[TimmiT]

GeneHF, on 28 December 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'll be perfectly blunt, knowing full well Sega peeps read here.

What the hell are you guys doing anymore? I know Boom fell on its face for a ton of reasons, but the way SoA and SoJ are handling the brand is probably the worst level of piledriving a company's flagship brand into the ground I've seen since Capcom with Mega Man. If the company is that desperate to collapse, just announce it already while the brands still have passable resale value. Sonic Boom? A Lost World-based mobile runner? A live-action/ani hybrid movie? Like... Jesus Christ, who can I direct a wiffle bat to in the attempt to maybe get some sort of sanity around here? I know some of you are frustrated with this too so I'm not shooting the messenger, but someone needs a good shot to the head up there and fast.

I'm not sure how a mobile runner makes the brand worse seeing how most people wouldn't take it that seriously, but yeah, SEGA is doing a terrible job handling it. I really don't get why they got the guy responsible for the Shadow the Hedgehog game to handle all things Sonic. It seems like the most positive thing he does is try to keep it from trying too hard to be serious and dark. They still try to make every new game something different without building upon what they did with previous games, make incredibly stupid deals like the Wii U exclusivity, give the game to devs with the wrong ideas (with the exception of Sumo Digital) etc.

It's weird cause SEGA has been improving their games lately outside of SEGA America and Sonic Team. It's mostly Sonic stuff that they fuck up now, while they don't have nearly as many problems with stuff like Yakuza, Miku, Phantasy Star and Total War.

This post has been edited by TimmiT: 29 December 2014 - 09:13 AM

[Azukara]

All the overwhelming pessimism in here is pretty funny.

I mean it's best to expect nothing too good from Sonic Team for the sake of keeping expectations low, but not let it ruin you to the point of not being able to enjoy anything anymore. Especially if the only places as of recent that Sega has stumbled on too much was making first steps into a different gameplay style than the boost stuff (which was, despite being fun, really shallow and was already running it's course by Generations so no it shouldn't have stayed), and letting another company make a game for a sub-series to this franchise that overall doesn't really change the scope of anything Sonic Team can pull off since it's practically just a bad tie-in game to something completely different at the point of it's release (the Boom games).

Anything from here is all up in the air. Nothing worth anticipating as if it's gonna be Sonic's return to form or whatever, but also nothing to act like it's the end of the gosh-dang world over. Despite Sega's financial troubles, Sonic is still the 8th best selling video game franchise of all time, so there's no doubt that whatever it comes down to, console games are probably not gonna go out of the question any time soon. Because despite whatever drops into mediocrity the series has faced, it has kept Sega alive by a thread regardless of what it should've done. It did a decade ago and it's gonna keep doing it now. No doubt.

Plus, I hope we're gonna realize that the person who 'deconfirmed' that poster saying about the future of Sonic stuff was really just doing PR backpedaling (especially since it was right about Boom's... everything, as well as the movie existing). Because I mean, if we're really going to dismiss that immediately yet automatically take in some random 4chan user's bullschlock about a Sonic movie adaptation game and Runners being Lost World based (all while coming from a guy who oh-so-coincidentially just appeared and claimed he was the guy who leaked that stuff before right after we found out the last guy was telling the truth), then you know we're desperate to shit/cry simultaneously over cartoon hedgehogs at any given moment.

Spoiler

Also, if you're gonna blame Sonic's quality on story, narrative or voice acting, ESPECIALLY when the series hasn't focused on that since 2008, then it's probably time to grow up.

This post has been edited by Azukara: 29 December 2014 - 11:19 AM

[Black Squirrel]

They're not very good with these titles anymore are they?

"Sonic Runners". It might have Sonic in it. Running.

[TimmiT]

Azukara, on 29 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

All the overwhelming pessimism in here is pretty funny.

I mean it's best to expect nothing too good from Sonic Team for the sake of keeping expectations low, but not let it ruin you to the point of not being able to enjoy anything anymore. Especially if the only places as of recent that Sega has stumbled on too much was making first steps into a different gameplay style than the boost stuff (which was, despite being fun, really shallow and was already running it's course by Generations so no it shouldn't have stayed), and letting another company make a game for a sub-series to this franchise that overall doesn't really change the scope of anything Sonic Team can pull off since it's practically just a bad tie-in game to something completely different at the point of it's release (the Boom games).

