[360]

Sega ultimately failed to do the project justice. There wasn't enough financial backing behind it, not enough talent and not enough ambition and energy applied to the Sonic 4 project. As far as I'm concerned Sonic 4 was underwhelming, under produced and so low budget when the project deserved so much more than that it was unreal. Yes Episode II remedied many of these criticisms but the first game was just so weak and disappointing gamers didn't care by that point having been burned with the first game hence Episode II's disappointing commercial performance. Unless Sega can rewind time and start the project all over again I'm kind of glad this "experiment" has now reached its conclusion.

Calling it Sonic 4 when the project was such a poor and derivative imitation of the classics was the greatest mistake they made. Pure cash grabbing nostalgia bait. Calling it anything else would have tempered expectations and led to the games being better received. Critically if not commercially. Sonic Generations was the love letter to hardcore Sonic fans Sega needed to make so in that sense they redeemed themselves with that game. To this day GHZ in HD still looks glorious.

To be honest I'm glad the Sonic 4 project is now done and dusted and I'm optimistic about the new Sonic Team game that we're rumoured to be getting later this year.

This post has been edited by 360: 06 January 2015 - 01:54 PM

[TheKazeblade]

360, on 06 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Sega ultimately failed to do the project justice. There wasn't enough financial backing behind it, not enough talent and not enough ambition and energy applied to the Sonic 4 project.

I don't think budget really had anything to do with it. When you've had around two decades of framework to build upon, they should have had no problem creating a suitable successor with the assets they had available to them. It all comes down to the other aspects you mentioned: talent, ambition and energy. Time may have been another factor as well.

I just can't understand how a developer could get it so right three times (from a physics standpoint) in Sonic Advance 1, 2 and 3 then drop the ball so badly later. Even if there wasn't a single team member left from the Advance days (which I doubt highly) by simple observation it's discernible something is off. Either they got rusty from playing it fast and loose with the Rush series for several years, or they were rushed and/or lethargic about the entire event.

Good riddance to Sonic 4. Even the improvements to Ep II were just patching a garment with more holes than fabric. Keep it dead and buried and give it another shot with a Stealth Tax-developed Sonic 5.

This post has been edited by TheKazeblade: 06 January 2015 - 02:25 PM

[Overlord]

360, on 06 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Calling it Sonic 4 when the project was such a poor and derivative imitation of the classics was the greatest mistake they made. Pure cash grabbing nostalgia bait. Calling it anything else would have tempered expectations and led to the games being better received. Critically if not commercially. Sonic Generations was the love letter to hardcore Sonic fans Sega needed to make so in that sense they redeemed themselves with that game. To this day GHZ in HD still looks glorious.

This right here is the key takeaway, I think. I do wonder how the community's reaction would have differed to what we ended up with had this project been New Sonic the Hedgehog or something along those lines. Sonic Advance's line did OK despite 2 especially being fairly meh (1 is a solid game though, and the REAL Sonic 4.)

[GeneHF]

It wouldn't surprise me if Sonic 4 was just someone in marketing being cheeky and the game had a totally different name like Sonic Mobile or (as was popular at the time) Sonic MB since all signs point it to being a mobile title only at first.

[Yeow]

GeneHF, on 06 January 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Sonic 4 was just someone in marketing being cheeky and the game had a totally different name like Sonic Mobile or (as was popular at the time) Sonic MB since all signs point it to being a mobile title only at first.

I thought the name was Sonic DL. IIRC that was the file name of the uploaded Project Needlemouse trailer.

I do remember some speculation on that Sonic 4 was likely first designed for mobile titles in mind rather than consoles, this was largely based on Episode I's gameplay additions and control changes that some argued were done to accommodate for the mobile touch screen/controls:
- Scripted/automated elements like SPZ's automated corkscrews, the minecart levels that were originally in the console versions as well as the mobile versions, and the "new 'ceiling running' feature" were for the iPhone's tilt controls; with Sonic stopping like a rock anytime done should the player stop tilting their mobile device
- The use of the post-Adventure springs --that launch the player simply by being touched-- rather than the Genesis Sonic springs --that the player has to directly land on in order to be launched-- was for easier mobility around the level design
- The Homing Attack (with the reticules and beeping noises) was added so players would defeat enemies easier via tapping the touch screen, reinforced by the Bubbles chains that appear throughout the game

A fair amount of people (including some here) dismissed the idea largely based on the mobile ports of classic games (prior to the remasters) and Taxman's Sonic CD being able to control just fine with virtual controls, and the fact that Sonic 4's physics engine is largely based on Rush, which also have similar design choices; but I honestly feel the listed characteristics between the game and the mobile tilt controls are way too plausible for the theory to be debunked entirely.

