[Cooljerk]

It's probably the most different main-line Sonic game, feeling very different to just about every other game in the series. It looks and feels half done, and there are weird bits everywhere.

Why does Tails have a full sprite set when he's only seen in like 1 screen? Why isn't Green Hills Zone the first stage? Why does it play Toot Toot Sonic Warrior as the music? What the heck is that powerup in Crystal Egg Zone that grants you a continue supposed to be? Why are there no in-stage markers? Why did they remove the speed shoes? Is the Master System version an earlier work compared to the game gear version? Why do the first two bosses have huge portions of their sprites completely hidden?

Seems to me that work on Sonic 2 8-bit began where both Sonic 2 16-bit and Sonic CD all were the same game, as you can see a few strings that tie them together, especially Sonic CD and Sonic 2 8-bit. All 3 games feature a robotic sonic, although all 3 are different, so I'm guessing the concept of a robotic doppleganger was probably one of the earliest ideas thrown around. Toot toot sonic warrior, to me, hints that the song was composed very early in Sonic 2's development -- but then why isn't it in Sonic 2 16-bit? Both Sonic 2 8-bit and Sonic CD revolve around a story about kidnapping, but Tails sprite sheet almost suggests he was a playable character.

Does anybody know the level slot designations off hand? Are the levels played out of order? Starting with Underground Zone never made sense to me - green hills zone is obviously the first stage. It's the easiest stage in the game, basically nothing but fields of rings and the occasional enemy, and it looks a lot like Emerald Hill Zone.

Little bits and pieces of the Master System version make it seem incomplete to me. Like in Aqua Lake Zone act 2 - in the GG version, it begins with you above water, and then the water level rises quick. This actually still happens in the master system version, but the palette is always that of being under water, so you don't notice. the only things that tip you off that you're above water is that you can't drown in the opening part of the act, and you move uninhibited. That the zone is the only placement of the speed shoes also makes me think it wasn't quite complete.

The monitors in Crystal Egg Zone are the weirdest part of the game to me. What the hell is it supposed to be? With layers off, it's a monitor that looks like Sonic running at full speed. It's never seen in any other game. What was its original purpose? Why did they use that in Crystal Egg Zone?

Also, what's the deal with the yellow birds that come out of the tree if you run into the left side of the 1-up at the upper-left portion of Sky High Zone act 1? They look so out of place. Why does that occur? Is it a glitch?

The lost level - did it become green hills zone? They look similar, except the lost level is white. was it an emerald hill zone->hill top zone thing? Speaking of which, why isn't there a single level in the game that's from Sonic 2 16-bit? Other than Green Hills Zone, which could be Emerald Hill Zone, or maybe Gimmick Mt. Zone, which could possibly pass for Mystic Cave Zone, none of the zones look remotely similar to any of the zones in the 16-bit version.

Why are their no special stages? This is the only main-line sonic game without special stages until you get to the 3D games. Just what the hell in general with this game? It's so bizarre.

ALSO, on the subject - what's up with those monitors in the 8-bit version of Sonic Spinball that have the japanese characters for "look" written on them? If you break them, some weird text scrolls across the screen. They almost seem like debug monitors, but they're found out in the open, like you're meant to find them.

EDIT: Meant this for the Sonic section. mind moving it for me, mods?

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 11 June 2014 - 07:44 PM

[Cooljerk]

Just looked at the retro wiki and noticed there is no mention of the birds in Sky High zone act 1. You guys know what I'm talking about, right?

[Jan Abaza]

About those music oddities - 16 bit Sonic 2 music was composed by Dreams Come True, while the GG/SMS version different composers, some the same same as PAL Sonic CD (Ogata & Hayata). Basically the sound teams were completely different and at the time I don't think anyone figured Green Hills music track would eventually be famous and become Sonic CD's main theme.

For oddball Green Hills placement, it might be due to that nasty trial-and-error act 3. Taking that part into account it's actually not an easy stage - it becomes all about collecting (frequent) 1ups in the first two acts order to even reach the boss in 3 via trial-and-error. Besides, if it were the "logical" way around, you'd have two green levels at the beginning and two consequential underground levels later on - might make more common sense setting-wise, except the game would have looked much more repetitive (since Green Hills reuses foreground tiles from Sky High and Gimmick Mt reuses background tiles from Underground).

Sky High 1 ducks are a real mystery! My guess is that someone had designed them as trapped animals for the level (the boss is a giant duck, after all), but they just didn't look good enough, so they were used for testing purposes. It's weird how far back this mystery goes, I was like in 6th grade when I first saw that at my schoolmate's; even back then nobody knew what it was all about, though the consensus was it's simply there to spice up the otherwise very short and uneventful level.