First off: giving Sonic extra parkour moves isn't a bad idea and could be done well. So yes, Sonic Lost World did have ideas the games could expand on. And nobody claimed that letting a developer other than Sonic Team will make Sonic Team as a developer look worse. But that still doesn't excuse putting out terrible games like both Sonic Boom titles. Yes, they're not supposed to be a part of the normal Sonic series, but they were still released as this year's big Sonic games and not as some random spin-off. So it still affects the brand, just look at how popular the awfulness of Rise of Lyric has gotten. And they're charging 50 bucks/euros for that shit. That they put that out and expect fans to buy it for full price is just kind of insulting to their own audience. It's kinda hard not to be pessimistic when it's clear that SEGA/Sonic Team doesn't give enough of a shit about its biggest franchise.

Azukara, on 29 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Anything from here is all up in the air. Nothing worth anticipating as if it's gonna be Sonic's return to form or whatever, but also nothing to act like it's the end of the gosh-dang world over. Despite Sega's financial troubles, Sonic is still the 8th best selling video game franchise of all time, so there's no doubt that whatever it comes down to, console games are probably not gonna go out of the question any time soon. Because despite whatever drops into mediocrity the series has faced, it has kept Sega alive by a thread regardless of what it should've done. It did a decade ago and it's gonna keep doing it now. No doubt.

Yes because Sonic games will sell well even when they're shi-oooooooooh... I guess the people who bought Sonic 2006 have outgrown terrible Sonic games at this point? Also, that list you pointed to doesn't specify console games, so that's not exactly a great argument you have there either way.

Azukara, on 29 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Plus, I hope we're gonna realize that the person who 'deconfirmed' that poster saying about the future of Sonic stuff was really just doing PR backpedaling (especially since it was right about Boom's... everything, as well as the movie existing). Because I mean, if we're really going to dismiss that immediately yet automatically take in some random 4chan user's bullschlock about a Sonic movie adaptation game and Runners being Lost World based (all while coming from a guy who oh-so-coincidentially just appeared and claimed he was the guy who leaked that stuff before right after we found out the last guy was telling the truth), then you know we're desperate to shit/cry simultaneously over cartoon hedgehogs at any given moment.

I don't believe that 4chan rumour either. The one that leaked all the Sonic Boom stuff and happened to see a bit about Sonic Runners is believable, not the guy who seemingly made stuff up about the movie. As for that poster: it's very likely that the next Sonic game won't be coming to Wii U if it's coming to PS4 and Xbox One unless it's a port of a game meant for Xbox 360 and PS3. There being a Sonic game in 2015 for PS4 and Xbox One just goes without saying though.

Azukara, on 29 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Spoiler

Also, if you're gonna blame Sonic's quality on story, narrative or voice acting, ESPECIALLY when the series hasn't focused on that since 2008, then it's probably time to grow up.

Who are you even talking to at this point?

This post has been edited by TimmiT: 29 December 2014 - 12:24 PM

[360]

I think the reason why we're getting angry and upset is because Sonic is our much-loved childhood franchise that we adored and grew up with; and it's just tragic, sad and somewhat agonising to be forced to witness his recent fall from grace. Colours and Generations gave us all renewed optimism and hope. Lost World and Boom pretty much trashed that and lit it on fire. And I think this is why we're all hoping to God that the next game that will hopefully be on Xbox One and PS4 in 2015 will actually be good. We want to see Sonic as a respected, critically acclaimed and loved franchise again that sells millions; thus renewing the same feeling we had as kids when Sonic was unstoppable and on top of the world.

It's less that Sonic has become a joke and more that Sonic had some excellent faith-restoring games (Colours/Generations) that almost immediately were followed by a tragic decline in quality that started off disappointingly and depressingly mediocre (Lost World) and then shifted to catastrophically bad (Sonic Boom) which of course instills pessimism, worry and doubt that the next game that we're all praying will be good; won't be. Personally I think that the still proven to be very capable core of Sonic Team, whether it's the Colours or Generations teams still have the power and capability to make a stunningly excellent Sonic game and with the presumed to be long and protracted development cycle (three years plus?) for whatever they're working on the signs and indicators for the quality of this next game are looking optimistic and promising. We know it's in development. We know the core of Sonic Team is behind it. We know Sega has their weight behind it given Sonic is the last franchise they have that means anything anymore. It's very, very probable and likely the game will be decent if not excellent.

