[Josh]

[TimmiT]

First off: I never really paid much attention to your videos, so this is really my first one aside from your Vita video review, which I thought was kinda bad. This video however is far better and now I'm more interested in checking out your other ones. I think it perfectly describes why Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) is the best Sonic game. Good job.

[Dark Sonic]

Ah Sonic 3. My number 1 favorite game of all time. I'm so happy I was able to contribute to the Sonic 3 Complete project, if only in a small way by making the Japanese style box art (I'm also in the credits). Other Sonic games to me are all over the place with what they're ranked given how I feel, but Sonic 3 will not only alway be my favorite Sonic game, but my favorite game period.

It makes me so sad that Sega continues to ignore its existence...

[Jen]

Wonderful video, Josh. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my favourite game of all time, and I think this video does an excellent job of explaining just why it's so damn good. I found myself nodding in agreement with what you were saying on quite a few occasions (and I've gotta say, that "oldschool reference" really made me laugh ;P).

I also went back and watched your other Sonic retrospective videos after I saw this one, and they were all very nicely done as well

If you're going to be covering the rest of the series as well, then I'm looking forward to it!

[SaviourDCX]

Awesome review! You gave me a reason to play Sonic 3K again! Your video showed me I can turn off the music in Sonic 3 Complete! Now I can enjoy S3K and play thumping beats with only the sound effects on! :D

[Sonic Warrior TJ]

Your Retrospective series has been great so far, Josh! Are you going to keep going with these reviews, or is Sonic 3 the last one? Totally understandable if it is, so don't feel like you have to keep 'em coming unless you want to man.

[Mercury]

Another great video! Although I am a little biased, because it echoes my sentiments exactly.

It's pretty humorous, actually, how much of the video is taken up with simply explaining how much awesome new stuff was in the game. It's a great illustration of just how huge of a leap over its predecessors it was.

[Tanks]

Loved this iteration of Sonic reviews, as usual, but I'm going to have to argue against your use of Lava Reef as good level design. I personally do not enjoy Sandopolis Zone, with act 2 alone taking me almost 6-7 minutes to complete on average, and to have to trudge through that claustrophobic mess of rock after that is so mind numbing. I literally only play through it with Sonic 3 Complete just so I can run through on casual. Its like I go brain dead. Luckily I'm brought back to the land of the living come boss time simply because the following chain of levels starts with one of the best boss fights (Lava Reef) in the game and ends with the most iconic bosses in the history of the series (Fuggin' Doomsday). Really, this just ends up being opinion, but eh... I still think when you zoom out to show LR's scale, that's more evidence towards my point than your point of forethought.

But no fucking doubt, S3&K is essentially one of the best games to ever grace this green earth of ours, of course, again, opinion, but FUCK you cannot deny the overall forethought that went into it, from the brilliant means of story telling without even the need to pick of a manual, to the often perfect level design befitting a classic sonic game.

Spoiler

also mj lol

EDIT: Also, final note. A bit disappointed you didn't make mention to the fact that they had so many ideas on the table they actually scrapped them from the Sonic 3 ROM for use in S3&K, like the changed level order ala Flying Battery.

So... We talking Sonic 3D Blast next? (Or Spinball? Either's cool by me )

This post has been edited by Tanks: 17 August 2014 - 01:51 AM

[W.A.C.]

Great video, though I must ask, what are your thoughts on the time limit for the levels in S3&K and the lack of control over the ability to turn super? S3&K is one of my favorite games of all time, but I hate those two aspects to the games. Sometimes I want to turn super and sometimes I don't. And I'm the type of person who loves to explore the hell out of levels, so I find the time limit a real disincentive for those who want to explore and not much of a threat to those who want to speed through the levels. If those two aspects of the game weren't there, S3&K would probably be my absolute favorite game of all time.

Edit-

Oh, how could I forget to bring up the art direction inconsistencies with the Tails sprites? I hate how the art for Tails is so inconsistent in this game because Sonic Team took the lazy route by modifying a bunch of Sonic 2 sprites.

This post has been edited by W.A.C.: 17 August 2014 - 03:35 AM

[winterhell]

You played S&K before S3 as well? Cool. I got S&K January '95.

