[Overlord]

Do I really have to step in here? Everyone stop being dicks to each other.

[Blueblur93]

Thanks winterhell, I'm glad it's not just me thinking Clownacy is being rude.

But this to you now, Clownacy. This is my 1st ever hack, OK? I don't know about you, but I've been playing other peoples hacks for a good few years now, and it got me interested, seen as I am a programmer for ObjC and C++, but mainly ObjC, depsite that assembly code and C language are nothing alike. So I decided to look into it, taking small steps, rather than throwing myself into the deep end. Then over time this hack was built. Yes, I have used code what people have posted, big whoop, but isn't that what all newbies do when learning a completely new language, however I have credited them, rather than claiming it as mine, which I can state it's not mine. Then over time, more artwork was added, thinking that it's building on nicely. Then when it comes to the latest release, of course because its my 1st hack, but I was really proud of it, as would any one else would be. I accomplished something I set out do, why wouldn't I be proud and ecstatic of my hack? Everyone's biased about their own game, I am, and I also know there are greater hacks out there like "Sonic Megamix" for instance, but because it's my own hack, that particular hack where I used my own time to create it thinking it was decent, of course I'm going to think it's better than everyone else's, it's called being human.

By the way, the only reason I MAY have misunderstood what you put in your 1st post, is only because of the way you wrote it and the atmosphere of it. It just felt as if you had nothing better to do than writing bad things about it. I can't see one single positive thing you wrote about it, not even a very minor positive. I'm not just saying that because you found too many negative aspects and I'm whining as you called, I'm saying it because EVERY hack, even the worst hack ever, has at least one good aspect of the game, even if it's something that's done in another hack repeatedly over and over again, it's is a positive aspect, it's an accomplishment.

Also lastly, I don't know why, but from the sound of your 2nd post, it actually sounds like you wanted this to happen, well CONGRATULATIONS! YOU MADE IT HAPPEN!
GIVE YOURSELF A ROUND OF A-FRICKIN-PPLAUSE!

Here's a hint for you, coming from a person who does reviews and criticism (check vizzed.com for my reviews, same username, and read 'em, I know they're not the best reviews out there, but its the manner of the reviews I want you to notice): When criticising people, you're supposed to make them feel that they want to do more to the hack, not completely strip them of their confidence to do more.

EDIT: Sorry Overlord I didn't see you're post, otherwise wouldn't have posted this.

This post has been edited by Blueblur93: 15 May 2014 - 12:58 PM

[Knucklez]

Well, that's some immature shit right there. The guy does his best to make a hack and you want to start nitpicking and criticizing as if he was Sonic Team or something.

Trust me I have plenty of creative ideas for hacks and would love to make a hack more than anything, but I have ZERO knowledge of how to even hack.

So don't criticize this guy when he's just trying to learn and do something you yourself haven't got a clue on how to do. Everyone has their own style and their own method of doing things. Unless he was a professional making amateur decisions or mistakes, you need to shut your mouth Clownacy.

People on here need to respect the effort being put forth when obviously no one else on here has even bothered to release any hacks since the last contest.

[Blueblur93]

Thank you Knucklez, I truly do appreciate with what you wrote.

[Clownacy]

Blueblur93, on 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

By the way, the only reason I MAY have misunderstood what you put in your 1st post, is only because of the way you wrote it and the atmosphere of it. It just felt as if you had nothing better to do than writing bad things about it

Oh, this 'rudeness' point again? Haven't you heard of satire? Thicker skin helps.

In my second post, though, you genuinely got me mad. It was... what's the word? Well, you used the terrible argument of 'if you don't like it, don't play it', and that was your final word. That did less than a good job of setting the tone for the response. Your perception failed, too: You said you were speaking with the attitude I did, but you were just being snarky, making the most absurd of arguments.

Blueblur93, on 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

even the worst hack ever, has at least one good aspect of the game, even if it's something that's done in another hack repeatedly over and over again, it's is a positive aspect, it's an accomplishment.

Eash, not to pick a hole in everything you say, but what kind of philosophy is that? If I had a hack and the only feature was new palettes, which were awful, how does it contain even a single positive thing? The best thing to a positive I can think of is time and/or effort. There can certainly exist hacks with no positives. I'm not saying this is one of them, more on that later in the post.

