[Dissident]

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

TimmiT, on 27 January 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

Meanwhile this exists for quite some time.

I haven't seen Sonic Spitball yet but I'm willing to bet that it's much better than Roger's awful series.

Haha, NO

Roger's stuff is pretty bad imo. He's not really very insightful, he just kind of throws ideas at the wall.

[Felik]

Quote

He's not really very insightful

Except he is?
Anyway I'm not going to start a debate, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that this guy is not the first person on the internet to make a thoughtful depiction of the series. Mine just so happens to be the same as Roger's on many occasions and I find his stuff entertaining and on point.

This post has been edited by Felik: 27 January 2015 - 09:06 AM

[Polish Pete]

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Quote

He's not really very insightful

Except he is?
Anyway I'm not going to start a debate, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that this guy is not the first person on the internet to make a thoughtful depiction of the series. Mine just so happens to be the same as Roger's on many occasions and I find his stuff entertaining and on point.

Let's just say Roger discusses things his own way, 'kay? Same could probably be said about NickonAquaMagna.

[Skyler]

This is great, but it feels like stuff that's already been done before. Still, looking forward to parts 2 and 3.

TimmiT, on 27 January 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

Meanwhile this exists for quite some time.

I haven't seen Sonic Spitball yet but I'm willing to bet that it's much better than Roger's awful series.

That was pretty bad, especially the yelling bits.

[JaredAFX]

Morph, on 27 January 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

I did notice a seemingly contradictory point though. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but: When he went over Sonic Adventure 2, he mentions (iirc) that there are too many actions assigned to a single button, and I absolutely agree. However, he later complained that the controls in Sonic Generations were too complex as a result of all of the actions it split onto separate buttons.

I was under the impression that he was saying Generations was too complex in its own right and Sonic shouldn't need that many buttons to begin with. I do see how he was inconsistent in explaining that, though.

[Azukara]

Roger's rants aren't bad, but they aren't that great either, to me. He makes some good points every now and then, but he's obviously biased for and against a lot of things (particularly stating SA2 is the pinnacle of the franchise over and over or something), and feels the need to drag the subject of the fanbase/community and other far-out things into the big picture too much. Plus, he's never really went down on discussing game design properly, just kind of vague notions of it without much elaboration or understanding behind what makes the game design tick.

All that and he's a bit on the abrasive and loud side from what I can tell, and his show depends on gimmicks a lot, which makes it hard for me to stick to. In short, I find him too biased and not well enough knowledged on game design to say he's even a contender for this video.

JaredAFX, on 27 January 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

Morph, on 27 January 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

I did notice a seemingly contradictory point though. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but: When he went over Sonic Adventure 2, he mentions (iirc) that there are too many actions assigned to a single button, and I absolutely agree. However, he later complained that the controls in Sonic Generations were too complex as a result of all of the actions it split onto separate buttons.

I was under the impression that he was saying Generations was too complex in its own right and Sonic shouldn't need that many buttons to begin with. I do see how he was inconsistent in explaining that, though.

I think he meant that as in that it was a lot of stuff the game practically required/forced you to use. Every face button was and is necessary in the boost games just to maneuver Sonic properly (boost is required for fast, bumpers and triggers for dodging and turning, stomping for a dead halt, sliding for going through low spaces, etc), while the only things you need in the original gameplay style is run-jump-roll (and sort of the Spin Dash and Homing Attack, which are extensions of rolling and jumping, respectively).

The other moves are mostly optional or additional and don't really make a difference to what the game requires from you, bar those one or two sections in later areas of SA2 that forced you to use the Light Dash, but I think that sort of attaches to criticisms of SA2's gameplay as well.

This post has been edited by Azukara: 28 January 2015 - 01:51 AM

[Morph]

Azukara, on 28 January 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

JaredAFX, on 27 January 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

Morph, on 27 January 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

I did notice a seemingly contradictory point though. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but: When he went over Sonic Adventure 2, he mentions (iirc) that there are too many actions assigned to a single button, and I absolutely agree. However, he later complained that the controls in Sonic Generations were too complex as a result of all of the actions it split onto separate buttons.

I was under the impression that he was saying Generations was too complex in its own right and Sonic shouldn't need that many buttons to begin with. I do see how he was inconsistent in explaining that, though.

I think he meant that as in that it was a lot of stuff the game practically required/forced you to use. Every face button was and is necessary in the boost games just to maneuver Sonic properly (boost is required for fast, bumpers and triggers for dodging and turning, stomping for a dead halt, sliding for going through low spaces, etc), while the only things you need in the original gameplay style is run-jump-roll (and sort of the Spin Dash and Homing Attack, which are extensions of rolling and jumping, respectively).

The other moves are mostly optional or additional and don't really make a difference to what the game requires from you, bar those one or two sections in later areas of SA2 that forced you to use the Light Dash, but I think that sort of attaches to criticisms of SA2's gameplay as well.

I suppose you guys are right, but even after that's cleared up, it seems like my point still holds up here.

SA2 has more required actions than just the light dash. Buggy bypasses notwithstanding, the somersault and bounce in Sonic's case are absolutely required to at the very least complete the game, even if the bounce was only really required in one instance... much like the light dash. Sort of an artificial requirement in the sense that the level design really doesn't make good use of the abilities, but requirements none the less. So although certainly less frequent, I feel like SA2 with actions distributed across buttons would be just as complex. Although I do dislike it, maybe having the actions on one button lends well to SA2's simplicity in that regard...

Not really a big deal one way or the other though, I just thought it was an interesting point.