The game has even more mysteries - Sonic has a top running speed which can be broken by rolling full-speed into a loop; after passing it, he will be running above his speed cap and will destroy any badnik he runs into. He also has a secret double bounce thing - bounce 8? times in a row (keep holding the jump button, best tried on a set of breakable floor blocks) and his next bounce will be in mid-air. Speaking of air moves, the absence of spin-jump direction lock apparently results in springs tossing you MUCH higher and further if you spin before leaping onto them. (Try it in Green Hills 3. The stage actually has two possible routes in which you hold right, the second one is quicker but more complex at the second part of the level ... at which you ought to hold back just a little or miss the final set of springs.)

I'm beginning to think the game's title cards were outsourced to people working on 16 bit Sonic 2 at a very early stage, back at a point where Tails was still planned to be playable; they use Sonic 1 sprites for Sonic and the Underground even uses foreground material from that desert zone pic. The game might be a development branch-off scenario using concept and graphics designated for a really early 16 bit Sonic 2...which would explain why there are no revis(it)ed 16 bit Sonic 2 levels and how the title screen looks suspiciously like the 16 bit prototype one...this might have made more sense if if weren't for the fact that early version Aqua Lake featured a blue sky, while the title card makes it the same color as the final version. I dunno. I'm reluctant to discuss this as there is no way of proving it and little point in doing so.

Back to secrets, there are higher risk shortcuts to defeating certain bosses beyond the "hit them as soon as they're open" strategy. For example, the Aqua Lake seal - after you hit him and he recovers, he will slowly head toward you, catch you on his nose after you jump or leap and strike you with his tail when he's near. At this point, don't jump, but rather back away, pick up your speed and roll into him, if you're heading fast enough he should leap over you and immediately start inflating his nose, skipping the useless bouncing part (if you mistime, though, his tail will most likely kill you). Gimmick Mt boss can be stopped in his tracks by rolling to his nose, though it still produces falling stones, so it's kinda pointless. As for the dreaded 1st boss, it might not be common knowledge that he is perfectly harmless to touch as long as you're rolling, which means you can keep bouncing off him to avoid the leaping balls, with some luck and careful timing.

This certanly is a weird game, and yeah, there is a lot of stuff you neve even get to see (like the continue monitor or the antlion and metal duck bodies). There are also a lot genuine secrets in it (like the duck easter egg or level-skipping shortcuts all over Aqua Lake 2 or emerald hunting in Gimmick Mountain). "Unfair" deaths aside, I love this game even on the Game Gear (...really, how is trial end error unfair when you get practically unlimited lives to make up for it? Outside 3rd acts there are only two points in the entire game where a single mistake will force you to restart.) I don't miss the mid-stage markers, the levels are short enough as they are. But yeah, where did the special stages go?

[Techokami]

Most of the oddness might come from the fact that this was Aspect's first time making a Sonic game (the 8-bit Sonic 1 was handled by Ancient), so they were still figuring out what could be done. Their later games (Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble) feel a lot more polished, because they had the experience.

[GeneHF]

Most of the complaints levied at Sonic 2 8-bit mostly stem from the Game Gear and its cropped screen. Playing it on a Master System is markedly easier. I think the biggest ones are you can see the pits in Green Hills 3, and the Underground Zone boss has a set ball bounce height and larger viewing area, whereas the Game Gear boss is much more zoomed in and has a randomized bounce pattern.

Point is, if you're shrouded by some shameful curse that Sonic 2 GG kicked your ass, go conquer it on the Master System. That's the main version anyway.

[Black Squirrel]

I think for the longest of times Green Hills was the first stage (or at least, the first stage to be started), as it's by far the most common zone to turn up in prototype screenshots. Why the level order was altered is anyone's guess... although maybe it was to help differentiate the game from the 8-bit version of Sonic 1?

It's one of those games where it's very difficult to speculate what they were thinking. There are levels which are horrendously short (Sky High 1) and those which are painfully long (Aqua Lake 2).

[Cooljerk]

GeneHF, on 12 June 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Most of the complaints levied at Sonic 2 8-bit mostly stem from the Game Gear and its cropped screen. Playing it on a Master System is markedly easier. I think the biggest ones are you can see the pits in Green Hills 3, and the Underground Zone boss has a set ball bounce height and larger viewing area, whereas the Game Gear boss is much more zoomed in and has a randomized bounce pattern.

Point is, if you're shrouded by some shameful curse that Sonic 2 GG kicked your ass, go conquer it on the Master System. That's the main version anyway.

I like the sms version a lot, but I beat the gg version legitimately, with all the emeralds, several times when I was younger. Wonder if I can still do it.

[Jan Abaza]

I just checked, my fingers remember this game well. Took me 22 minutes with a single death.

