[Master Emerald]

ICEknight, on 06 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Doesn't the emulator show a wrong aspect ratio when using the frame, though?

It uses the 1:1 dot-by-dot output, which is the best-looking option considering scaling a 160x144 image in a 400x240 screen looks pretty bad since it's less than 2x.
Also Sonic games don't have a very defined aspect ratio considering when you use the aspect ratio the MS uses all the squares in green hill get wider due to the tiles being 8x8 blocks etc.

For comparison.

This post has been edited by Master Emerald: 21 July 2014 - 09:13 AM

[ICEknight]

Master Emerald, on 21 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

ICEknight, on 06 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Doesn't the emulator show a wrong aspect ratio when using the frame, though?

[...]
Sonic games don't have a very defined aspect ratio considering when you use the aspect ratio the MS uses all the squares in green hill get wider due to the tiles being 8x8 blocks etc.

Gotta disagree here... Take a look at these circle shapes:



The graphics were just made for that aspect ratio, it's like arguing that old 4:3 games look okay in stretched widescreen mode.

Quote

It uses the 1:1 dot-by-dot output, which is the best-looking option considering scaling a 160x144 image in a 400x240 screen looks pretty bad since it's less than 2x.

Well, these screenshots have the same size they would on the 3DS and they don't look too bad.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 21 July 2014 - 10:38 AM

[GT Koopa]

HP Zoner, on 21 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I'm more surprised they didn't just make the Master System level underwater from top to bottom, but perhaps they planned to make the water visible like in the Game Gear version at first. I don't think it was intended to rise, though: it was this that made the shortcut near the end of the level impossible to take in the Game Gear version, due to Sonic's hindered movement (I'm talking specifically about the intangible wall before the tube that leads to the Emerald, which allows you to bypass the long vertical ascent with all the lobsters and spears).

Speaking of Aqua Lake oddities, the boss hilariously hits himself the first time he tries to attack you, provided you just stand there and watch. This was fixed for the Game Gear version.

But everything you said there is wrong.



You can use the shortcut because I just tested it myself on a game gear rom. Also, the seal boss attacks himself the first time is not only in the game gear version, but also is a hint to first time players on how to defeat him. In short it was planned, not a "glitch."

[HP Zoner]

Hah! I don't think I ever did that in the Game Gear version before. I guess I just jumped too clumsily.

My point still stands, though: the Master System version definitely has a water surface programmed. I think it would be interesting to see what happens if the water from the Game Gear version was hacked into the Master System. My theory is that a technical difficulty of some sort is what prevented them from doing things properly, but that's just me guessing. Why else would it have turned out that way, though? I've always thought this was an interesting thing and I'd love to hear more opinions on it!

As for the seal, I'll take your word for it. I admit I haven't played the Game Gear version more than perhaps a couple of times, so I guess I just didn't stand there long enough to test it and assumed (for some reason) that they changed that.

I also only recently found out you can get 300 000 points for finishing a level really fast. 18 seconds got me that time bonus.

[ICEknight]

HP Zoner, on 24 July 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

My point still stands, though: the Master System version definitely has a water surface programmed. I think it would be interesting to see what happens if the water from the Game Gear version was hacked into the Master System. My theory is that a technical difficulty of some sort is what prevented them from doing things properly, but that's just me guessing. Why else would it have turned out that way, though? I've always thought this was an interesting thing and I'd love to hear more opinions on it!

The water in Sonic Chaos shows a lot of garbage on screen near the surface, at least on NTSC systems (can't remember how PAL systems displayed it, right now), so I'm thinking they might have been scared of being criticized for having such a technical flaw in their top 1992 SMS game or something.

Please note that I'm talking about real hardware, I don't think that stuff shows up in any current emulator.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 24 July 2014 - 06:06 PM

[nineko]

HP Zoner, on 24 July 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

I also only recently found out you can get 300 000 points for finishing a level really fast. 18 seconds got me that time bonus.

Yeah, and 300000 seems to be the maximum, as a weird value as it is, since not even the TAS got more points, not even with 13 seconds. It seems to be 300000 up to 20 seconds, though.

[Neko Kit Su]

I now just want to sit down and play the 8-Bit games. I've dabbled with them a few times before, but never really gave them an honest playthrough.

They seemed kind of fun when I did dabble, though.

I do find the mind trickery for the speed shoes hilarious, though. I mean, they put a lot of thought into tricking with a lot of people, then?

[Master Emerald]

ICEknight, on 21 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

The graphics were just made for that aspect ratio, it's like arguing that old 4:3 games look okay in stretched widescreen mode.

No it's not. As I said, the presence of the 8x8 blocks makes some of the art perfect for 1:1 mode as seen here:

Quote

Well, these screenshots have the same size they would on the 3DS and they don't look too bad.

You have to remember the 3DS has bigger pixels than your monitor so the bilinear filter/nonsquare pixels are more aparent;

It's a matter of preference, not right or wrong. If you want squares to look right, circles will look stretched, If you want circles to look right, squares will look stretched. The 'correct aspect ratio' should be the one on real hardware of course, but were talking about an emulator running on another system with different resolution from a TV an no blurring so the dither doesn't appear as a midtone anyway. It won't be the real experience unless you have an SMS lying around :P

This post has been edited by Master Emerald: 23 August 2014 - 05:07 AM

[ICEknight]

Master Emerald, on 22 August 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

ICEknight, on 21 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Gotta disagree here... Take a look at these circle shapes:



The graphics were just made for that aspect ratio, it's like arguing that old 4:3 games look okay in stretched widescreen mode.

No it's not. As I said, the presence of the 8x8 blocks makes some of the art perfect for 1:1 mode as seen here:

Only the art that they didn't bother with due to sheer lazyness but, as I've already shown, they actively tried to make the graphics look right for the SMS aspect ratio, which is the way these games were supposed to be displayed at all times.

Even the most repeated sprite in the Sonic games follows these rules:


This is why I'd rather have the correct aspect ratio in their "original size" mode, just like Nintendo did with their NES games.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 25 August 2014 - 12:03 PM