[Sodaholic]

I recently went back and played Sonic Adventure 1. It amazes me how shitty the game feels, having not touched it for years. The controls feel really clunky, Sonic just goes all over the place. The physics feel like shit, the character will spazz out when stepping onto the street from the sidewalk. You can jump into the ceiling and stay stuck there for a brief moment if you continue holding the button.

Then there's the object pop-in, my god it's bad. I've really become accustomed to full view distance in games, I cannot go back. I also cannot accept how horrid the camera is, it is very difficult to control. When I need it to move the most is when it is the least cooperative (like stuck in a tight space).

Some of the level transitions are jarring, especially between sections of Sky Deck. Like, I'll clear the goal of one section, only to be plopped in a completely unrelated place a split-second later. There's also quite a few issues with music cues, sometimes a song will start over midway through a cutscene just because it loaded a new section to show. Other times, when changing songs, it feels jarring because they didn't bother to fade the previous song.

The voice acting and dialog is horrendous. I just use the Japanese voice track, the performances are slightly less shit and I can't cringe as hard when I don't know what they're saying. I like the music though, that part has aged well.

I can't help but feel that the game seriously needed a few more months to be worked on. I have a very hard time enjoying it in its released state. The game also felt much shorter than I remember it. Like, a lot shorter. I finished Sonic's campaign in a couple of hours, and even then I wasn't playing very well. If I actually put effort into it I could probably complete it in an hour or less.

[Glaber]

If I remember right, the DX version actualy has some fixes for the music.

[TheKazeblade]

Sonic Adventure has the core of a great game, but it's marred by technical lack of refinement. It's functional, but I agree it could have used another 6 months of dev time, even when we're talking about SA International. It's functional on a basic level, but lacked polish, and while I think it was passable in 98-99, after 15 or 16 years, it feels like an experimental tech demo.

If they had been able to get SA2-level control and presentation refinement into SA1, it would be a completely different story.

[E-122-Psi]

TheKazeblade, on 05 December 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Sonic Adventure has the core of a great game, but it's marred by technical lack of refinement. It's functional, but I agree it could have used another 6 months of dev time, even when we're talking about SA International. It's functional on a basic level, but lacked polish, and while I think it was passable in 98-99, after 15 or 16 years, it feels like an experimental tech demo.

If they had been able to get SA2-level control and presentation refinement into SA1, it would be a completely different story.

I agree with this more or less. I still find SA1 very enjoyable, but in terms of core concept. Presentation is pretty damn awful. I go through a lot of levels and I enjoy playing them but all the while think 'this COULD have been awesome'.

It's all the more annoying that DX did barely anything to pick it up and only made it's flaws all the more glaring given the passing years and being on a more high tech console.

[Azukara]

Sonic Adventure was an amazing game.. in 1999.

Maybe all the way up to 2005/2006 before standards for 3D games had went past being buggy messes with terrible voice acting (of course not counting Nintendo and sometimes Rare who did mostly good from the get-go). Nowadays it's nearly unplayable after being used to much better camera and collision in games, but most of it's concepts still stand for a really good game.

It's why I wish we would have a proper remake of Adventure. Big's gameplay and Amy's running speed not counting, the rest of the game's ideas and basic structure make what I feel might be still one of the most ambitious, solidly designed 3D Sonics. Plus it's got charm oozing out the ears. Simply playing shoddy ports of ports of ports that somehow make it worse than the Dreamcast version doesn't do the game's merits any justice at all.

If someone can play it and remember the era it was released, they can enjoy it for what it is a lot more. Kinda like Final Fantasy 7 or Ocarina of Time (though it's aged a decent bit better).

This post has been edited by Azukara: 05 December 2014 - 12:36 PM

[Polish Pete]

E-122-Psi, on 05 December 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

TheKazeblade, on 05 December 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Sonic Adventure has the core of a great game, but it's marred by technical lack of refinement. It's functional, but I agree it could have used another 6 months of dev time, even when we're talking about SA International. It's functional on a basic level, but lacked polish, and while I think it was passable in 98-99, after 15 or 16 years, it feels like an experimental tech demo.

If they had been able to get SA2-level control and presentation refinement into SA1, it would be a completely different story.

I agree with this more or less. I still find SA1 very enjoyable, but in terms of core concept. Presentation is pretty damn awful. I go through a lot of levels and I enjoy playing them but all the while think 'this COULD have been awesome'.

It's all the more annoying that DX did barely anything to pick it up and only made it's flaws all the more glaring given the passing years and being on a more high tech console.

All for the idea to convince Sonic Team to make a proper Sonic Adventure 1:1 remake using current HD graphics, current voice cast and cutscenes animated by Marza Animation Planet, please raise your hand and say "Aye!"

[RenyNoise]

I want to disagree with you because I'm actually really good at controlling Sonic in the Adventure series (with a few retries of course). But you're right on the game being buggy and wonky, but I don't think more time in the lab would have fixed those problems. Sega had plenty of time on this title, blame the whole concept of the engine, maybe Sonic wasn't meant for this....... Sonic Adventure 2 improved the engine greatly, but in my opinion Sonic works bests in an Unleashed 3D perspective than he does going the super fast Super Mario 64-esque route.

