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Cancelled SegaSonic game SegaSonic Bros. (1992) found Found by guy who found and dumped the popcorn machine thing

#106 User is offline Donnie Paradox 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:07 PM

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I'm just glad to see anything like this being a thing. When was the last time we learned about something so unknown to us before?
This post has been edited by Donnie Paradox: 05 February 2016 - 07:08 PM

#107 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:10 PM

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View PostDonnie Paradox, on 05 February 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'm just glad to see anything like this being a thing. When was the last time we learned about something so unknown to us before?

Well the popcorn machine game was pretty mysterious wasn't? From what I remember, hardly anything was known about it. That was dug up recently.
There's also little things on occasion like the discovery of Marble Zone music in the Sonic 1 8 bit rom.

#108 User is offline Donnie Paradox 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:13 PM

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Well yeah, it was mysterious. As far as I know, though, we knew some stuff about that. With this, however, We didn't know this was even a thing.
This post has been edited by Donnie Paradox: 05 February 2016 - 07:16 PM

#109 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:18 PM

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The popcorn machine was known to exist and was fairly unremarkable. A semi working version of it was documented by UK:R at some park in Japan. It was just neat go see it dumped.

I think the last real enigmas were Marble Zone S1 MS, Sonic Eraser, and Sonic Crackers. Possibly Sonic Mars. Most of those are ancient, though.

Really, the last known big oblong title is Galaxy Patrol. After that it's the S1 and S3 prototypes, other protos, and the rare chance something like this pops up.

Oh, and the Sonic OVA OST.

#110 User is offline OKei 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:27 PM

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How delightfully bizarre. It almost feels as though we've only scratched the surface level of Sonic "mysteries," now there are games that virtually nobody knew existed.

View PostTimmiT, on 05 February 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Quote

This song, Funky Brothers, was composed for Sonic Brothers but unused:

https://twitter.com/...704152337465344

Hmmm... looking closer at the VGMDB info that evilhamwizard noted, both Keiko Utoko and Naofumi Hataya are credited for the vocals and composition for this track, respectfully. This track and certain others might have been the catalyst for the creation of Sonic CD's international soundtrack in 1993.

#111 User is offline RyogaMasaki 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:29 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 05 February 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

Oh, and the Sonic OVA OST.


THE FINAL FRONTIER.

#112 User is offline Mr Lange 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:30 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 05 February 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

The popcorn machine was known to exist and was fairly unremarkable. A semi working version of it was documented by UK:R at some park in Japan. It was just neat go see it dumped.

I know it was known to exist. I just didn't remember anything actually being known about it or what the game was like, other than some really vague idea.
I didn't know about the documentation, that's neat.

#113 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:24 PM

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View PostGeneHF, on 05 February 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

The popcorn machine was known to exist and was fairly unremarkable. A semi working version of it was documented by UK:R at some park in Japan. It was just neat go see it dumped.

I think the last real enigmas were Marble Zone S1 MS, Sonic Eraser, and Sonic Crackers. Possibly Sonic Mars. Most of those are ancient, though.

Really, the last known big oblong title is Galaxy Patrol. After that it's the S1 and S3 prototypes, other protos, and the rare chance something like this pops up.

Oh, and the Sonic OVA OST.

I may be alone in this but I would love to see an early Sonic Unleashed Beta. The one from the leaked reveal trailer looked significantly different.

#114 User is offline BlueParadox 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:06 PM

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Found something

https://twitter.com/...316164047986689

https://twitter.com/...819376226934784
This post has been edited by BlueParadox: 05 February 2016 - 11:09 PM

#115 User is offline OKei 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:21 PM

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View PostBlueParadox, on 05 February 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:



Archiving those tweets, in case they disappear:

Quote

--
見城こうじ [email protected] 26 Jun 2014

アはアーケードのア』 第15回『ソニックブラザーズ』(1992年セガ)をアップしました。MTJこと三辻富貴朗氏がセガに企画を持ち込んで開発されたのですが、ロケテスト段階で没になり、残念ながら市場に出回ることのなかった幻のゲームです
https://t.co/oYPkkENqbw

--
Yosuke Okunari /奥成洋輔 [email protected] 26 Jun 2014

@KenjohKohji 補足すると、囲むのに角部分は必要ありません。

Posted Image

--
見城こうじ [email protected] 26 Jun 2014
セガ「ソニックブラザーズ」補足訂正ありがとうございます。何と、画像なんてあったのですね。ビックリです。 RT @okunari @KenjohKohji 補足すると、囲むのに角部分は必要ありません。



#116 User is online ICEknight 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:23 PM

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Everything makes so much more sense now that we know it's unrelated to SegaSonic. =P

View PostGeneHF, on 05 February 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

Really, the last known big oblong title is Galaxy Patrol. After that it's the S1 and S3 prototypes, other protos, and the rare chance something like this pops up.