I'm not saying this to brag, it took me a year and a half to beat the game for the first time when I was younger (stupid third acts). Memorizing those Scrambled Egg tube routes was a blast, though. Game Gear with its smaller screen size produces exploits where it's possible to respawn monitors if you manage to leave the screen before the explosion disappears. It can be done in Sky High act 2 to get unlimited lives by just going back and forth (running, rolling, collecting the 1up, bouncing off at nearby 45° spring and returning). Running through Green Hills, smashing monitors? Do head back after clearing some land, chances are those 1ups will be there again. I like to think the designers knew what they were doing, littering the game with so many extra lives like that. You die in the Game Gear version before winning. A lot. But damn, the music's cool. Speaking of which, the autoplay demo features Green Hills and - no music. So you get to see all those colorful rolling hills and you're like, whoa, I wanna play this level! And hear its tune! And then, 6 months later, you're like whoa I finally reached this level! The music is awesome! Rolling hills! Tunnels! Velocity! It's almost like 16 bit Sonic 1! I am running past everything, oh shit it's act 3 already? Welp, I die.

...wait, there are no waterfalls in these green hills? Bummer. =(

Also the box and manual cover promises a bridge across water it never delivers, so be forewarned: this is game does not feature a bridge across water. I find this undelivered promise slighly displeasing.

I guess the GG version is hard mode then? Relax, you can still learn the game on your piddly 'Master' Systems since the level layouts are almost exactly the same. Then you can test your muscle memory - just have faith in upcoming level geometry staying consistent with what you expect to be there. :P And the action seems somewhat quicker, so be prepared for that.

(Then after beating this, imagine getting Sonic Chaos and beating it in a single afternoon. Damn that game felt like a waste of gaming after the purgatory of Sonic 2.)

[Overlord]

ehhhh. You say that, but as someone whose favourite Game Gear Sonic is Sonic Chaos, I thought 2 was a waste of money (£12 is a lot when your age is in single digits). Didn't help how notoriously hard Underground Zone is on Game Gear - to this day I've not beaten that version's boss (have on Master System).

[Cooljerk]

Every christmas eve, my family would go to my grandmother's place and stay till midnight, and at midnight, we'd all get to open one present. I got Sonic Chaos this way. We left my Grandma's house at 12:30, and my parents place was about 30 minutes away. I beat Sonic Chaos that night on the ride home, the same night I got the game.

Very disappointed with that game, even if I can appreciate it now. Sonic 1 was always my favorite 8-bit Sonic game, with Sonic Triple Trouble coming in a close 2nd.

EDIT: Totally made up for my disappointment like 6 hours later when I walked into the living room and found a Sega CD and Sonic CD under the tree.

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 13 June 2014 - 12:08 AM

[E-122-Psi]

I definitely agree that Chaos wasn't nearly as much of an investing platformer as 2, shame because it had the potential to trounce it (better graphics, slightly better engine, fully playable Tails, special stages). Sonic 2 was cheap in difficulty at times, but at least the levels were somewhat deep and plausible in level and structure. Green Hills and Crystal Egg were fun, memorable experiences, even considering how hard they were. You had to kinda slow down and search for the fun unique bits of Chaos, otherwise it was over in a flash (it says something when I'm actually searching for water in an aquatic zone just to relieve the monotonous ease of it).

Chaos is one of the games I'd like to see a level hack for, simply because it could potentially utilize the decency of everything else of the game with good level structure and make a pretty fun game.

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 13 June 2014 - 12:33 AM

[Bobinator]

Truthfully, isn't Triple Trouble exactly what you're asking for? People never give enough credit to that game, for whatever reason. Given all the new stuff it addded, I'd basically call say it's like the best game on the system, to be honest.

[Cooljerk]

I'd say the best game on the system is either Land of Illusion, Castle of Illusion, Tails Adventure, Gunstar Heroes or Dynamite Headdy. GG Shinobi 2, Shining Force: Sword of Hajya, Lucky Dime Caper, Sylvan's Tale, Ristar, GG Aleste 2, and Coca-Cola Kid are also really good games, although whether I'd place them above Sonic Triple Trouble kinda depends on my mood.

Best thing about the above list of games? Aside from the mickey and donald duck games, those are all GG exclusives.

EDIT: Triple Trouble is also much better when played on a Master System. Castle of Illusion gets major bonus points for outputting a full-resolution image and letting the GG scale it down rather than cropping to the GG resolution. More games should have done that.

Also, this isn't bringing into the equation SMS games, which pushes Triple Trouble even further down the list, once I get to start counting games like Wonderboy III or Phantasy Star.

EDIT AGAIN: Durr, Dynamite Headdy had an SMS port too. dumb mistake considering I own both.

This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 13 June 2014 - 02:04 PM

[Machenstein]

The Master System version of Triple Trouble is actually a hack done by a member here. I think his name was Glitch.

http://info.sonicret...ple_Trouble_SMS

I wonder if work on it will continue.

[Cooljerk]

Machenstein, on 13 June 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

The Master System version of Triple Trouble is actually a hack done by a member here. I think his name was Glitch.

http://info.sonicret...ple_Trouble_SMS

I wonder if work on it will continue.

Yeah, I'm aware, but it's still much better than the GG version.