[Korama]

Hallo, The Taxman!

Retro-Sonic rocks! I have a question: The music is quite good and fitting, where did you get it from? I've wondered ever since I played the demo for the first time. Well, one track is from Sonic CD but the rest I don't know. Did you compose it yourself?

[LOst]

The Taxman, on Nov 20 2004, 10:07 AM, said:

Really? Is this still for Stealth's Project Mettrix Engine or has something new been started? I know Dr Ivo had given Stealth some pointers with E02... either way that's 3 against 1! haha

I tried to get involved in Stealth mettrix, but he didn't want anyone in on his precious engine.

So Mettrix is Stealth's alone. What we are doing is another project. What it's about is still secret for most of the people.

What really knocked me over was the knowledge Dr Ivo had in his pocket when I talked to him. What he helped Stealth with was actually not very big.

Well, these project will really get the Sonic Community on its feet again I can tell. Competition give more quality!

[McAleeCh]

Heh, that's very cool there, Taxman. ^^ Though as you said some animations haven't been implemented, it still looks absolutely kickass. One thing I noticed, though - will Sonic's walking/running animation speed up and slow down depending on his speed in the final? If it did in the video, then it didn't look like it did to me. =/ Just a little touch that could be added to make it feel more authentic.

Still, though! Looks very kickass, and quite an improvement over the 2002 demo. BTW, I've been publicising this for you over at SCARZ. =P There's quite a few people interested in this project.

And yes, LOst, a little healthy competition never hurts.

This post has been edited by Knuckles Prower: 21 November 2004 - 05:18 AM

[voice]

Tried the game, I like the graphics, the music and the way the game flows, its very nice! Having said that, I have 2 complaints: A) The act passed music seems to loop, dunno if its suposed to do that. B) Completing the special stage forces RSonic to shutdown.

[Qjimbo]

Korama, on Nov 20 2004, 12:15 PM, said:

Hallo, The Taxman!

Retro-Sonic rocks! I have a question: The music is quite good and fitting, where did you get it from? I've wondered ever since I played the demo for the first time. Well, one track is from Sonic CD but the rest I don't know. Did you compose it yourself?

I asked him that question myself a while ago, apparently it's from a game called "Jumping Flash" for the Playstation. Good luck finding more songs from it on the web though, I've spent ages looking and just got various versions of "Jumping Jack Flash" xD

But yeah the new version Taxman's working on will have tracker format based music (like Unreal Tournament). I offered to help write the music but everytime I start modplug tracker I get scared and only put a couple of notes on before closing it lol :P

Also voice, why are you complaining about that old demo, that's way obsolete with the new total rewrite version coming up :P

[voice]

Um ok, just so everyone and Taxman know. Retro-Sonic's site is offline at the moment due to a hosting relocation. I am hoping though to have the site back online shortly, I am putting RSonic at the top of my priority list

[Sonic Hachelle-Bee]

Wow! This seems quite impressive Taxman.
Unfortunately, I can't try it if you haven't a Mac port of the game.

[The Taxman]

Don't worry, I'll try and port the game to other platforms when it's done. My only problem is getting ahold of a mac os x C++ compiler to use.

[Kamek]

This looks awesome... I'm gonna try out the demo and let you know if I find anything strange.

EDIT: 404'd! Guess I'll have to wait

This post has been edited by Kamek: 27 November 2004 - 02:55 AM

[LOst]

Tell me more about your new engine. What do you what to produce out of it?

You are targetting the fan game industry it looks like, but you try to get more original data from the original Sonic games to work here. I have never visited the fan game boards before, and my engine is not made to compete with people from the fan game boards at all.
You got something bigger here! I think you should jump out from those boards and get together with people from Sonic Cult, S2B, A51, SClassic etc... Since we are looking at the Sonic games from another perspective.

So perspective is important here I think. What are your perspectives?

[The Taxman]

LOst, on Nov 30 2004, 05:18 AM, said:

Tell me more about your new engine. What do you what to produce out of it?

You are targetting the fan game industry it looks like, but you try to get more original data from the original Sonic games to work here. I have never visited the fan game boards before, and my engine is not made to compete with people from the fan game boards at all.
You got something bigger here! I think you should jump out from those boards and get together with people from Sonic Cult, S2B, A51, SClassic etc... Since we are looking at the Sonic games from another perspective.

So perspective is important here I think. What are your perspectives?

Well, at heart Retro-Sonic has always been "the Sonic game I've always wanted to make myself", which I suppose is what makes it a fan game... I'm making 12 levels, my own special stage etc.

