[SubCog]

Despite my nostalgia for the old Genesis Sonic games, nowadays when I revisit them I can't help but complain about the small field-of-view. Sonic runs so fast, and you're view of the upcoming environment is so limited, that its impossible to react to obstacles without relying on total memorization.

I've found the widescreen in the Retro engine games to be a massive improvement... but I can't help thinking that I would like to take that further. Maybe there should be a field-of-view setting, to allow the player to decide how much they'd like to see? On an HD tv, I think I'd really like to pull the camera back quite a ways. This would allow me to focus less on memorizing levels and more on the skill of navigating around things. It could make it easier to make decisions about which paths to take as well.

Another way to handle it could be like the 2d levels in Sonic Generations, where the camera automatically pulls back as your speed increases. Not sure if that would be possible, but it'd be super slick.

On a side note, anyone remember how tiny the fov was in Sonic on the gamegear? Sonic takes up like half the screen! Makes it very difficult to play.


For me, this would make the sonic games virtually perfect. Any thoughts? Anyone disagree?

[Covarr]

It makes the games worse.



edit: But it makes Comix Zone amazing.

This post has been edited by Covarr: 02 September 2014 - 03:52 PM

[SubCog]

Haha, that's probably a bit more extreme than what I was picturing.

I think adding another 50-100% viewable area could be really helpful, without showing the entire map like that.

This post has been edited by SubCog: 02 September 2014 - 03:58 PM

[ICEknight]

SubCog, on 02 September 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Another way to handle it could be like the 2d levels in Sonic Generations, where the camera automatically pulls back as your speed increases. Not sure if that would be possible, but it'd be super slick.

That's what Sonic CD does... but anyway, except for Aspect's Game Gear games (which should be played in Master System screen mode), I think the classic Sonics have plenty of screen to react without resorting to memorization.

Which is precisely one of the main things that separated Sonic from Zool, Bubsy or Awesome Possum, in my oppinion.

[Captain L]

I was playing Sonic 2 on my iPod earlier, and that's pretty much what the Taxman ports do, especially if you've got a wider iPhone/iPod. The amount of extra screen space it provides compared to a Genesis game is almost unbelievable.

[Hez]

I did it once. It was meh...I can upload a video if anyone wants?

[Covarr]

ICEknight, on 02 September 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Which is precisely one of the main things that separated Sonic from Zool, Bubsy or Awesome Possum, in my oppinion.

Rayman, in his original game, is bigger than Bubsy or Awesome Possum or Zool, and has no such problems. It's all a matter of designing levels that suit your engine and sprites. A great example of this is the classic Prince of Persia. The prince takes up a larger chunk of the screen than Sonic ever has, but for such a slow and precise game, it's not an issue. Hell, that game compounds it by having no scrolling whatsoever, and yet it still works fine.

The only Sonic games I ever felt had a problem with the FOV were Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix. Sonic CD had dick object placement designed to fuck you up, and often didn't give adequate time for the player to react, a problem that they were apparently aware of and attempted to mitigate fancy camera movement, but it wasn't really enough. Knuckles Chaotix's bonding mechanic causes characters to be at extreme edges of the screen constantly with no proper visibility in front of 'em, but it's not an issue because the level designers went on vacation and forgot to put obstacles in most of the game.

But Sonic 1-3K? Those games knew their screen real estate limitations, and designed within them. When the player has a genuine opportunity to go fast enough that it might be an issue, rolling protects them from enemies. Usually the game will actively stop the player before an area that requires a slower pace, so they don't find themselves spindashing in a seemingly safe area and then careening into a pit of lava. Even Wing Fortress Zone, which is set entirely above a giant bottomless pit, makes it pretty constantly clear when it's safe to spindash and not, and generally does a good job protecting the player from FOV-related problems.

edit: I can't believe I forgot to bring this up, but one major reason for a limited FOV is that it helps instill a sense of speed, regardless of what your speed actually is. You zoom out too far, the game is gonna feel slower, because Sonic is gaining less distance per second relative to the screen. Sonic's speed relative to himself is ultimately inconsequential, where exhilaration and advertising point blast processing is concerned.

This post has been edited by Covarr: 02 September 2014 - 04:56 PM

[SubCog]

Hez, on 02 September 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I did it once. It was meh...I can upload a video if anyone wants?