Oh, and the Sonic OVA OST.
And the other cancelled arcade game.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 05 February 2016 - 11:23 PM

#117 User is offline Yarcaz 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:51 PM

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I'm glad this was found and that we now know what it is finally. So from what we do know at this moment this "should" be one of the 2 arcade games that was cancelled but wasn't released, so we will have to keep a lookout for the other one. Maybe we missed some other arcade games or other games as we did with this game. I wonder how many more games/prototypes/alphas&betas/demos etc. that we haven't discovered and acquired yet are still out there. We might have to scour the internet and old magazines, because we saw that for this game that there was information already out there about it from a while ago, maybe a new thread/topic should be made so we can post possible findings whether it be from rumors, etc. and sort it from there to determine what is true and what isn't true in making finding these "hidden jems" easier.
Also there is the matter of finding a "SegaSonic Cosmo Fighter Galaxy Patrol" that can be bought and then probably having "ShouTime" or another person to dump the game's files.

I'm looking forward to more in the future!
This post has been edited by Yarcaz: 05 February 2016 - 11:58 PM

#118 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:55 PM

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I dunno, I'd like to see a beta for Sonic Adventure 2. There were a lot of news stories about that back in the day, about things that never materialized in the final game. Some of that might be bullshit, but some of it might not be. If you poke around in the wayback machine for Sonic HQ's news archives, there's information in there about:

- Tails not being in Sonic Adventure 2 originally, and the game getting delayed to add him and "other familiar faces." The whole "rivals" aspect of the game could have been a somewhat late addition.
- An EB Games employee visiting a dealer expo and seeing SA2 concept art for "Nails the Bat," good/evil Chao, early designs for Shadow (where he's missing an arm and missing an eye), and a monster made out of eyeballs (early Biolizard?)
- An article from the Dreamcast Magazine mentioning SA2's branching pathway story system, with the example being given of Sonic having to escape a submarine and having the option to pilot the sub to safety or pop the hatch and try to swim for it, with each option leading to a different level.

With RubyEclipse crashing Melpontro's stream and saying he found a huge cache of long-lost SA2 concept art, I'm really interested to see what's in there at the very least. This is definitely a white whale for me, because it feels like I am the only person who knows this information, or at the very least, believes in it.
This post has been edited by BlazeHedgehog: 05 February 2016 - 11:57 PM

#119 User is offline Donnie Paradox 

Posted 06 February 2016 - 12:01 AM

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I tried the best I could to fix up the Engrish translation so it's easier to understand. I have no doubt that there are some things taken out of context or inaccurately written but here goes:

Quote

"Sonic Brothers" was known in planning to take a route similar to "Bubble Bobble", "Syvalion", and "Omega Fighter", which were Fukio "MTJ" Mitsuji's direction works. It had been developed and we brought the plan to SEGA, but it died in the location test stage. Unfortunately they did not feel like the vision of the game would work in the market.

I only played it a few times, but since I do not think some people write these kind of memories easily, I'll try to describe to the extent that I remember. If you know some people, we hope you point out if there is an error in the following contents.

The content was to be a falling block puzzle that uses the character of the "Sonic the Hedgehog" similar to "Tetris" and "Puyo".

Sonic's spin attack state was in a rounded variety of colors, falling in the shape of four sets of "field". By rotating, this will pile up in the field around the other Sonic in the same color of your Sonic. It is a play that goes off.

In this case, it may be enclosed to create a round closed wheel in the same color, to be enclosed with the outer wall of the field. Here is my writing in this figure that the case that may occur mainly in. It will be as follows: ■ By enclosed in (the same color), × in the (color can be anything) it will disappear.

Surround with a base □□□□□□
□ ■■■■ □
□ ■ ×× ■ □
□ ■ ×× ■ □

Surround with the base and one-sided side □□□□□□
■■■■ □□
××× ■ □□
××× ■ □□

Surround with the bottom and both sides □□□□□□
■■■■■■
××××××
××××××

Surround without a base (such as making a wheel) or even being allowed to do so was the key in the fall of a single block, Dari enclosed in double, but I think it is also possible to enclose two places at the same time, Whatever happened, I have no clear memory (in any case I think that my judgment may have also disappeared).

It was for puzzle game lovers, but for you I think you are able to imagine the game was a little painful. It was difficult. Because once a mistake is made or planning is ruined, it is very difficult to rebuild. Even during the falling of blocks come more blocks and often four more units.