Blueblur93, on 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

But this to you now, Clownacy. This is my 1st ever hack, OK? I don't know about you, but I've been playing other peoples hacks for a good few years now, and it got me interested, seen as I am a programmer for ObjC and C++, but mainly ObjC, depsite that assembly code and C language are nothing alike. So I decided to look into it, taking small steps, rather than throwing myself into the deep end. Then over time this hack was built. Then when it comes to the latest release, of course because its my 1st hack, but I was really proud of it, as would any one else would be. I accomplished something I set out do, why wouldn't I be proud and ecstatic of my hack? Everyone's biased about their own game, I am, and I also know there are greater hacks out there like "Sonic Megamix" for instance, but because it's my own hack, that particular hack where I used my own time to create it thinking it was decent, of course I'm going to think it's better than everyone else's, it's called being human.

"Being human"? I can certainly tell you in all the time I've been around, I have never considered my hack to be above all. What kind of god-awful mindset is that? That would discourage learning, progress. What's there to do when you're at the top? I think I missed your point though, you say that but bring up Megamix as a better hack. ?

Blueblur93, on 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Also lastly, I don't know why, but from the sound of your 2nd post, it actually sounds like you wanted this to happen, well CONGRATULATIONS! YOU MADE IT HAPPEN!
GIVE YOURSELF A ROUND OF A-FRICKIN-PPLAUSE!

That section above that covers this applys here. Damn, that part was messy. After the first post, I was ready to call it quits with the angry-act, I wasn't playing the ROM anymore. And your response... As I'd repeated in previous posts, my original post had valid points even if watered down, but I spent my entire response correcting yours. We were both hardly in any state to cool off. You were mimicking me and your argument just annoyed me into responding angrily.

Blueblur93, on 14 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yes, I have used code what people have posted, big whoop, but isn't that what all newbies do when learning a completely new language, however I have credited them, rather than claiming it as mine, which I can state it's not mine.

I wasn't claiming it was stolen. About Selbi's code, I can understand bells and whistles that your average guide adds to your hack, but features that are relevant to the very identity of your hack, as a follow up to Generations, such as Sonic's Homing Attack, which he inherited during Generations, the fact that it wasn't something you made, and physically had to ask someone to give it to you, only for you to give no use besides the occasional monitor chains, comes off as that posterboy example of why such code isn't publicly available. As someone else said, it felt slapped on. Yeah, it's relevant to the story, but what else is it relevant to? What else is even relevant to the story? That after-effect certainly isn't!