Yes?

[.Luke]

Is anybody going to mention Sonic Rush? Seriously, though. You had two whole screens to see where you were going, and that combined with a seek-ahead camera was really nice. Besides a few death pits I couldn't see coming, navigating my way through both Rush games, and Sonic Colors DS, was never a problem. I could find shortcuts, see tons of hazards coming, and save myself from falling if I could see a spring or platform to recover on.

Don't even get me started on Sonic Advance 3, though. Even memorization is a huge problem with how ridiculously tiny the resolution is. Dimps worked well within the limitations of a screen fit for a mouse, but you can only do so much.

[Black Squirrel]

I've never had a problem, and the games that do this (aka Jazz Jackrabbit 2) probably take it too far?

I do think there's a case to be made with 3D games and draw distance though, or specifically, what's the point in a widescreen Sonic Adventure 2 when you move forward into the level. But that's something different I guess.

[Sodaholic]

Honestly, I do agree with the OP that there's too little room up ahead to see. I don't play Sonic nearly as often as I did 10 years ago, and thus I'm a little rusty. I think it's unfair to not consider players that aren't as skilled or out of practice.

While I don't think the view is that suffocating and I usually can react, there are times that I wish I had more than 160 pixels of visible area to react (a bit less due to the camera deadzone) to when going at a speed meaning that that part of the screen only lasts about 44 centiseconds. I'm disappointed that Sonic CD is the only game to have done the seek-ahead camera. I suppose widescreen accomplishes the same thing, but ideally, I'd prefer widescreen + seek-ahead.

[SubCog]

ICEknight, on 02 September 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

SubCog, on 02 September 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Another way to handle it could be like the 2d levels in Sonic Generations, where the camera automatically pulls back as your speed increases. Not sure if that would be possible, but it'd be super slick.

That's what Sonic CD does... but anyway, except for Aspect's Game Gear games (which should be played in Master System screen mode), I think the classic Sonics have plenty of screen to react without resorting to memorization.

Which is precisely one of the main things that separated Sonic from Zool, Bubsy or Awesome Possum, in my oppinion.

I see what you're saying, but that's not what I meant by "the camera automatically pulls back". Check out what happens at about 0:23 in this video:


Generations does great stuff with the camera on the 2d levels. Also notice how small sonic is, even when the camera is at its closest.

This post has been edited by SubCog: 03 September 2014 - 12:40 PM

[Dude]

SubCog, on 02 September 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Despite my nostalgia for the old Genesis Sonic games, nowadays when I revisit them I can't help but complain about the small field-of-view. Sonic runs so fast, and you're view of the upcoming environment is so limited, that its impossible to react to obstacles without relying on total memorization.

I've found the widescreen in the Retro engine games to be a massive improvement... but I can't help thinking that I would like to take that further. Maybe there should be a field-of-view setting, to allow the player to decide how much they'd like to see? On an HD tv, I think I'd really like to pull the camera back quite a ways. This would allow me to focus less on memorizing levels and more on the skill of navigating around things. It could make it easier to make decisions about which paths to take as well.

Another way to handle it could be like the 2d levels in Sonic Generations, where the camera automatically pulls back as your speed increases. Not sure if that would be possible, but it'd be super slick.

This is impossible on the genesis hardware. Also, zooming would change the way the game behaves. Remember that many objects only exist to the game when onscreen. What you are asking for is definitely possible in the remakes (Unless the engine was explicitly designed to disallow that sort of thing, but I doubt it because you'd engineer your platform to be as future-proof as possible). In short, this feature will never show up in rom hacks, but might show up in fangames. It probably won't show up in future issues of the re-makes because it would be considered changing the way the game plays.

[Nemo]

It always did seem to me that the most difficult aspect of the Genesis games was trying to react to what was coming up. A wider field of view seems like it's a great addition to those remakes. I suppose the alternative for the Genesis games would have been to have the camera lead Sonic a little. Dunno.

The equivalent in the 3D games might be Unleashed's excessive fish-eye effect, since it makes all the upcoming obstacles harder to detect. Guess it's the price for speed.

[Spinksy]

I've never seen it as an issue.

However this is what Sonic Xtreme was trying to eliminate with the fisheye view.