[Dark Sonic]

W.A.C., on 17 August 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Great video, though I must ask, what are your thoughts on the time limit for the levels in S3&K and the lack of control over the ability to turn super? S3&K is one of my favorite games of all time, but I hate those two aspects to the games. Sometimes I want to turn super and sometimes I don't. And I'm the type of person who loves to explore the hell out of levels, so I find the time limit a real disincentive for those who want to explore and not much of a threat to those who want to speed through the levels. If those two aspects of the game weren't there, S3&K would probably be my absolute favorite game of all time.

Edit-

Oh, how could I forget to bring up the art direction inconsistencies with the Tails sprites? I hate how the art for Tails is so inconsistent in this game because Sonic Team took the lazy route by modifying a bunch of Sonic 2 sprites.

Compared to Sonic 2, you have much more control over turning super. At least it required a double jump, and if you have a shield active it doesn't turn on.

And I love how, not only did Sonic team not whip up new Tails sprites (well, they made a few new ones to replace the old ones), but whenever a fan game exists it's extremely rare to see a new sprite set for Tails.

[Josh]

TimmiT, on 16 August 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

First off: I never really paid much attention to your videos, so this is really my first one aside from your Vita video review, which I thought was kinda bad. This video however is far better and now I'm more interested in checking out your other ones. I think it perfectly describes why Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) is the best Sonic game. Good job. />

Hah, well, the Vita video was back when I was still worried about losing people's interest if I rambled on too long. Plus, I had to make use of my archaic camera. PLUS plus, I've got another few months of experience under my belt now. Glad I'm making progress!

Jen, on 16 August 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

(and I've gotta say, that "oldschool reference" really made me laugh ;P).

Haha, yeah, I didn't know if that'd be too obscure, but I decided to go with it.

Sonic Warrior TJ, on 16 August 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

Your Retrospective series has been great so far, Josh! Are you going to keep going with these reviews, or is Sonic 3 the last one? Totally understandable if it is, so don't feel like you have to keep 'em coming unless you want to man.

There's still some more Sonic left in the tank. This week I'm covering the hacking contest, and after that, I'm doing a video wrapping up everything pre-Sonic Adventure. After that I'll step away from Sonic for a while, but my intention is to eventually cover every single game in the series.

Mercury, on 17 August 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

Another great video! Although I am a little biased, because it echoes my sentiments exactly.

Yeah, I feel like I'm preaching to the choir around here, haha.

Tanks, on 17 August 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Loved this iteration of Sonic reviews, as usual, but I'm going to have to argue against your use of Lava Reef as good level design. I personally do not enjoy Sandopolis Zone, with act 2 alone taking me almost 6-7 minutes to complete on average, and to have to trudge through that claustrophobic mess of rock after that is so mind numbing. I literally only play through it with Sonic 3 Complete just so I can run through on casual. Its like I go brain dead. Luckily I'm brought back to the land of the living come boss time simply because the following chain of levels starts with one of the best boss fights (Lava Reef) in the game and ends with the most iconic bosses in the history of the series (Fuggin' Doomsday). Really, this just ends up being opinion, but eh... I still think when you zoom out to show LR's scale, that's more evidence towards my point than your point of forethought.

But no fucking doubt, S3&K is essentially one of the best games to ever grace this green earth of ours, of course, again, opinion, but FUCK you cannot deny the overall forethought that went into it, from the brilliant means of story telling without even the need to pick of a manual, to the often perfect level design befitting a classic sonic game.

Spoiler

also mj lol />

EDIT: Also, final note. A bit disappointed you didn't make mention to the fact that they had so many ideas on the table they actually scrapped them from the Sonic 3 ROM for use in S3&K, like the changed level order ala Flying Battery.

So... We talking Sonic 3D Blast next? (Or Spinball? Either's cool by me />)

Eh, Lava Reef is one of my favorites, act 1 especially. Like you said, it's all opinion. There's plenty I didn't cover, that's the crazy thing. I could pretty easily do another 15-minute video on this game if I wanted to. I didn't say a word about the music, didn't talk about Doomsday, the mural on the wall of Hidden Palace, that elevator in Launch Base that goes up if you're Tails, the changes in S&K Collection and how some people prefer those tracks, the details of the changes in Sonic 3 Complete, the S3C beta for that matter... yeah, I could probably just talk about Sonic 3 for the next year.