I don't know if bringing it up again will do any good. You don't need to tell me how reviews and criticisms work. I didn't do anything wrong; I had everything the way I wanted it. I'm aware of DA's checklist style, I'm aware that I could have taken an entirely different approach. I didn't want to. I tried a hack that was rated 9.4 stars somewhere by someone, had a wiki page describing it as a "complete overhaul" and as containing advanced engine modifications, you kept on giving the idea that the hack was good. But when I played it, it... didn't match what I'd heard of it: It gave me hell. I expect a layout hack to not make me ragequit as much as you expect feedback to be in a positive tone. You see? Then a new version comes out, I'm curious of its improvements, I play it only to find what I would consider to be worse. I'm repeating myself, as this is the same point I've been making all this time, so if you already get my point and have been disagreeing with it all this time then this won't do much good. I wasn't out to get this hack because it was new, it's because, from my experience, it was absolutely insane. It pushed my boundaries of poor design in certain areas, so my post pushed my boundaries of what I was comfortable with posting here (the first dick-move being what turned the post from 'things wrong with the hack' to 'things wrong with you as a level designer'). You suggest that I cut down on the rudeness, and since the rudeness runs parallel to bad features of the hack, I suggest you cut down on those. That was the entire point of the satire approach. If you can't see through the 'rudeness', then that means I couldn't see through the hack's flaws. That's why I couldn't bring myself to praise anything: I didn't notice anything over the dreadful time I was having. I began as jotting down thoughts that ran through my head as I was playing the hack, thoughts that every other player of the hack would have. It may have been cruel, but anyone who encountered the Ember Gardens boss will react the same way I did. It's why it's the only part of the post that I didn't tone down to satirical, leaving it at pure critical, aside from the lack of a certain quotation. Who wouldn't want to skip it? If the hack is enough to make me go through all of this trouble, imagine what it does to other players. Had I enjoyed the game, I would've come here, sometime after clearing Pinball Pike, and cheerily praised the hack for making something good from 3.0; instead of coming here having ragequitted, voicing my extreme dislike toward it. Even had I thought of this as 'just bad', I wouldn't have been so heated either. It's because this hack is nothing like I've ever experienced before. In areas, I really felt like you were trying to be bad. Like those platforms above the spikes, like the Speed Shoes that trick you into a cheap death, like that would-be hidden area that's a bottomless pit. This even had an effect in the conclusion: the level layouts outside of their times of being evil were honestly alright, it didn't flow much in areas where you'd expect it to, but places such as Ember Garden act 2 were pretty solid, iffy objects aside, but when came the Pinball Pike boss, it didn't matter, it wasn't enough to negate the hell I'd been through. I cast aside how I liked Midnight Aurora's palette and whatever levels it was that kept me going this far, they were pushed to the back of my mind, I didn't want to play anymore. I wanted these flaws to be out in the open, it may have been overkill, but considering what you'd done up to that point, I thought it was just enough. I'd seen way too many dim folks who that post wouldn't have gotten through to. There's my side of the story, how about yours? What was your intention with some of these? Do you plan to change any?

Hey, Knucklez. What's this about stuff I can't do? Seems like a pointless blow. You haven't seen my levels, but I've seen his. In fact, I can identify the bad in this hack's levels.
Anyone can do better than 'selectively dropping platforms' or 'unseeable ledge that's required you reach to progress', it's common sense to not do that. So of course I pointed it out as if he knew better, because he did. Come on, I don't think so little of him!
Just because a hack's released during a drought doesn't immediately make it good, it should get by on it's merits, not the time of year. Anyway, I've already made my point. Good is good, but too much bad can drown it out.

[GerbilSoft]

Clownacy, on 15 May 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

I wasn't claiming it was stolen. About Selbi's code, I can understand bells and whistles that your average guide adds to your hack, but features that are relevant to the very identity of your hack, as a follow up to Generations, such as Sonic's Homing Attack, which he inherited during Generations, the fact that it wasn't something you made, and physically had to ask someone to give it to you, only for you to give no use besides the occasional monitor chains, comes off as that posterboy example of why such code isn't publicly available. As someone else said, it felt slapped on. Yeah, it's relevant to the story, but what else is it relevant to? What else is even relevant to the story? That after-effect certainly isn't!

Counterpoint: Attitudes like this is exactly why we end up with HACK DETECTION and Wii homebrew filled with DRM. "I made super secret code and it's so special that everyone else is FORBIDDEN from having it, even though it's based on an illegally reverse-engineered ROM that other people disassembled for me!"

This post has been edited by GerbilSoft: 15 May 2014 - 04:30 PM

[Super Egg]

Oh.....
MY.......
GODDDDDDDDD........................



This hack.

This hack. There is a smile on my face, and it ain't going away. I definitely know it's not because this hack is a godsend straight from the river of the Land of Tweakallah. No, this hack is just....it's just a prime slice from newguy attempt heaven.

Ok buddy, you're new to the pasture. Congrats. You're definitely not the worst beginner I've seen, but definitely this hack is bad. I'm sorry for being blunt, but it is...... At the same time however, it has potential.

Let's list the Pros and the Cons.

Pros
- The Ring art you have there is actually not half bad. Given a bit of tweaking, it'll look real nice.
- You were able to port the S3K, or flamewing, sound driver into this. Not necessarily difficult, but for a beginner, nice job.
- You started basic ASM hacking. The GHZ boss a prime example.
- The GHZ boss. It's not the greatest thing ever, but given time, I'm certain you could make that into something cool. Though, I'd suggest you change it up. The concept, though cool, has been done a few times.
- SYZ's bg is interesting, sort of. Given enough work, it'd be kickass.

