[winterhell]

TheKazeblade, on 19 October 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Sega, uh... please? Please give them the green light? />

SEGA doesn't read English. Try with Kanji next time.

[ICEknight]

TheKazeblade, on 19 October 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Full single-player iterations of the 2P levels?! Yes please.

But nobody said that... I think?


EDIT: Here's what Stealth said:

Quote

In addition to those that were mentioned in relation to the Special Stage and Blue Spheres, we're also very interested in the possibility of expanding the two-player mode zones into full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones.

This doesn't mean they'd be integrated into the main game, guys...

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 19 October 2014 - 04:32 PM

[TheInvisibleSun]

Baldy McNosehair, on 19 October 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

The Taxman, on 18 October 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

steveswede, on 18 October 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

So I'm reading a bit of Stealth's post and it got me wondering about the noticeable load times in the Retro Engine. If Sonic 3 does get the go ahead and the consoles do get say a disc release would you get around that by having the game completely loaded into the ram? Personally I would love to have zero load time as I've always enjoyed the instant loading from the cartridge games.

The load time isn't much, like a couple of frames. But we didn't want any potential stuttering during the fire sequence, hence the nifty work around we did. All the other transitions are on static backgrounds so we probably wouldn't need it. That said, if we weren't happy with how anything was turning out we'd certainly do what it takes to have it on par with the original. Hypothetically speaking, of course />/>

Does this mean you guys started from scratch in recreating S3K, or were you able to use most of the same Retro Engine from S1, 2, and CD? The physics don't seem like they are any different, just some of the techniques for rendering backgrounds.

You guys have a much better judgement than Sega of what should be faithfully identical to the original game and where to make enhancements, like the use of 3D rendering and improved rotation effects in special stages. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is fairly easy for a Sonic game, has there ever been talk about ways to make the game more challenging?

And as for Lord Nero's suggestion, it looks like a good idea and some free levels would kick ass, but I don't know that I would integrate them into the main story. The music seems too cheery, but it's also too good to waste. I'm more of a fan of adding them extra levels after the first playthrough. Then again, if I were to put each level in a certain place...

• I would put Azure Lake between Hydrocity and Marble Garden and sort of explain it away as Hydrocity being at the bottom of the lake, similar to Atlantis.
  
• I would put Balloon Park as a hidden shortcut in CNZ Act 2, where the barrel of death is. If you move the barrel up and down hard enough and then jump at the top of the barrels rising motion, I would have it launch Sonic into a transition into Balloon Park and bypass the boss (which is essentially a reversioning of the Hydrocity boss except less fun) into a new and better boss.
  
• I would put Chrome Gadget in between Launch Base and Mushroom Hill. Instead of Sonic just falling through the sky as night turns into day in the end of Sonic 3, this stage would better explain what happens the night before Mushroom Hill.
  
• And Desert Palace logically seems like a fit between Flying Battery and Sandopolis. Instead of having Sonic jump out of the ship when he does, the ship could land over in Desert Palace.
  
• And that leaves Endless Mine between Sandopolis and Lava Reef. The motif fits well between the two zones given the proximity of the Death Egg and Eggman's need for energy sources to support its reconstruction and the rebuilding of his robots until he steals the Master Emerald, not to mention the consistency between Endless Mine and Lava Reef Act 1.

But this is all assuming Sega would approve of extending the game like that, and that Taxman and Stealth have the time and are given the resources by Sega to recreate full size versions of the tiles and objects from the 2P levels. On top of that, who would compose the music for the levels?

Perhaps there could be a new game plus, where Knuckles helps you reach places instead of knocking you down. After Angel Island, Knuckles' switch raises a platform and you follow him to Azure Lake. After Carnival Night, you have the option follow Knuckles to Balloon Park instead of him turning off the lights.

[Roller]

You goddamn tease.

[Lord Nero]

ICEknight, on 19 October 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

TheKazeblade, on 19 October 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Full single-player iterations of the 2P levels?! Yes please.

But nobody said that... I think?


EDIT: Here's what Stealth said:

Quote

In addition to those that were mentioned in relation to the Special Stage and Blue Spheres, we're also very interested in the possibility of expanding the two-player mode zones into full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones.

