[Josh]

Hope you guys like it! I'm hoping to have the final part out by Friday or so.

EDIT: And the conclusion is here:

This post has been edited by Josh: 13 September 2014 - 01:45 PM

[TimmiT]

Not bad, just two things:

- I don't recommend using a graphics filter on those games, it might look acceptable enough on the 16-bit games but it just looks like a mess when used on 8-bit.

- Sonic Chronicles has far worse music than Sonic Eraser, this is fact.

Aside from that, I didn't agree with everything but overall I think it's a good retrospective of the spin-off games.

[steveswede]

Loved the video, though my opinion differs when it comes to Sonic 2 SMS which is my favourite out of the SMS main series and disagree with your criticisms, each to their own. I find Sonic Chaos broken in the physics department. It's great that extra improvements were made with loops but controlling jumps are all over the place and the level layouts I find really boring accept for Gigalopolis Zone, plus it's too damn easy.

[Overlord]

Whereas I believe that Chaos is the best of the lot and 1 & 2 are both fairly dull. Opinions, etc. =P

That said, here's a piece of objective advice - you need to not use filters on your footage. The Sonic Drift stuff especially looked awful.

[steveswede]

If there is one thing I really loved in Sonic 1 SMS that I felt wasn't executed right I would say Jungle Zone act 2. I absolutely loved the idea of going pure vertical for an act but felt that the insta death screen made it less fun. That act would have been far more memorable if it scrapped that and had it scroll infinitely horizontal plus some awesome platforming mechanics to complement it.

[Josh]

TimmiT, on 07 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

- I don't recommend using a graphics filter on those games, it might look acceptable enough on the 16-bit games but it just looks like a mess when used on 8-bit.

Overlord, on 07 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

That said, here's a piece of objective advice - you need to not use filters on your footage. The Sonic Drift stuff especially looked awful.

Yeah, sorry about that. It shouldn't happen again. I was roughly halfway through capping my footage when I realized I'd forgotten to turn that off, so not all of the games have it. I tend to like the graphic filters when I'm just playing the games, but I prefer to turn it off and go for accuracy when I'm getting footage, since I know not everyone does and YouTube/MP4 compression will just exacerbate the problem.

It's sort of interesting how little consensus there is when it comes to the 8-bit platformers. With 16-bit, just about everyone goes for S3&K or Sonic CD. With 8-bit, opinions diverge a lot more.

Though I suspect I probably wouldn't be so hard on Sonic 2 if I'd played it on the Master System first.

TimmiT, on 07 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

- Sonic Chronicles has far worse music than Sonic Eraser, this is fact.

HOLY SHIT, THAT SUCKS. I never got very far in Chronicles. Okay, it's giving me a headache, I'm turning it off. Wasn't there a bit of controversy over Bioware taking fan MIDIs for Chronicles?

TimmiT, on 07 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Aside from that, I didn't agree with everything but overall I think it's a good retrospective of the spin-off games.

Well, I didn't want the series to be strictly objective. Heck, I spent most of the Sonic 2 video talking about my own history as a gamer. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it!

[steveswede]

TimmiT, on 07 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Sonic Chronicles has far worse music than Sonic Eraser, this is fact.

HOLY SHIT this is torture to listen to. Fucking hell 8 bit Sonic is going to have a ball this Halloween with this and his laughing sprite combined.

[E-122-Psi]

I'm loving these retrospectives.

I'm in agreement over Mean Bean Machine, probably the most addictive spin off (considering your complaints over Wacky Worlds I'm surprised you had nothing to say on it's obscurity Sonic-wise however, he's not even in it). I think I might be among the few who thought Labyrinth was an okay game. It wasn't a good SONIC game, but I thought the concept was workable for what it was, if not that stunning. I actually like Eraser's themes too. Triple Trouble has just as many 'spontaneous bashing of keys' tunes.

Concerning the Game Gear games, I tend to side with the Sonic and Tails titles. Chaos was good, if as said in an above comment, too basic and easy in terms of level gameplay. Triple Trouble was the most polished title, though it's a shame it never got a Master System release (outside the mentioned fan port). I always felt on a leash with the Game Gear's screen. The first two titles were fun, but kinda dumbed down and a tad cheap in terms of difficulty (even on the Master System version there's a bit too much blind jumping necessary for Sonic 2).

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 07 September 2014 - 03:54 PM

[Josh]

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm loving these retrospectives.

Thank you!

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm in agreement over Mean Bean Machine, probably the most addictive spin off (considering your complaints over Wacky Worlds I'm surprised you had nothing to say on it's obscurity Sonic-wise however, he's not even in it). I think I might be among the few who thought Labyrinth was an okay game. It wasn't a good SONIC game, but I thought the concept was workable for what it was, if not that stunning. I actually like Eraser's themes too. Triple Trouble has just as many 'spontaneous bashing of keys' tunes.

Heh, well, at one time, I wasn't planning to cover games that Sonic himself didn't star in. So no Tails Adventure, Sky Patrol, Music Maker, or Knuckles Chaotix. But then I realized I wouldn't be able to talk about Mean Bean if I followed that rule, so I threw all those games back in just so I could tell people how awesome Mean Bean is. xD That's probably why I forgot to mention it.