Furthermore, the Hedgehog Engine on PS3 and Xbox 360 is also still to this day one of the best engines ever created over the last generation. The evolution from Sonic 2006's engine to the one of Unleashed and Generations was just unbelievable. Almost shockingly so. If Sega have presumably applied the same energy, effort, time and financial backing to this next game then at the very least it should be technically and visually stunning. Particularly given it's going to be released on new, more powerful and more capable next generation hardware.

Regardless of Sonic Runners which I'm mildly interested in, I'm far more interested to see what Sonic Team have in store for the next stage in evolution of Sonic. Here's hoping.

[Dude]

GeneHF, on 28 December 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'll be perfectly blunt, knowing full well Sega peeps read here.

What the hell are you guys doing anymore? I know Boom fell on its face for a ton of reasons, but the way SoA and SoJ are handling the brand is probably the worst level of piledriving a company's flagship brand into the ground I've seen since Capcom with Mega Man. If the company is that desperate to collapse, just announce it already while the brands still have passable resale value. Sonic Boom? A Lost World-based mobile runner? A live-action/ani hybrid movie? Like... Jesus Christ, who can I direct a wiffle bat to in the attempt to maybe get some sort of sanity around here? I know some of you are frustrated with this too so I'm not shooting the messenger, but someone needs a good shot to the head up there and fast.

I've got a hypothesis - perhaps the idea is to milk the Sonic property with a series of low-effort titles, burn through the last of whatever goodwill is left and then retire it for good when the sales finally bottom out. I mean it makes business sense if you're tired of a property that you don't know how to handle properly.

[Caniad Bach]

Dude, on 29 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

GeneHF, on 28 December 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'll be perfectly blunt, knowing full well Sega peeps read here.

What the hell are you guys doing anymore? I know Boom fell on its face for a ton of reasons, but the way SoA and SoJ are handling the brand is probably the worst level of piledriving a company's flagship brand into the ground I've seen since Capcom with Mega Man. If the company is that desperate to collapse, just announce it already while the brands still have passable resale value. Sonic Boom? A Lost World-based mobile runner? A live-action/ani hybrid movie? Like... Jesus Christ, who can I direct a wiffle bat to in the attempt to maybe get some sort of sanity around here? I know some of you are frustrated with this too so I'm not shooting the messenger, but someone needs a good shot to the head up there and fast.

I've got a hypothesis - perhaps the idea is to milk the Sonic property with a series of low-effort titles, burn through the last of whatever goodwill is left and then retire it for good when the sales finally bottom out. I mean it makes business sense if you're tired of a property that you don't know how to handle properly.

I'm sorry but I don't see how that makes financial sense at all. Surely the sensible option would be to A. Release high quality titles that actually sell or B. Sell the franchise on while it still has some value.

[JaredAFX]

I'm optimistic for Runners in particular because it's going to be a simple mobile game that we'll play on and off for a bit, waiting for the big release in 2015. The name doesn't have to be "good." Simple name = casual market, in this case at least. Who knows? Maybe the name perfectly encapsulates what the game is about.

Quote

It's less that Sonic has become a joke and more that Sonic had some excellent faith-restoring games (Colours/Generations) that almost immediately were followed by a tragic decline in quality that started off disappointingly and depressingly mediocre (Lost World) and then shifted to catastrophically bad (Sonic Boom) which of course instills pessimism,

While I agree with the latter of what you're saying, I witness people in real life who call Sonic a joke. Not just normal people, either. The very target audience Boom is trying to reach out to are the kids who tell me that Sonic sucks and he doesn't have any good games. I hear this. From actual grade-school-age boys. All the time. Maybe South Florida is just a hub of Sonic hatred, but I'm surprised people seem to not take this into consideration because I hear this on a pretty dang consistent basis.

EDIT:

Caniad Bach, on 29 December 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Dude, on 29 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I've got a hypothesis - perhaps the idea is to milk the Sonic property with a series of low-effort titles, burn through the last of whatever goodwill is left and then retire it for good when the sales finally bottom out. I mean it makes business sense if you're tired of a property that you don't know how to handle properly.

I'm sorry but I don't see how that makes financial sense at all. Surely the sensible option would be to A. Release high quality titles that actually sell or B. Sell the franchise on while it still has some value.

My thoughts exactly. I don't peg Sega as the type to martyr their own flagship franchise. If (theoretically, of course) they wanted to get rid of Sonic, don't you think they'd just give the franchise to another company, rather than say "if we can't have it, no one can!"

This post has been edited by JaredAFX: 29 December 2014 - 01:30 PM

[DigitalDuck]

They're experimenting with Sonic because it sells regardless of game quality, therefore it's much less of a risk to experiment with it.