Cons
- OH GOD THE PALETTE. MY EYES!!!!! MY EYES!!! Please don't make me explain this.
- Homing attack. More on that later.
- Layouts. Object, Ring, Level. ACK
- The rest of your other art edits. Shield art being a prime example.
- The afterimage. Not a big deal, but I just don't like it.
- Another small nitpick. You go off and extend the Sound Test, but don't add the feature to be able to jump $16 songs up? Come now man, don't be lazy =P
- And this hack didn't cook me a god damned steak. Where is my god damned steak?

Ok then, let's get to the meat of this post, Homing attacks and layouts.

First off, Gerbilsoft.

GerbilSoft, on 15 May 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Counterpoint: Attitudes like this is exactly why we end up with HACK DETECTION and Wii homebrew filled with DRM. "I made super secret code and it's so special that everyone else is FORBIDDEN from having it, even though it's based on an illegally reverse-engineered ROM that other people disassembled for me!"

I'm rather certain that isn't the issue. The issue is that the homing attack is lame and overused. If I had a bell curve, this is how it'll look explaining the history of the homing attack



Oh look at that. I have one.

Point One: Homing Attack

Jokes aside, the homing attack went outta style when it did because it was overused. The move became almost like the spindash in the number of hacks it was introduced. The difference however is that the spindash is practical, while the homing attack, or properly the "jump dash", is just a novelty. The concept of the move was the ease of targeting foes on a 3D plane. The need of it in 2D was if anything ridiculous. As Sonic, or any of his woodland creature friends, they can all maneuver properly and take down enemies by jumping on them. Hell, if you wanted a chain, you could create one, all you had to do is being able to rebound off of the next enemy at the right time.

Given that, this hack has no need for the homing/Dash Attack. The move only complicates movement and hinders actual progress. I believe that is the issue Clownacy was going on about. The homing attack is lame, overused, un-needed, and nothing more than a novelty. IF instead the level layouts were actual comprehensible half the time, the need for it to save your ass because of unfair spike/enemy/wall/whatever placement. On that, let's move on to the next point.

Point Two: Level Layouts

You know, I swear I have to explain how level flow and design work every time I have to discuss a hack with someone. Fuck that noise, Im'ma just gonna copy and paste this from a previous post from SSRG.

Spoiler

Question for ya. Why are you so in a hurry to release this hack and for people to play this? I don't mean to be blunt, but this hack is horrible. Many of the reasons are already stated, so repeating them would be just beating a dead horse. The main issue is that your hack is untested, unpolished, and most of, barely enjoyable.

Given that, let's discuss a few things, namely the keys of making a good hack. Let me list them down first, and then explain them.

1. Playability <-----------
|--------- These two categories are intertwined. I can't decide which is more important, so I've listed them as both number one in importance.
1. Logical Design <------------
2. Presentation
3. Replayability

1. Playability - The most important thing about anything, hack or not, is playability. What is playability? Playability is the ability to play, whatever is the subject in question, in this case: your hack, in a way that is enjoyable. Bottom line, your hack has to be playable. That is literally the only way I can explain it. If I can't figure out how to get to point A to point B, that is an issue, whether it is because of bad level design, or poor controls. In your case, poor controls aren't an issue, as this is a Sonic 1 hack, thus you don't have to worry about it, so it is obviously the latter, which leads to the next point.

1(a). Logical Design - In my personal opinion, this is the most important point, but some may argue, whatever. In order to understand logical design, there is two things you must learn,
logical level design, flow. There are differences between the two.

A. Logical Level Design- A fairly easy concept to understand. In any platform game, the objective is to go from Point A to Point B. Given that, your levels should reflect that. There should be paths that lead to the end. Along with it, the paths shouldn't become entirely impossible to backtrack, as explorations is key to finding goodies. If it becomes difficult for the player to go back, the incentive to explore is gone. There should always be more than one path to go between points. A level should never have only one path to the end, as it is not only short sighted, but bland. Mario levels technically have only way to get to the end, bearing in mind Shortcuts via tubes don't count. Though it works in Mario, as finding the pipe that possibly houses your alternate way to the end is a challenge on it's own, it doesn't work in Sonic. Sonic doesn't warp to different parts of the level unless it is part of some kind of gimmick, and usually only because it leads to another path TO the end, not just a path this is right outside the goal. Given that, Sonic games have multiple paths, as it encourages exploration, and teaches the player different ways to the end, and possibly better ways to perfect their game.