This post has been edited by RenyNoise: 05 December 2014 - 01:51 PM

[Andrea Ritsu]

I revisited it the first time in years just last week and personally I came out of it thinking the exact opposite from you. I was expecting to have this whole "this game is awful by today's standards" experience that so many other people I know have had with the game but had a great time throughout the campaign.

Sure, the controls and camera are a bit of a mess because of it being an early 3D title, but I never found myself constantly dying or falling off ledges like I would in some of the later Sonic games like Sonic Heroes and I think physics-wise it's my favourite of every 3D entry. But more importantly, what impressed me upon replaying it was how much the game does. We have six characters with very different gameplay rules and have all been fully realized to have their own story that's both a personal separate story and an entwined overarching story leading up towards the end. I was especially impressed with Tails and Amy's storylines actually, something I don't remember being back in 1999.

Honestly, the biggest issue with the game for me was the sub games and Big's stages. Sky Chase and Sand Hill was not any fun to revisit, that's for sure. I didn't even bother with Twinkle Circuit. The regular action stages and exploring the adventure field was something I liked a whole lot, especially because the adventure fields are large enough to explore but small enough to not wander endlessly around nothing wondering what you need to do *coughsonic06coughsonicboomcough* between action stages. And when it comes to Big's stages my issue was more that they were mandatory for the final story than them being a thing overall since I don't actually dislike them all that much. But I also enjoy fishing in games a lot, so that helps.

It has absolutely aged and it does show that quite a whole lot, but I just couldn't stop myself from enjoying the 7-8 hours or whatever I spent playing through the game again. Was actually going to get going on Sonic Adventure 2 next since it's been just as long, if not longer, since I played through that last.

[Irixion]

<Insert words about Sonic 06>


Honestly, once the controls are down it's fun. Some stages were complete shit, and really, DX wasn't really that much improvement. Proper HD remaster PLZ.

[Elston87]

Azukara, on 05 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Sonic Adventure was an amazing game.. in 1999.

Maybe all the way up to 2005/2006 before standards for 3D games had went past being buggy messes with terrible voice acting (of course not counting Nintendo and sometimes Rare who did mostly good from the get-go). Nowadays it's nearly unplayable after being used to much better camera and collision in games, but most of it's concepts still stand for a really good game.

It's why I wish we would have a proper remake of Adventure. Big's gameplay and Amy's running speed not counting, the rest of the game's ideas and basic structure make what I feel might be still one of the most ambitious, solidly designed 3D Sonics. Plus it's got charm oozing out the ears. Simply playing shoddy ports of ports of ports that somehow make it worse than the Dreamcast version doesn't do the game's merits any justice at all.

If someone can play it and remember the era it was released, they can enjoy it for what it is a lot more. Kinda like Final Fantasy 7 or Ocarina of Time (though it's aged a decent bit better).

This is my view on the game; I go back to it and play it like it's 1999. Charm? Oh yeah; every time I play it, I get oodles of nostalgic charm squeezed out of my brain. I always go back to this game and appreciate how ambitious and adventurous the developers were, knowing the development history behind this game, what could have been, and all that stuff. It's just breathing with creative life.

Honestly, the hardest part for me was misguided jumps with the Dreamcast controller's clunky analog stick; you can't even get a grip at all on it sometimes and that factor alone makes for some pretty dodgy jumps in some sections of levels. Other than that, the game at its core was great. Had it been running at 60fps and with less bugs back in the day, this game would have definitely been turning more heads.

[Morph]

Sodaholic, on 05 December 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

I recently went back and played Sonic Adventure 1. It amazes me how shitty the game feels, having not touched it for years. The controls feel really clunky, Sonic just goes all over the place.

So many people say this, and I just cannot relate at all. If anything, I feel like controlling Sonic in SA1 is more precise than most modern games, and that Sonic controlling like a car has spoiled people in this regard. If you want a gradual turn, you should gradually move the analog. These days you might as well be playing with a D-Pad because there's so much interpolation done for you automatically. While I don't have trouble controlling Sonic in Modern games, I think SA1 does it better overall. A hybrid between the two would be fantastic, though.

Sodaholic, on 05 December 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

The physics feel like shit, the character will spazz out when stepping onto the street from the sidewalk. You can jump into the ceiling and stay stuck there for a brief moment if you continue holding the button.

While I can't explain the former, the latter here is simply a matter of implementation. All the game cares about is whether or not you're holding A. If you are, it'll continue increasing your vertical speed until it gets to a certain threshold without regards to collision. Simple as that, really. I don't see how this could really help in ruining the game for you though. You could just not jump into the ceiling.

Sodaholic, on 05 December 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Then there's the object pop-in, my god it's bad. I've really become accustomed to full view distance in games, I cannot go back. I also cannot accept how horrid the camera is, it is very difficult to control. When I need it to move the most is when it is the least cooperative (like stuck in a tight space).