W.A.C., on 17 August 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Great video, though I must ask, what are your thoughts on the time limit for the levels in S3&K and the lack of control over the ability to turn super? S3&K is one of my favorite games of all time, but I hate those two aspects to the games. Sometimes I want to turn super and sometimes I don't. And I'm the type of person who loves to explore the hell out of levels, so I find the time limit a real disincentive for those who want to explore and not much of a threat to those who want to speed through the levels. If those two aspects of the game weren't there, S3&K would probably be my absolute favorite game of all time.

Edit-

Oh, how could I forget to bring up the art direction inconsistencies with the Tails sprites? I hate how the art for Tails is so inconsistent in this game because Sonic Team took the lazy route by modifying a bunch of Sonic 2 sprites.

The Tails sprites never really bugged me. I'm not all that visual of a person. Of course I could tell that they were VERY similar to Sonic 2, but to be honest I slightly preferred the character sprites in that game, anyway.

As mentioned, you did have at least MORE control over turning Super. And the lack thereof is what inspired Tiddles to start work on Sonic 3 Complete, so I guess it was ultimately a good thing! As for the time limit, yeah, that's probably one of those things that I don't even normally think about, I'm so used to it. But I definitely remember having to deal with Time Overs in, say, Carnival Night act 2. Much like lives are today, it was probably becoming an anachronism, especially considering how huge the acts are.

[nesboy43]

Great video, but a few major things were missing. How could you not mention the soundtrack at all? It's probably the best game soundtrack ever. Also the bosses and enemies themselves aren't discussed. Controls and physics that are expertly done are another very important part.

Other than that though you explain what makes the game so amazing. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is my favorite game as well. What is the advantage to Sonic 3 complete? I have an everdrive but have never played it.

[MastaSys]

nesboy43, on 17 August 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Other than that though you explain what makes the game so amazing. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is my favorite game as well. What is the advantage to Sonic 3 complete? I have an everdrive but have never played it.

Customization and (conservative) extra content, mainly. All of the little differences between the 3 versions of the game (S3, S&K and S3&K) even from other platforms (Saturn, PC, etc...) and pre-release materials or even stuff from other Sonic games are available to select almost individually by an in game menu or by IPS patchs.

Examples of such content are, music themes, level layouts, gameplay settings, etc...

Be sure to download the last version before you play btw.

[W.A.C.]

Dark Sonic, on 17 August 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Compared to Sonic 2, you have much more control over turning super. At least it required a double jump, and if you have a shield active it doesn't turn on.

It's not too bad with Sonic, but damn is it annoying with Tails and Knuckles.

Dark Sonic, on 17 August 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

And I love how, not only did Sonic team not whip up new Tails sprites (well, they made a few new ones to replace the old ones), but whenever a fan game exists it's extremely rare to see a new sprite set for Tails.

I guess a lot of Sonic fans are either content with Tails' inconsistent art direction or they're lazy. Maybe a bit of both.

Josh, on 17 August 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

The Tails sprites never really bugged me. I'm not all that visual of a person. Of course I could tell that they were VERY similar to Sonic 2, but to be honest I slightly preferred the character sprites in that game, anyway.

Art inconsistencies in games tend to bug the fuck out of me, but I'm a very visual person who is extremely OCD. I made a mockup of what Tails might've looked like if Sonic 3 had a more consistent art direction.



There are still some art inconsistencies with my mockup (like one of his fucking gloves), but I think I did a decent job. Also worth mentioning I love the art direction to S3&K except for the art inconsistencies with Tails, so that aspect of the graphics just sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

Josh, on 17 August 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

As mentioned, you did have at least MORE control over turning Super. And the lack thereof is what inspired Tiddles to start work on Sonic 3 Complete, so I guess it was ultimately a good thing!

That was easily the best change Sonic 3 Complete did to the game. I don't understand why Sonic Team didn't try to do something like that with the original game. It would've been a really nice addition, especially with Tails considering how his flickies can make one of the bosses in Death Egg Act 2 much harder than it needed to be.

Josh, on 17 August 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

As for the time limit, yeah, that's probably one of those things that I don't even normally think about, I'm so used to it. But I definitely remember having to deal with Time Overs in, say, Carnival Night act 2. Much like lives are today, it was probably becoming an anachronism, especially considering how huge the acts are.

The time limit made more sense in a game like Sonic 1 since the levels were much smaller and there was far less emphasis on exploration, but not so much in S3&K. Definitely an aspect of the game's design I do not like at all. At least the original version of Sonic CD would reset the clock to five minutes remaining when you did time travel past the five minutes mark.