But after doing the first C++ engine for Retro-Sonic, I realised a lot of people wanted to make levels for it so with the new engine I've put in more effort to create better editing tools (the RSDK) so people could also create their own levels. Then the fact that all the tile mappings formats and object placement/level design format info from the Megadrive games was available from the hacking community led me to think: "Hey, since I have similar kinds of formats why not make converters to import this data into Retro-Sonic"

As it stands now the following things can be converted from a savestate/rom

-8x8 tile gfx, 16x16 mappings: Retro-Sonic uses 16x16 base tiles so the 16x16 tile mappings are rasterized into a bmp file, which is then compressed.

- 128x128 or 256x256 mappings: are converted into 128x128 mappings (I use 3 bytes because I have extra tile properties that can't fit into 2)

-Level Design: nuff said, it's the easiest data to port

-Collision Data: a decent conversion is possible, although some touching up in the editor is required sometimes.

-Ring Placement

-Object Placement, you must specify what objects in the Megadrive games correspond with what objects in Retro-Sonic are used when converting.

In terms of scrolling, line based parallax/deformation is possible so pretty much any zone's background can be recreated (not converted from a savestate though)

Now considering I'm going to have multiplayer mode via lan or netplay, the level importing options are useful if people wanted to play against each other in say Green Hill.

So I guess overall, I'm looking at this from both perspectives: This is a game that I've wanted to create with my own ideas and everything, but after this there's much more I can do with this engine.

On another note: I'm pretty sure the method I use for programming loop-de-loops etc, by coincidence is very similar to how it's done in the actual games:

The idea is what I like to call "Track Gripping" where the player sticks to the collision height maps according to where the collision sensor points are. From observation, it looks like there is 2 or 3 collision sensors that do this for the ground. The game checks to see which sensor is the highest and sets the player's y position around that.

This is a fast method, but encounters problems when the change in height is greater than a 45 degree angle (it looks un-natural). So the game switches to wall gripping, using the sensor points in a different position. Then when you go above 135 degrees, the gripping mode changes again to roof gripping.

Now this could be wrong, but I have some proof that this might be the system that is used in the actual games (not just Retro-Sonic):



Take a look at this bug from Sonic 1. The yellow lines indicate where 2 collision sensors would exist. In the left picture both sensors have detected a collision. The right sensor has a higher collision than the left, therefore the collision height from the right sensor is chosen by the game.

Now in screen 2, the right sensor has gone off collidable ground. Since the left sensor is the only one detecting a collision, it's height *must* be chosen. This causes Sonic to move down into the ground. The solution? Make slopes that always have at least a bit of flat ground after them. This is one of the few spots in the game where you can see this. Another level is Casino Night I think.

Soo yeah... enough rambling, I'm sure Dr Ivo and LOst probably even know the asm collision code used.

This post has been edited by The Taxman: 01 December 2004 - 07:35 AM

[Tiberious]

I looked at that myself, in both Sonic 1 (SYZ1) and Sonic 2 (Metropolis Zone), and they both do that... only problem with your workaround is that if you jumped, you'd go straight up, not off at an angle like in the Genesis games.

And if you're rewriting it, why not use this info and add it in, fixing that problem before it can even show itself to the public? I know this is a solo project for you, but you CAN accept help if it's offered, right (like if someone were to port the collision code from ASM to your language of choice)?

Also, since you've said you're using C(++), would a Dreamcast version be possible? *gets excited at the thought of a complete Sonic 1-3 for all 3 main characters*

[The Taxman]

Quote

I looked at that myself, in both Sonic 1 (SYZ1) and Sonic 2 (Metropolis Zone), and they both do that... only problem with your workaround is that if you jumped, you'd go straight up, not off at an angle like in the Genesis games.

Workaround? the whole trackgripping modes thing is a system, not a workaround. Also, wall gripping would not be in effect in those shots, since the angle of the ramp is below 45 degrees.

Anyway you would still go at an angle since the collision sensors aren't responsible for determining the angle, it's stored in the angle/curves section of the 16x16 collision data in Sonic games.

Quote

And if you're rewriting it, why not use this info and add it in, fixing that problem before it can even show itself to the public? I know this is a solo project for you, but you CAN accept help if it's offered, right (like if someone were to port the collision code from ASM to your language of choice)?

Also, since you've said you're using C(++), would a Dreamcast version be possible? *gets excited at the thought of a complete Sonic 1-3 for all 3 main characters*

I'm not rewriting the actual Sonic games, I just started my own engine for the 2nd time from scratch. I don't want to use any proprietry sega code, so far all the actual gameplay in Retro-Sonic has been done myself. Not only that, getting the actual collision code used wouldn't help at all :P I also do realtime player angle detection/rotation, so it's much better to use my code anyway.

As for a Dreamcast version, it's possible... as long as it runs fast enough. I'll try though!

[Trujin]

that's a quite interesting read, and your game looks very promising. Good luck.

[ICEknight]

The Taxman, on Dec 3 2004, 07:48 AM, said:

As for a Dreamcast version, it's possible... as long as it runs fast enough. I'll try though!

Oh my god, that would rock so much.