Another key point would be object/Ring placement. Springs should be used to lead to either an alternate path, or as a means to find goodies. Springs can be used to impede a player's progress, but shouldn't be used all the time in such a dishonest manner, as it can desensitize a player into not using them and ignoring them unless it is bluntly obvious. Another thing, springs need to be associated with something in the foreground. Having a random spring floating around in the air isn't good, as it shows you have no idea how to control your level. Instead of finding creative, or using cranial power, you left springs in the air. Why? If you put it in a tree, that'd be nice, as the player would have to figure out which tree. Moving and or stationary platforms are placed in decent spots. Nothing to go home and rave about, but it's not bad considering the level layout.

B. Flow - My favorite topic. As explained, the point of Logical design is to go from Point A to Point B. Now, in lots of new hacks, the creator understands that concept, but flow is a completely different animal. Remember that example I used about Mario? Yep, that is a horrible example of flow. Mario games flow like molasses. What does that mean? That means the level design is pretty piss easy, but flow, no. You the player have to search every pipe to find an alternate exit, or another place to gather more goodies such as coins, 1ups, ect. In the case of Sonic, multiple paths are around, so the need for a separate room is moot. Given that, the way flow works is simple. If the player has to actually stop and think about how to finish the level, then it isn't flowing. If the player has to stop because the level just makes you stop, it isn't good flow. A random wall where it wasn't indicated there would be one, a level where you have a path that leads to imminent death, ect; that's bad flow.

2. Presentation - Along with having comprehensive controls, and good design logic, then you should be able to come up with something with presentation. Presentation is as it sounds, how you've presented your hack. Is the hack polished? Is the aesthetics good? Does it look appealing at first glance, ect. That's why having good art and palettes are imperative, otherwise people will just ignore a potential gem as a headache.

3. Replayability - This is important, but not as much as the others. Your hack should make people want to come back to it. If your hack doesn't hold the appeal of the audience, your hack ain't a Mona Lisa. This should be your indicator of how well you made your hack. If people come back to it. Because downloading it means nothing. If people don't play past the first act, it doesn't matter. I told somebody their hack "was a piece of shit and I can't play past the first act because it was a mess." Author's response? "Just play past the first Act, it gets better after." No. If you can't capture the attention of the audience within the first 30 seconds, you've lost. Doesn't matter if it give you a $1.M later on, because people want to see something immediately.

All in All, good shot for a beginner. Hopefully this helps you in your hack production. As a side note, don't release something this early. Literally nothing good will be said about your hack at this point in time. All you're doing is hurting yourself and putting a time table onto something that needs patience and time, not production dates.

Ok then, you can skip all that if you'd like. I'd suggest you read it, as I explain level design thoroughly, but I won't blame you if you don't. It's quite lengthy.

GHZ1 - It's ok, but what in the sam hill is up with your platform "challenge" halfway through? It ain't challenging, it's dickish. Even though you provide an alternative path, it shouldn't be automatically mandatory.

Also, Lemme say this, in GHZ2, fuck that shit. Seriously man, what the actual hell? You make it mandatory to jump off at the end of the tunnel, otherwise you fall to the bottom path and have to die? What kind of level design is that? Seriously dude. It's nice you put a life down there, as to not be a complete dick, but that's a dick move either way, not to mention a waste of perfectly good layout space.

Big no no: spike pits and random spikes. Come on man. In what Sonic game did they have a shit ton of bottomless pits that didn't make sense, or spike pits that shouldn't be? Well besides MCZ, none that are memorable. You can't use shit like that as "challenge," that isn't challenge. Challenge is where you have to you use brainpower to get outta an area and the way out isn't quite obvious, but it can be solved. Being a dick is when you punish the player for not timing concisely to your demands, which is what you do with the homing attack. (see above)

Also, cut back on the springs? Remember how people get annoyed with being constantly bombarded by speed boosters? Well springs do the same thing. This isn't Kaiser Mario. And an autoplaying level is fun and all, but it gets tiresome quite quickly.

