[LuckyStrike]

Agreed. I'm surprised this seems to be such a low key event so far. Hope this doesn't discourage Jolly from continuing the good work he's doing. Many of us I'm sure including myself never thought this game would see the light of day. I still remember years ago when there was an April Fools hoax where someone slowly torrented a fake file for over a week claiming it's Sonic X-treme. The scars left behind from that farce are fully healed now after all these years!!

[GeneHF]

I also think that Sonic Xtreme in and of itself is an underwhelming topic across the scene.

I'll be perfectly blunt here: the game looked terrible. That E3 1996 footage that gets around a lot did not do any favors, and quite a few accounts from people that played that build weren't very positive. If anything, the game was more thought of as an anomaly for being so prominently displayed then quietly killed off in favor for Sonic R, a port of 3D Blast, and a compilation.

That was the main interest in the game on a mass market level: it was an anomaly.

Then Chris comes out and goes almost full tell all with the game and actively works with the community in finishing it up, which is badass. And then we get some of the prototypes of the game in the NiGHTS engine and so on.

The main thing is that the Sonic community may be "Xtremed out" since Xtreme basically exploded in resources and details. It's like if we got another Sonic 2 prototype. Fun, and neat, but unless it's a build earlier than the Nick Arcade one or in between that one and the Wai build, I don't think we'll find anything fascinating.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not diminishing the importance of the PoV prototype since it's a pretty neat look at the last ditch effort to get Xtreme out the gate, but on a mass preception, and especially since it's just the Jade Gully assets locked in a 2D plain with 3D towards and away movement implemented, most are just seeing it and going "Neat." then moving along. Sadly, Xtreme at this point has become more a thing for the truly dedicated.

It doesn't mean it's any less appreciated in my book and in Retro's anyway. I think it's important this stuff be released and documented for historical preservation, even if it is a failed game. People did spend years working on this and that hard work, for better or for worse, shouldn't be forgotten by time or lost in the back of someone's closet.

[Andrew75]

GeneHF, on 11 May 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Then Chris comes out and goes almost full tell all with the game and actively works with the community in finishing it up, which is badass. And then we get some of the prototypes of the game in the NiGHTS engine and so on.

Hey thanks for all the replies guys !

Some things that need to be corrected on the news article.
(The biggest misunderstanding of Sonic X-Treme is in regards to the Nights build, I think it needs to be set strait)
I think everyone gets the Nights engine aspect of the project Mixed up even though Mike and Chris explaned it pretty clearly.
It's understandable as there is just too much to keep track of with Sonic X-treme because of its crazy history.
Basically, There is no Nights!........ (Did you see what I did there?) engine Build of Sonic X-treme lol ^ ^v

The leaked 718 build or Nights build that everyone knows it as, is not actually the Nights engine but what seems to be the start of Christina Coffin's project Condor which was Actually based off of her boss engine.
I guess you cold say its part of Project Condor before they jammed the 3D sonic model in replacing his sprites.

From Chris Senn's Faqs:

Quote

Q: Was the NiGHTS engine used?
A: No. This was discussed at one point, but never became a reality. The Boss engine Chris Coffin created provided a similar look, albeit simpified, to the NiGHTS engine, but the actual engine was never shared or used.


Q: What was "Project Condor"?
A: By the end of the project there were two teams working on two versions of the game, one comprising Ofer Alon and Christian Senn (Saturn/PC) with the other led by Chris Coffin (Saturn), dubbed "Project Condor". (see above for its members).

If we look at the Project Condor build screen below, its actually the same exact level mesh that was found in the ( so called Nights build)
the only difference are the textures, added rings , new background and a 3D sonic model. Not just that but in the leaked 718 build we find assets related to the Metal sonic Boss Battle, and in this screen we can see a red lighting effect on Sonic's model, which is very similar to the effect used for Metal Sonic's lighting.



Here is a snippet regarding the Mike Wallis interview taken from Sonic Cult. It does not specifically mention there were any builds produced with the Nights Technology.
However I intend to find out once and for all if there was a Nights build of the engine, And if there was indeed a Nights engine build,
I do not think it is the engine that has been leaked, because that one behaves exactly like the boss engine and also contains boss engine assets.
Mike Interview snippet:

Quote

Bernie Stolar made us alot of promises that he couldn't deliver on. He was brand-new and he said, "Look, what do you guys need to do this by Christmas?" and we said "Well, we need the NiGHTS engine, because we can't develop the technology, it would take too long." ... so he said, "Alright! You got it." So, you know, they shipped us a NiGHTS editor, a level-based editor and our designers where familiarizing thereselves with that, and after about two-weeks, Yuji Naka who was the designer of NiGHTS, and one of the original SonicTeam, had said "No". There was a big rivalry between SOJ and SOA and Yuji Naka hated SOA..

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 11 May 2015 - 05:10 PM

[GeneHF]

Well, there you go. Even I can't keep Xtreme on straight. I'll revise the piece to reflect that, since it's usually thought of commonly (like you said) as the NiGHTS build. I'd like to stick with accuracy more than public perception.

Anything else that needs clearing up?

[Andrew75]

GeneHF, on 11 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Well, there you go. Even I can't keep Xtreme on straight. /> I'll revise the piece to reflect that, since it's usually thought of commonly (like you said) as the NiGHTS build. I'd like to stick with accuracy more than public perception.

Anything else that needs clearing up?

Hmm everything else seems fine from my Knowledge at least.
I edited the post above to add some more info , and I've also contacted Mike Wallis in regards to obtaining more info regarding a potential Nights build that may or may not exist.
Also I don't know if calling the POV build a last ditch effort is 100% accurate. Because Project Condor and Ross's PC builds were all going on at the same time.
At least from my understanding. I guess it could be Sega's last ditch effort. Ahh man the history is just so , frustrating to wrap ones head around.