[The KKM]

TimmiT- are we forgetting Sonic Unleashed already? What's so uncroyable about a PS4-XBone-WiiU game? They simply make what's essentially a different game reusing as many assets as possible, for the Wii U.

[JaredAFX]

DigitalDuck, on 29 December 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

They're experimenting with Sonic because it sells regardless of game quality, therefore it's much less of a risk to experiment with it.

Timmi already said that's not always necessarily the case.

[Dario FF]

On the other hand it took the awfulness of 06 to get them a bit back on track, so the backslash on Sonic Boom might help for 2015. The exception here is they probably have 10 times less the budget than what they wanted to throw at it than back in 2008.

On-topic with Sonic Runners: Not against it if it's a good mobile game. My problem with F2P even if the micro-transactions aren't bothersome is that they harm the design of a lot of games from the start. Something like Rayman Jungle's Run level design would not work on a game that relies on purchasable lives, and mostly need randomized infinite content to keep getting money out of the whales in mobile. Really hoping that Sonic Team has the guts to release a purchasable title they think is worth the money. (Again, like Jungle/Fiesta run)

[Dude]

Caniad Bach, on 29 December 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Dude, on 29 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

GeneHF, on 28 December 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'll be perfectly blunt, knowing full well Sega peeps read here.

What the hell are you guys doing anymore? I know Boom fell on its face for a ton of reasons, but the way SoA and SoJ are handling the brand is probably the worst level of piledriving a company's flagship brand into the ground I've seen since Capcom with Mega Man. If the company is that desperate to collapse, just announce it already while the brands still have passable resale value. Sonic Boom? A Lost World-based mobile runner? A live-action/ani hybrid movie? Like... Jesus Christ, who can I direct a wiffle bat to in the attempt to maybe get some sort of sanity around here? I know some of you are frustrated with this too so I'm not shooting the messenger, but someone needs a good shot to the head up there and fast.

I've got a hypothesis - perhaps the idea is to milk the Sonic property with a series of low-effort titles, burn through the last of whatever goodwill is left and then retire it for good when the sales finally bottom out. I mean it makes business sense if you're tired of a property that you don't know how to handle properly.

I'm sorry but I don't see how that makes financial sense at all. Surely the sensible option would be to A. Release high quality titles that actually sell or B. Sell the franchise on while it still has some value.

Well, if you know you're not capable of A and have too much of a control complex to do B it makes perfect sense.

[DigitalDuck]

JaredAFX, on 29 December 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Timmi already said that's not always necessarily the case.

The point being that it still sold more than it would have done without the Sonic name, hence it being less of a risk.

[STHX]

There is a good reason why that poster had a 2015 game on both PS4/One and Wii U: Sonic sells best on Nintendo platforms. Sonic Boom sold bad because 1) it's complete and utter shit and 2) as shown by the likes of DmC, Bionic Commando, Castlevania LoS, Lost Planet 3, RE: Operation Racoon City and many other "reboots", rebooting a series using a different and mediocre developer always ends in failure in the end. Sonic Lost World, despite being mediocre sold 710.000 units between 3DS and Wii U, All-stars Racing Transformed sold the best on Wii U (as of February 2013, I'm pretty sure the pc version with all the exclusive content is now the best selling version) despite being a late launch title of a console with a small install base, Sonic Colours sold 1.850.000 units by december 2010 and 2.180.000 units by March 2011 while in the same timeframe Sonic Generations sold 1.850.000 units despite being on 4 different platforms and obviously having a much higher budget (of course, just like ASR, Generations was on sale multiple times on Steam and I have no doubt it sold better in the end). I mean, Sega is capable of everything and I would not put past them to completely abandon Nintendo but the sales number don't lie, it would be a pretty stupid decision. Sonic Team could easily develop a Wii U game, up-port the same exact game on PS4/One and PC at 60fps/1080p and let dimps shit out the usual handled version (in this way, unlike Unleashed, they don't need to make 2 separate versions). Generations looked great on360/PS4, I don't see how the extra power of the new-gen console could help apart higher resolution, better framerate and faster load times.

Spoiler

Hell, they should totally make a Sonic Generations Definitive Edition (with additional content) for PS4/One too, and then port the extra content as dlc for the Steam version. Would be a good way to prepare the fanbase for their next game, and it's not like other companies aren't doing the same thing anyway. And I would totally buy Generations for a fifth time