I know trying to justify this stuff really doesn't do anything for anyone, but I'm sure this has to do with the performance issues they ran into back when they tried out 60FPS. IIRC, in all versions of SADX, it isn't nearly as bad.

Sodaholic, on 05 December 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Some of the level transitions are jarring, especially between sections of Sky Deck. Like, I'll clear the goal of one section, only to be plopped in a completely unrelated place a split-second later. There's also quite a few issues with music cues, sometimes a song will start over midway through a cutscene just because it loaded a new section to show. Other times, when changing songs, it feels jarring because they didn't bother to fade the previous song.

The voice acting and dialog is horrendous. I just use the Japanese voice track, the performances are slightly less shit and I can't cringe as hard when I don't know what they're saying. I like the music though, that part has aged well.

I can't help but feel that the game seriously needed a few more months to be worked on. I have a very hard time enjoying it in its released state. The game also felt much shorter than I remember it. Like, a lot shorter. I finished Sonic's campaign in a couple of hours, and even then I wasn't playing very well. If I actually put effort into it I could probably complete it in an hour or less.

Sky Deck really does have some abrupt transitions (if you can even call them that), and that has always bothered me too. As far as I can remember though, it's the only level to have such jarring transitions. Every other level did it quite nicely. I don't find the English voice acting that bad, although I do play primarily with Japanese voices anyway

Those audio issues could be chalked up to engine limitation though. I personally can't blame them for not keeping a track playing when they have to load new assets for a new scene.

I'm surprised you didn't complain about getting lost in the adventure fields like everyone else. You know, because they're so hard to navigate and you definitely don't have a hint thing to tell you exactly where to go

[Chibisteven]

In all honesty other than a few difficult missions in DX (53 & 54) and stuff. The game in the Dreamcast versions and it's later ports is overall a lot less frustrating then it's more unforgiving slightly more polished sequel was and including it's own ports, which often expected you to do things near perfect when going for that one unlockable stage that wasn't really worth all the trouble. Which is marred by it's own problems on top of it. If you wish to complain about controls not being perfect.

Could it be more polished? Certainly. It is a flat out broken ungodly mess? NO. I've played some truly broken 3D games and this is nowhere even near that. It's a typical late 90's game. And if I recall correctly they had their fair share of glitches that were annoying with a lot of 3D games back than.

I feel nitpicking about a track restarting during a cutscene is a bit much as it was quite likely they were actually written that way on purpose with the engine's limitations in mind to maintain an appropriate mood. Do you really want something skipping like crazy when a game loads different assets? It's not a PC game with CD audio playing while the game itself is completely installed on the hard drive and can be run without the disc while loading new assets affair going on. It's a spinning disk that must load new stuff in and out of the system's RAM with no hard drive, type of affair on a console. While running around the Adventure Fields in the Dreamcast version and it restarting upon a new section was not very good, it was eventually fixed in ports that came afterwards. Hinting at engine and system limitations.

This post has been edited by Chibisteven: 05 December 2014 - 09:55 PM

[NickonAquaMagna]

I could care less about how polished a game is as long as the core gameplay is still fun for me. Sonic isn't about refinement, it's about freedom. The games have always been kinda clunky and all over the place, even the genesis games in some ways, but that doesn't stop them from being enjoyable for people who appreciate how crazy they are.

By contrast, Sonic Boom- Rise of Lyric doesn't work this way, because the core gameplay is boring as shit, so the glitches an' whatnot are all we can think about.

I love how Sonic controls in Sonic Adventure. When he goes uphill, he slows down a little bit, and he accelerates a bit when going down hill. I like that you can just turn and go in any direction you want on a dime. I know some people will say that's bad control, but I can't stand how games like Unleashed and even Generations make it so hard to turn when going fast that you need a drift function at all. I LIKE being able to go wherever and do whatever I want no matter how fast I'm going in the Adventure games. Honestly, I find these sorts of controls more liberating than in most Sonic games. Yeah, they're clunky, but so what? Why is that soooo bad? They still work. Like I said, Sonic is about freedom, and in order to have that freedom, well, Sonic needs to be kinda... loose.

Then there's Lost World on the Wii U. In some ways, that's one of the most polished Sonic games yet, and Sonic's controls have been super-refined to a point that he almost feels like a robot to me. Set running speeds an' whatnot make him feel so much less organic than in a "spastic" game like Sonic Adventure where you can basically do whatever. I still like Lost World, but... it's clunky in a very different way that I don't care for much.

I won't even get into Big the Cat and the cutscenes an' whatnot... My experience with Sonic Adventure usually goes like this.

I play through Sonic's campaign, maybe Tails' if I have a bit of extra time on my hands.

I turn the game off.

And that's all I need out of it. No bullshit, just running around, having fun.

[Caniad Bach]

I actually prefer SA1 to SA2 because I think the first one is far more refined. With all it's rehashed levels, shitty backgrounds and clone characters, Sonic Adventure 2 comes off as being rushed as hell.

[Woofmute]

If music plays during loading it just repeats whatever split second of the music was playing when the loading started. I don't know if this would happen in all cases of loading but it's been true so far in the Dreamcast versions. May also be the reason they didn't use the adventure field title card music.