This post has been edited by Yeow: 06 January 2015 - 04:41 PM

[Jen]

Overlord, on 06 January 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

360, on 06 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Calling it Sonic 4 when the project was such a poor and derivative imitation of the classics was the greatest mistake they made. Pure cash grabbing nostalgia bait. Calling it anything else would have tempered expectations and led to the games being better received. Critically if not commercially. Sonic Generations was the love letter to hardcore Sonic fans Sega needed to make so in that sense they redeemed themselves with that game. To this day GHZ in HD still looks glorious.

This right here is the key takeaway, I think. I do wonder how the community's reaction would have differed to what we ended up with had this project been New Sonic the Hedgehog or something along those lines. Sonic Advance's line did OK despite 2 especially being fairly meh (1 is a solid game though, and the REAL Sonic 4.)

Honestly, I think putting the game under a different name would've completely prevented the furore that occurred in the community. I've always thought that. We come to expect mediocrity and sub-par games with this fucking series at times, but a sub-par Sonic 4 is just unacceptable when it's supposed to be a direct sequel to what most of us consider to be the best Sonic game ever made. It felt like a kick in the face to me (and obviously many others in the community), when I've been waiting for the TRUE Sonic 4 since completing Sonic 3 & Knuckles in 1994. A Sonic 4 that can live up to its name and at least make some sort of attempt to play like its predecesssors; but that's obviously too much to ask, right? Episode 1 was a real low point for my time as a Sonic fan - the game I'd been waiting for since I was 7 years old turning out to be the ultimate let-down. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's probably the most disappointed I've EVER been with a video game, purely because it wasn't worthy of it's name and the inevitable hype that came with that name. Episode 2 was a little better, but still not good enough.

I'll always love Generations though. I may have freaked out slightly when Classic Sonic came leaping into view in the launch trailer =P It felt so good to see that guy, and eventually the beautiful recreations of the classic stages, after the Sonic 4 trainwreck. It made me feel like SEGA actually gave a damn about the classics and wanted to do them justice. Although it's obviously not perfect, it felt like a love letter to my childhood, which is what I would've expected from Sonic 4.

[DigitalDuck]

Jen, on 06 January 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Honestly, I think putting the game under a different name would've completely prevented the furore that occurred in the community. I've always thought that.

Hence my catchphrase of the time:

DigitalDuck said:

IT'S A FUCKING NAME

[Felik]

DigitalDuck, on 06 January 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Jen, on 06 January 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Honestly, I think putting the game under a different name would've completely prevented the furore that occurred in the community. I've always thought that.

Hence my catchphrase of the time:

DigitalDuck said:

IT'S A FUCKING NAME

Fucking DUH

[GeneHF]

Yeow, on 06 January 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

I thought the name was Sonic DL.

That was it. You can see it in Casino Street in some parts still, I think. I don't remember if this is in the final release or in the prototype/mobile ones.

[ICEknight]

dot.kh, on 06 January 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

But Sega will most likely find another way to bring back the good aspects of Sonic 4, so that's fine by me.

What good aspects.

[DigitalDuck]

ICEknight, on 06 January 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

dot.kh, on 06 January 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

But Sega will most likely find another way to bring back the good aspects of Sonic 4, so that's fine by me.

What good aspects.

[ICEknight]

That's incredibly repetitive...

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 06 January 2015 - 07:11 PM

[Aerosol]

If that's your only complaint, then I think it still counts as a good aspect.

[Naean]

ICEknight, on 06 January 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

That's incredibly repetitive...

Subjectively better example of a good aspect music wise...



... maybe. I really dig Metal Sonic's boss music as well, but this track above is one of my top favourite audio pieces out of Sonic 4 as a whole, including all episodes.

This post has been edited by Naean: 06 January 2015 - 07:25 PM

[dot.kh]

I actually liked Sonic's moveset. It's something I wouldn't mind seeing again in another 2D Sonic game (or at least I guess so).