This doesn't mean they'd be integrated into the main game, guys...

That quote is in direct reference to additions/goodies though, whereas full screen competition mode is more of an expected feature. Also, full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones. The actual competition stages are far from full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones, more just, a simple track.

[DigitalDuck]

Lord Nero, on 19 October 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

That quote is in direct reference to additions/goodies though, whereas full screen competition mode is more of an expected feature. Also, full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones. The actual competition stages are far from full-sized, fully-featured, single-act zones, more just, a simple track. />

But nowhere does it even imply that they would have been featured in the main story alongside the other zones. That's the point.

[Lord Nero]

DigitalDuck, on 19 October 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

But nowhere does it even imply that they would have been featured in the main story alongside the other zones. That's the point.

That's...true.
I guess he could simply mean expanding the levels only under competition mode, and making them akin to actual levels from the main game. Would probably be much simpler convincing Sega of that instead of making them main game inclusions as well.
I like my idea better though.

EDIT: One thing about that idea that just doesn't sit right with me is, if the 2 player levels end up being expanded to act akin to main game levels, then why not include them somehow in the main game?

This post has been edited by Lord Nero: 19 October 2014 - 06:01 PM

[sonicblur]

Lord Nero, on 19 October 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

DigitalDuck, on 19 October 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

But nowhere does it even imply that they would have been featured in the main story alongside the other zones. That's the point.

That's...true.
I guess he could simply mean expanding the levels only under competition mode, and making them akin to actual levels from the main game. Would probably be much simpler convincing Sega of that instead of making them main game inclusions as well.
I like my idea better though. />

EDIT: One thing about that idea that just doesn't sit right with me is, if the 2 player levels end up being expanded to act akin to main game levels, then why not include them somehow in the main game?

The main game itself is already of a reasonable size. There's no pressing need to see it get any bigger.

That being said, after Sonic 2, Sonic 3's competition mode was kind of a letdown since a lap of each stage was maybe 15 seconds long at most. This is why I think the idea of expanding those stages makes sense.... Have the original laps as an option, but also have actual stages to encourage people to play multi-player especially since it's easier to play with people online. There would be nothing stopping them from throwing those stages into Level select for anyone who wants to play them alone.

It's pointless to argue about it though, I think all of the decisions they made with Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 turned out well, and I trust whatever they'd end up doing with 3K would be great too.

[Baldy McNosehair]

Again, I would not bet on the 2P levels being recreated into full single-player levels.

• The levels would need to have all of their tiles redone in higher resolution.
  
• The music would have to be redone because as good as it is, most of it doesn't fit with the other music from single-player.
  
• S3K is already a HUGE game.
  
• The levels would need to be expanded into full levels with epic bosses and original enemies.

If they were going to do that, they might as well make Sonic The Hedgehog 5. I love the idea, and it would be the best thing they ever did, but I don't see something so big and epic as 5 new levels in addition to extra special stages with new gimmicks materializing as horrible as that sounds. Time constraints stopped Desert Dazzle and Final Fever from happening, and that was even with the assumption that Taxman and Sega were completely ok with implementing finished levels with unfitting recycled music.

It could happen if S3K were sold for twice the price of any of the other Sonic remakes, but it's still a stretch. I'd pay $10 for such a definitive version of S3K, but that's just me. With all the work done on this engine and Stealth's own HCGE, It's pretty obvious though that there are a couple uses for the Retro engine much bigger and better than remaking the original series *hint-hint*. They're probably just waiting for Sega to wise up and let them do it.

This post has been edited by Baldy McNosehair: 19 October 2014 - 06:58 PM

[ICEknight]

sonicblur, on 19 October 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Have the original laps as an option

For example, the Competition game could have an "Omega Mode" switch like in Smash Bros 4, turning the selected level into a simplified, 3-lap version of it with no enemies.

One can dream.

Baldy McNosehair, on 19 October 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

If they were going to do that, they might as well make Sonic The Hedgehog 5.

Could be the first step towards that.