Because the colors were enclosed anything good helps, such as capturing colors or advancing the game. Focusing on what color is coming will be very important. A difference of placement or discarded placements were huge. Don't throw placements away. A certain sense was the impression that there was a dense meaning, an extreme making of the game.

Not limited to falling blocks, and incorporated the concept of "surround" in the game and playing, while grasping the (depending on the rules) of the inside and outside of the boundary conditions, it is also necessary to follow the trajectory of the boundary, always a wide range. They tended to be difficult games that I have had to deal the eye to and it is quite hard to foster the idea to product.

For "Sonic Brothers" what I remember is this: just like the magic stone in the game "Columns", I think that there was probably also kind of relief items, but I have since forgotten.

I think, as in "Cleopatra Fortune" that idea is a more sophisticated form of "Sonic Brothers". The idea of ​​the part that it surrounds is very similar. The "surround" that divided the role of the parts on the side which was surrounded and the side has been sublimated in play that is very easy to understand.

Features of Fukio "MTJ" Mitsuji's plan was to start from that one catchy idea, I think that there were some problems on the specification in strength to twist one's arm in Gowan.

However, this simple puzzle game, while also important with decoration and adjustment, element is less simple. It also characterized in that the portion determined by the earlier of the idea one shot large, this work also said there was a flame was not able to reach the launch unfortunately.

Again, I only played on my own several times, documents are also not there. there might be a difference in memory, such as the rules. If there are people you know, I think if you can let me know.

I feel sorry that there is no opportunity to experience the "Sonic Brothers" again. It might be fun to try to form a program with the same mechanism.


#120 User is offline RyogaMasaki 

Posted 06 February 2016 - 12:38 AM

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I actually just finished my own translation of that post, though a couple of lines are escaping me. I'm pretty tired.

Quote

"A is for Arcade"
#15 'Sonic Brothers' (1992, Sega)

Mitsuji Fukio, known as MTJ and for the design of games like 'Puzzle Bobble,' 'Sylvalion,' and 'Omega Fighter,' was the director of 'Sonic Brothers.' Though he designed and developed the game, it was cancelled after the location test and was never brought to market.

I can only remember playing it a few times, but it seems there aren't many people who have written down their memories of the game, I'll attempt to describe it as I remember it. I'd be happy if any who knows the game could point out any errors:

The game was a falling-block puzzle game using 'Sonic the Hedgehog' (similar to Tetris or Puyo Puyo).

The multi-colored Sonics in round spin attack form

In a 田 shaped block, a set of 4 fall downwards. You can rotate the block, and they will pile up at the bottom, and when Sonics of the same color surround a different colord Sonic, it disappears.

This can happen by forming a ring with the same colors or by using the walls. I've drawn the possible scenarios below. This character ■ (Same color) represents the Sonics that surround × (which can be any color) which are Sonics that will disappear:

Using the bottom
□□□□□□
□■■■■□
□■××■□
□■××■□

Using bottom + one side
□□□□□□
■■■■□□
×××■□□
×××■□□

Using bottom + both sides
□□□□□□
■■■■■■
××××××
××××××

Not using the bottom (for example, making a ring) might have been allowed too, and I think you could drop one block to complete two enclosures at once, but I can't quite recall what would happen in that case (but I imagine that they disappeared in any case like that).

If you're a puzzle game lover, you can probably imagine the game was a bit frustrating and difficult. If you make just one mistake with placement, your plan will fall apart, and it's extremely difficult to start stacking over again. It's also problematic that there so many blocks, since they come down in fours.

Since the surrounded blocks can be any color, as a bit of advice, it becomes extremely important to pay attention to the color as the game progresses. It's infuriating to throw away a block when it turns out you needed it, --unsure--

Not just limited to the falling blocks, the game further adopted the concept of 'encircling.' While playing, (according to the rules) while keeping track of the situation inside and outside of the boundaries, it's necessary to follow the tracks of the boundary line. It's a difficult game where your eyes have to take in wide scope of things all at once. That concept reappeared in some later, released games.

That's about all I remember of 'Sonic Brothers.' There may also been a kind of support item that looked like the gems from 'Coumns,' but I can't recall.

I think a more polished example of the 'Sonic Brothers' idea is the Taito game 'Cleopatra's Fortune.' The encircling idea greatly resembles it, but the parts that surround and can be surrounded are different, and there's much easier to understand gameplay.

I think MTJ's forte as a designer is to start with a single catchy idea and forcing it to work as problems arise.

-- unsure --

I had only played the game a few times, and there are no materials, so the rules and such might differ from how it actually was. I'd appreciate any knowledge anyone has about it.

I think it's awful that I won't get to experience 'Sonic Brothers' once more. It might be amusing to program a game with the same structure..


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