coexist as separate levels. Sand Shower is the present version of Rock World. The desert level is the present version of the rock zone. Those are the facts. People were asked about these things and their memories from 10-or-so years earlier contradict these facts? Well, guess what's to favor in those cases.
Some observations with this new information between Sonic 2 Concept and Sonic 3 & Knuckles: - Blue Lake Zone likely became Azure Lake, due to Azure literally meaning blue. - Sand Shower Zone concept was likely used in Sandopolis, there are sand waterfalls. - Tropical Plant likely inspired Mushroom Hill due to the jungle-ish nature of the zone. - I do believe Metropolis Zone's future concept became the basis for Chrome Gadget. As has been discussed, Olympus probably became Aquatic Ruin, and Rock World Zone's concept could have become Hidden Palace Zone or possibly Lava Reef. Interesting finds, indeed.
Let's ALSO remember that the world 'hill' may have been originated from a translation of '?' /mound/ which can also be 'pile' or even '?' /sakamoto/ which can also mean slope. So Dust Pile zone or Dusty Slope zone would be quite acceptable considering we got 'Genocide City'.
So if you're going on that. Then what would we call the Dust Hill we thought we've known all this time from that one mockup? Is that Sand Shower? RGamer, either way we look at it, I'm glad they managed in some way to fulfill their vision of a huge and complete game with an understandable plot with S3K... Because S2 was clearly a butchered job when we look at it now.