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Concerning the Game Gear games, I tend to side with the Sonic and Tails titles. Chaos was good, if as said in an above comment, too basic and easy in terms of level gameplay. Triple Trouble was the most polished title, though it's a shame it never got a Master System release (outside the mentioned fan port). I always felt on a leash with the Game Gear's screen. The first two titles were fun, but kinda dumbed down and a tad cheap in terms of difficulty (even on the Master System version there's a bit too much blind jumping necessary for Sonic 2).

Yeah, I actually wouldn't have minded Triple Trouble getting a port to the Genesis. It would've been a better way for Sonic to conclude the Genesis series than 3D Blast.

[Ravenfreak]

I love the 8-bit titles, though I didn't even knew about them until 2005 when I unlocked Sonic 1 in Sonic Adventure DX. I personally like Chaos the best, and I have no issues with Labyrinth. It's an okay game, definitely far from the best Sonic game but Sonic Blast is slightly worse IMO. Triple Trouble is a pretty fun game, but the music isn't that great aside from a few tracks. :\ I love Chaos' soundtrack, aside from the Game Gear intro. I love how Sonic 2 8-bit is difficult while Sonic Chaos is easy. I suppose they felt that they needed to tone down the difficulty a bit after Sonic 2. Wonderful as always Josh, I have enjoyed everyone of your retrospectives so far and can't wait to watch your next video.

[E-122-Psi]

I similarly got the 8bit titles through SADX. There's a reason that refuelled my fondness for Sonic once more.

Concerning Mean Bean, I remember hating it as a kid, I wasn't interested much in puzzle games, and it was a travesty to have a Sonic game without Sonic or Tails (at that age, you don't appreciate Eggman and the cool villains, you need a cute animal mascot to cling to). I went back to it when older and was hooked. The gameplay, the graphics, the music, I actually like it more than the original Puyo game. I can see why so many Mega Collection reviews would place it with the main series in replay ability.

I can give Blast at least some credit for having playable Knuckles. It looked like shit and the physics were broken, but there were at least odd fun bits such as some of the bosses.

I feel the Drift games would have held up better if not for the difficulty issues. Drift 1 was usually too easy, making it kinda dull, while Drift 2 had a ridiculously cheap rubber band physics with the CPU, making it more dumb luck and timing to win a race.

I remember being sorta addicted to Spinball concerning it's hardness, and it was fun unlocking puzzles and getting that tiny bit further. I usually gave up at The Machine however, it seemed more mindless lucky bouncing to win that one. 8 bit Spinball I remember playing for about five minutes before getting bored.

It would be interesting to see a lot of these games explored and more compatible with hacking. Editing the trilogy is fun, but there's potential in the spin offs, especially since they have more glaring imperfections. Who wouldn't want a Tails in SMS Sonic 2, or a Sonic Chaos Hard Mode? :D

Does this mean you will or won't be reviewing the Knuckles and Tails games in Part Two? I thought they came before Blast.

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 07 September 2014 - 09:25 PM

[steveswede]

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Who wouldn't want a Tails in SMS Sonic 2

I have been working on fixes to the Tails sprites plus adding new ones (additional walking animations are done, just need to start the hang gliding ones) , I just haven't got around to finishing them. It's something I was working on with Ravenfreak that I hope to get finished (which I'm hoping to start again at the end of this month when I get my desktop PC).

@Ravenfreak

I haven't forgotten about our little project, I will PM you when they are complete.

[Josh]

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Does this mean you will or won't be reviewing the Knuckles and Tails games in Part Two? I thought they came before Blast.

They did, but I wanted to get through all the 8-bit platformers in part 1, so the "other character spin-offs" will likely be opening the next episode. Besides, (1991-1995 except for games starring other characters [with the exception of Tails & the Music Maker] and also Sonic Blast is in this one) would have been a bit silly.

[Polish Pete]

Josh, on 07 September 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

Heh, well, at one time, I wasn't planning to cover games that Sonic himself didn't star in. So no Tails Adventure, Sky Patrol, Music Maker, or Knuckles Chaotix. But then I realized I wouldn't be able to talk about Mean Bean if I followed that rule, so I threw all those games back in just so I could tell people how awesome Mean Bean is. xD That's probably why I forgot to mention it.

I do hope you include those games in the next part.

This post has been edited by Polish Pete: 08 September 2014 - 02:55 AM

[E-122-Psi]

steveswede, on 07 September 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

E-122-Psi, on 07 September 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Who wouldn't want a Tails in SMS Sonic 2

I have been working on fixes to the Tails sprites plus adding new ones (additional walking animations are done, just need to start the hang gliding ones) , I just haven't got around to finishing them. It's something I was working on with Ravenfreak that I hope to get finished (which I'm hoping to start again at the end of this month when I get my desktop PC).

@Ravenfreak

I haven't forgotten about our little project, I will PM you when they are complete.

You have my interest. :D Especially if you manage to implement flying, which would cut down the difficulty of the game by about 80%.