[High Fidelity]

That Project Condor screen sure does look like it's based on Nights. Those ring hoops look a bit suspect!

People are definitely interested in this Andrew, but I think it's like the AXSX thread where people tend to think to themselves 'that's awesome' but don't actually post so you never know how many people are interested. Don't get disheartened.

@GeneHF I think X-treme is like Marmite, people either love it or hate it. Seeing screens when I was a kid got me pretty excited as it promised another battle between Sonic and Mario but now in 3D. I quite liked the art too, compared to Spinball's which I fucking hated . I didn't like the way SOA treated Sonic in the 90's, to me it felt a bit too much like it was just about making money, where as the Japanese had a stronger creative vision for Sonic.

[Skeledroid]

GeneHF, on 11 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Well, there you go. Even I can't keep Xtreme on straight. /> I'll revise the piece to reflect that, since it's usually thought of commonly (like you said) as the NiGHTS build. I'd like to stick with accuracy more than public perception.

Anything else that needs clearing up?

Yeah I think this is also a massive problem with X-treme. So many engines etc. as far as we've known up to this point, little build iterations, etc. -- and we're still waiting for further development. It sort of feels like we still don't have the big picture of all that transpired in one nice story with pictures, file attachments and so forth. Do the staff make a front page post with every single new Sonic X-treme PC build? Every Saturn build? Every version? It's a big deal in the general sense of the retro Sonic timeline but it still seems to be unraveling since we originally got the "NiGHTS" engine which is several several years ago now.

[doc eggfan]

I'm interested, but my interest is bottlenecked by an inability/laziness to play the builds on real hardware. Unlike an md or gg prototype which can be thrown staight into an emulator and pulled apart in a hex editor, playing saturn betas requires a bit more dedication - burning a cd, installing a modchip or breaking your hardware with the hotswap trick. I'd say many people are in the same boat, or may not even have a saturn to try these on.

I mean, who uses optical media anymore, amiright? [/firstworldproblems]

[Jollyroger]

Nice to see some activity...

[Lanzer]

Jollyroger, on 11 May 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

Nice to see some activity...

Those Sonic 1 alpha images got us all distracted, sorry man!

[Andrew75]

Andrew75, on 11 May 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

If we look at the Project Condor build screen below, its actually the same exact level mesh that was found in the ( so called Nights build)
the only difference are the textures, added rings , new background and a 3D sonic model. Not just that but in the leaked 718 build we find assets related to the Metal sonic Boss Battle, and in this screen we can see a red lighting effect on Sonic's model, which is very similar to the effect used for Metal Sonic's lighting.



Here is a snippet regarding the Mike Wallis interview taken from Sonic Cult. It does not specifically mention there were any builds produced with the Nights Technology.
However I intend to find out once and for all if there was a Nights build of the engine, And if there was indeed a Nights engine build,
I do not think it is the engine that has been leaked, because that one behaves exactly like the boss engine and also contains boss engine assets.
Mike Interview snippet:

Quote

Bernie Stolar made us alot of promises that he couldn't deliver on. He was brand-new and he said, "Look, what do you guys need to do this by Christmas?" and we said "Well, we need the NiGHTS engine, because we can't develop the technology, it would take too long." ... so he said, "Alright! You got it." So, you know, they shipped us a NiGHTS editor, a level-based editor and our designers where familiarizing thereselves with that, and after about two-weeks, Yuji Naka who was the designer of NiGHTS, and one of the original SonicTeam, had said "No". There was a big rivalry between SOJ and SOA and Yuji Naka hated SOA..

Okay so yeah Got a reply back from Mike, and he's confirmed that there was never any Sonic X-treme running inside the Nights engine. They never got that far.
He also says that the screen above is from Coffin's tech.

[Felik]

To be honest I was really excited when I saw Xtreme screenshots in a magazine as a kid. Now I realize it's was gonna be kinda shitty but nevertheless you guys did an excellent job. This will go into the museum of Sonic history.

[Kiddo Cabbusses]

Felik, on 12 May 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Now I realize it's was gonna be kinda shitty

It could be argued now that the POV build had the potential to be better than Saturn 3D Blast, if it had progressed further (from the current build that looks barebones, I'd say simply slap on some proper momentum physics mechanics and someslopes, loops and other typical Sonic elements. Disregard most the pre-POV gimmick elements like Fisheye and razorspin and focus on simply making Sonic work as a 3D platformer....).. Perhaps it would have still been a disappointment, but at least then Xtreme would have come out and people would have bought it on the name and hype alone, thus the Saturn's reputation wouldn't be stained with "Never had a proper Sonic title."

[Andrew75]

Felik, on 12 May 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

To be honest I was really excited when I saw Xtreme screenshots in a magazine as a kid. Now I realize it's was gonna be kinda shitty but nevertheless you guys did an excellent job. This will go into the museum of Sonic history.

Yeah I was the same, I loved looking at screens and reading all the hype as a kid, Maybe one reason we never really had any leaks is because the guys who worked on the game are toooo ashamed to release anything. (I'm not really seriously thinking that btw lol)
Having a mystical status is better than having what we are perceiving here. But I think it's good to see these builds come to light, to give some of us who have been waiting 19 years a bit of closure.
Hmm,,,,I believe if the project continued another year or so , maybe we would have got something a little more refined to judge. No mater which team's version was chosen to continue.

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 12 May 2015 - 07:57 AM

[cornholio857]

Now I need to get a modchip for my Saturn to play this POV build! I have no interest in doing the swap-trick. Even if it's supposedly easier to perform on a Model 2 Saturn, which I have. Keep up the great work JollyRoger and Andrew75!

PS: When I am able to play this on my Saturn I'll have to play Space Queens in the background to complete the experience!