Well, that and Sonic 4 Classic. Retconning that episodic disaster just needs to be done before moving the Classic branch forward.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 19 October 2014 - 07:11 PM

[Stealth]

sonicblur, on 18 October 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Just an random note on the Gumball machine topic; It could be a regional thing, but I've never found it unusual to refer to a toy capsule machine as a gumball machine, even if it has toy capsules in it. In most supermarkets, they usually used the exact same machines for both balls of gum and toy capsules, so they could empty the gumballs out and replace them with toy capsules or vice versa. To me it always referred to the style of machine where you turn the knob and a round object falls out, as opposed to specifically being for gum. (E.g "I want the toy in that gumball machine")

It's less about the machine itself and more about what comes out of it. Whoever was responsible for writing the English-language manuals has English-speaking fans and media referring to them as "gumballs", and at least one magazine (the recently posted issue 2 of the UK's "Official Sega Magazine") goes as far as to describe the consistency of one of them as "chewy"

Other than that, I know they're just a type of general vending machine and how they're used can vary by location, but you've got to admit to the inaccuracy of qualifying the machine with the word "Gumball" when there's something else inside :P



(^ Relevant comic quickly done by Liz)

big smile, on 19 October 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

In Stealth's blog there are manaul translations by Yash and Liz. Do any more of these exist? Are Yash and Liz community members or Sega staff?

Neither; Yasha is a friend of mine from a long time ago who has an interest in Japanese, and Liz is my wife

The translated pages were made specifically for my blog post to better illustrate my point about the Bonus Stage, which, as I said, is also why it's a near-literal translation and not westernized. The English text was edited directly in place of the original Japanese text on an image pulled from the Retro wiki, which was originally from Sonic Jam, and those appear to be shrunken-down versions of the source images that were used for printing

Personally, I've wanted to see complete translations of the Japanese manuals done like this for a while myself, but it's a lot to ask for. The Kanji and reading aids are unreadable in the Sonic Jam versions so anyone doing the translations would need to have the original manuals or at least higher-quality images (the ones on my blog were taken by Taxman), and the actual editing would work out better with higher-quality images too, which would require somebody who had the manuals and was willing to subject them to a proper, flat scanning. If there were such a person, I'm sure people would be happy to see those on the wiki, too :P

various said:

[Where to put the 2P stages in the main game]

Hidden Palace was an exception and not a precedent; the rule is to be highly selective about how the original game is modified, if at all. If these levels were to be done, they'd only be accessible outside of the main game in an area like the Time Attack menu, which was the plan for Marathon Base. This also applies to the Blue Spheres concepts; they would appear only in an entirely separate mode - what I've been calling "Blue Spheres 2"

[Dark Sonic]

Were you guys planning on re-implementing Robotnik's traps

[Baldy McNosehair]

Stealth, on 19 October 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

various said:

[Where to put the 2P stages in the main game]

Hidden Palace was an exception and not a precedent; the rule is to be highly selective about how the original game is modified, if at all. If these levels were to be done, they'd only be accessible outside of the main game in an area like the Time Attack menu, which was the plan for Marathon Base. This also applies to the Blue Spheres concepts; they would appear only in an entirely separate mode - what I've been calling "Blue Spheres 2"

So making 1P levels out of the graphics and music of the 2P levels hasn't been ruled out? If you don't mind me asking, what is the interest in fleshing these levels with their tiny tilesets consisting of only a small handful of tiles? You'd have to create original enemies or recreate scrapped enemies, construct new boss battles, and all-around do a shit-ton of work to make it happen. It almost seems for efficient and more noteworthy to make original levels from scratch.

Besides that, isn't getting the existing remakes onto other platforms of greater interest?

[BlackHole]

Wasn't Hidden Palace a single act Zone? Pretty sure if the 2P Stages did get upgraded they'd be hidden around the game like HPZ was in Sonic 2 2013.

[JcFerggy]

I'm going to be completely ignorant with this question, but we're the Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 mobile ports profitable? Like I know we all like to joke about Sega not wanting our money, but is it documented anywhere how profitable the games were? How much are they to maintain as well with updates to both the iTunes and Google Play stores. I at least know there was a cost involved for patching the console ports of Sonic CD. Could it be that the remake is just not worth the cost for Sega?