All in all, good shot, you just need to REALLY test out levels before you release them to the public. Like, play through every level 4 or 5 times and see if there is anything wrong. You'd be surprised how many times people revise already good layouts because they feel it could be done better.

Point Three: Your Attitude

You can sit here all day and have like one or two people call somebody a dick because he said something not "nice" to you. Cut that shit out right now. People aren't going to be nice and hold back because you just jumped onto the scene. When you release a product, you will have to taste the full force of criticism that is to come. Once your hack is out on display, people can say whatever about it, and you can't call them out on it, or disagree with their opinion, because, it's their opinion, and also because you let it out.

Next off, Clownacy did nothing "dickish", or "cruel", or whatever else you and the idiots on here are moaning about. It's called, say it with me CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. So please, quit your bitching, all of you.

Knucklez, on 15 May 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well, that's some immature shit right there. The guy does his best to make a hack and you want to start nitpicking and criticizing as if he was Sonic Team or something.

Trust me I have plenty of creative ideas for hacks and would love to make a hack more than anything, but I have ZERO knowledge of how to even hack.

So don't criticize this guy when he's just trying to learn and do something you yourself haven't got a clue on how to do. Everyone has their own style and their own method of doing things. Unless he was a professional making amateur decisions or mistakes, you need to shut your mouth Clownacy.

People on here need to respect the effort being put forth when obviously no one else on here has even bothered to release any hacks since the last contest.

Knucklez, what? Is criticizing not the point of posting? You can't hold people's hands. If something is bad, don't beat around the bush, tell it like it is. If it sucks, say it straight. "It sucks." After that though, you explain why and how it could be made better. Where is the issue with that? Why is it you people are so afraid to not be a bunch of pussies and say what it is? He is a beginner, so what? It's best to hurt his feelings now and set him straight, than to let him continuing to make mistakes and when it all comes to it at the end, his stuff is mediocre and nobody will like it. I swear, it's like you people live in this fantasy world where everything has to be perfect.

Kid, you have potential, but don't sit here and take things personally. Use what people say as motivation to get better, not a reason as to why you didn't succeed.

Also.....


TEAM CLOWNACY BITCHEZ

This post has been edited by Super Egg: 15 May 2014 - 07:57 PM

[MarkeyJester]

I... Kind of hit a little snag here:



The score kept increasing, giving me more lives in the process, and now it's stuck with my lives incrementing extremely fast in a loop.

Love the invincible stars design though, probably the best I've seen.

[Clownacy]

Whoa, I'd been using debug mode since Midnight Aurora act 2, so I never noticed that.

SuperEgg, I fucking love you.

After you lot's reaction, I thought I had committed some ungoldy sin, that I'd lost touch with what was the norm: My direction was influenced by what I'd seen when I first found the SSRG, which, between that and here, is the metropolis of noob hacks.

Sorry SuperEgg, but that ain't Flamewing's driver, it's the S3 driver from that SCHG guide. There're a lot of giveaways: Dead Sega sound, Z80 not being supported by ASM68K, and I doubt someone so new knows how to convert to AS or pre-assemble the code, some projectile-firing badniks make that noise that they do in S3, but they're mistimed due to an error in the guide, you could probably hear the S3-specific DACs in some of the songs.

This post has been edited by Clownacy: 16 May 2014 - 05:28 AM

[Adamis]

I've tried the first Zone. There were some bugs. On Act 1, I got stuck in the first breakable wall and the game just pushed me to the end !
On Act 2, I didn't understand what was going on, I went on a loop a few times before finding the end of the Act purely by chance. And why is there a bottomless pit right next to a place full of bonuses ?
On Act 3, I died when I reached the top of the level... then I killed the boss and accidently touched the giant ring before opening the capsule, so I was stuck and I turned the game off.

[Super Egg]

Clownacy, on 16 May 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Whoa, I'd been using debug mode since Midnight Aurora act 2, so I never noticed that.