[Azukara]

Like said, I think he brought up not liking how SA2 handled it either, and I can't say I disagree with him. I'm completely on board with how redundant the somersault was when rolling had existed for years at that point and did everything somersaulting could and way more.

Still, I think spreading out those moves to different set ups would be best. Y for light dash, A + X for bounce attack, picking up or dropping objects on B, and yeah there you go. Still simple but spread across the face buttons. Probably more of what he had in mind.

[NickonAquaMagna]

Polish Pete, on 27 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Quote

He's not really very insightful

Except he is?
Anyway I'm not going to start a debate, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that this guy is not the first person on the internet to make a thoughtful depiction of the series. Mine just so happens to be the same as Roger's on many occasions and I find his stuff entertaining and on point.

Let's just say Roger discusses things his own way, 'kay? Same could probably be said about NickonAquaMagna.

...Sorry?


Anyway, for the sake of not double posting... I really enjoyed the video. He's basically brought up every single thing non sonic fans would brush off as nitpicking (and coincidentally, everything I've ever really wanted to talk about in my old, weak ass videos from back in the days of guys like Nicochi and Kuta.)

I'm sick of "vidya game design philosophy gurus" like Egoraptor actively trying to piss off Sonic fans at every turn and not considering the series worth giving the same analysis as games like Megaman X and Zelda and so on. It's about time someone harmless like "Shaymay" noticed the finer details and gave the blue blur some well-earned respect.

This post has been edited by NickonAquaMagna: 29 January 2015 - 12:29 PM

[Polish Pete]

NickonAquaMagna, on 29 January 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

Polish Pete, on 27 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Quote

He's not really very insightful

Except he is?
Anyway I'm not going to start a debate, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that this guy is not the first person on the internet to make a thoughtful depiction of the series. Mine just so happens to be the same as Roger's on many occasions and I find his stuff entertaining and on point.

Let's just say Roger discusses things his own way, 'kay? Same could probably be said about NickonAquaMagna.

...Sorry?


Anyway, for the sake of not double posting... I really enjoyed the video. He's basically brought up every single thing non sonic fans would brush off as nitpicking (and coincidentally, everything I've ever really wanted to talk about in my old, weak ass videos from back in the days of guys like Nicochi and Kuta.)

I'm sick of "vidya game design philosophy gurus" like Egoraptor actively trying to piss off Sonic fans at every turn and not considering the series worth giving the same analysis as games like Megaman X and Zelda and so on. It's about time someone harmless like "Shaymay" noticed the finer details and gave the blue blur some well-earned respect.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say anything bad about you. I was just saying that everyone has his own way of expressing how he feels about the current quality of the Sonic games, etc. I CAN be wrong sometimes. And yeah, I forgot how old your Sonic reviews were. Opinions can change over time after all. And I agree about Egoraptor. I'm not too big of a fan of him either.

[NickonAquaMagna]

Polish Pete, on 29 January 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

NickonAquaMagna, on 29 January 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

Polish Pete, on 27 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Felik, on 27 January 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Quote

He's not really very insightful

Except he is?
Anyway I'm not going to start a debate, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to point out that this guy is not the first person on the internet to make a thoughtful depiction of the series. Mine just so happens to be the same as Roger's on many occasions and I find his stuff entertaining and on point.

Let's just say Roger discusses things his own way, 'kay? Same could probably be said about NickonAquaMagna.

...Sorry?


Anyway, for the sake of not double posting... I really enjoyed the video. He's basically brought up every single thing non sonic fans would brush off as nitpicking (and coincidentally, everything I've ever really wanted to talk about in my old, weak ass videos from back in the days of guys like Nicochi and Kuta.)

I'm sick of "vidya game design philosophy gurus" like Egoraptor actively trying to piss off Sonic fans at every turn and not considering the series worth giving the same analysis as games like Megaman X and Zelda and so on. It's about time someone harmless like "Shaymay" noticed the finer details and gave the blue blur some well-earned respect.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say anything bad about you. I was just saying that everyone has his own way of expressing how he feels about the current quality of the Sonic games, etc. I CAN be wrong sometimes. And yeah, I forgot how old your Sonic reviews were. Opinions can change over time after all. And I agree about Egoraptor. I'm not too big of a fan of him either.

Oh, okay.

[Xeal]

Can't wait for the next parts. I do find it odd how there was no mention of Sonic Heroes whatsoever as the game mechanics and gameplay style are VASTLY different than the Adventure series as now you are controlling three characters in stages that somewhat try to complement each characters abilities (I say somewhat as the execution was horrible as the characters control is absolutely atrocious a majority of the time). I loved how he emphasized the camera issues in Colors and Generations (I personally was astonished by the fact that at this point they still hadn't done that) that don't allow for much back-tracking, let alone the fact the a majority of the level design doesn't allow that to begin with, which I have said time and time again is an aspect that needs to change.

This post has been edited by Xeal: 29 January 2015 - 06:54 PM

[Nova]

God forbid a YouTube personality dislike the Sonic series

It's not like they have a perfectly good reason to do so, right guys

right

right

[Felik]

Nova, on 30 January 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

God forbid a YouTube personality dislike the Sonic series

It's not like they have a perfectly good reason to do so, right guys

right

right

=

Nova, on 30 January 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

I didn't watch the video nor did I actually read the comments here but I immediately jump to conclusion that sonic community are making fools of themselves

[GeneHF]

The Sonic community DOES have a good penchant of doing that though.

Green eyes, anyone?

Blue arms?

CAN I GET A PHYSICS?