SuperEgg, I fucking love you.

Who doesn't? Especially after that helpful graph I made? That should've put everything into perspective =P

Quote

After you lot's reaction, I thought I had committed some ungoldy sin, that I'd lost touch with what was the norm: My direction was influenced by what I'd seen when I first found the SSRG, which, between that and here, is the metropolis of noob hacks.

If SSRG is the Metropolis of newb hacks, I must be the Slicers. Cause I'll I do is slice bitches down to size on there =P

Quote

Sorry SuperEgg, but that ain't Flamewing's driver, it's the S3 driver from that SCHG guide. There're a lot of giveaways: Dead Sega sound, Z80 not being supported by ASM68K, and I doubt someone so new knows how to convert to AS or pre-assemble the code, some projectile-firing badniks make that noise that they do in S3, but they're mistimed due to an error in the guide, you could probably hear the S3-specific DACs in some of the songs.

Yeah, after playing it again, not being super tired from a workout, I realized this as such. Kinda a let down tbh, but oh well. What can you do?

[Blueblur93]

Clownacy, I think I just weren't used to that kind of criticism, so I apologize my replies. Like you said, I just needed that kick up the arse.
Now that I've properly read both Super Egg's and your view of my hack, I think I agree with you now. NOT that it's a terrible hack though...
And also from that helpful graph about homing attack, I think I'll remove that ability, and probably go back to the basics. Spin-dash, run and jump.

But by the way, to be truthful, I did originally get the S3K sound driver code from SCHG, because for some reason the Sonic Retro's S3K Driver weren't working ...
Then I tried the Sonic Retro's version again, and it worked, but maybe I missed out something and some SCHG's code is in there somewhere, so I'll have another look at it.

Now there is one thing I ask from either of you two, or both of you (because then I can have two views), can you please look at all acts for the level layout, and tell me which layouts are good and bad. Now that doesn't include, walk-able lava, and other stuff like that. It's solely just the level layout I want to know, and for that (I know it isn't much) but I'll add you to the credits for testers, because I can clearly see that level layout is a big issue. I already know about the annoying loop and secret room death trap at the beginning of Midnight Aurora act 2. So yeah, could you test the rest of the levels, even if (it will most likely be used) the level select and debug mode.

As said before, the items will be remastered/ tweaked, as you can probably tell I'm not entirely an artist, but I've tried to draw in what I had in mind.

Also MarkeyJester, I know how that has happened, because I have changed the speed of the Time Bonus countdown, I should just put the speed as it was originally.

[Clownacy]

I still say I apologise for that second post. That was a mess, too many mixed signals. As before, I can understand that you don't see your hack as negatively as I do, you can probably see the good in there where I can't.

I see a learning opportunity... Instead of removing the Homing Attack, why not give the player an option? Now, I'm not talking about anything that'd fly way over your head, like porting the S2 Options menu and modifying it to have a 'Homing Attack' setting, I'm talking about mapping the HA to only one of the A/B/C buttons, leaving the others free for standard stuff. I'm not entirely against the HA, I just don't like losing the Badnik-Bounce to it. By having the two mapped to different buttons, you have a simple, yet effective, solution for both pro- and anti-HA players. You use Selbi's code, right? I helped someone do a similar thing in the past. Go to the label Sonic_JumpDash and near it you should find a line like this:

($FFFFF603).w,d0

In the line beneath it is a number, $50 (I think), change it to $20. That $FFFFF603 is a button input log of some sort, that $50 number is an ID of a button press in said log, a combination of A, B, and C's. $20 is just C's. Doing this causes the HA/Jump Dash to be triggered only by C.

As I said to SuperEgg, there're a whole bunch of ways the S3K driver can die on you. Namely, the sound driver is in a different language to the rest of the game. When you build the game, the 'language' becomes machine code. Because the driver is in an alien language, it can't be made into machine code by the Assembler. The S2 and S3K disassemblies have a different Assembler, allowing both languages to be built. The SCHG version of the driver has already been turned into machine code, and even then, I don't fully trust that as a solution, as, personally, I think that's why the Sega Sound crapped out, possibly because of some aligning issue. The S1's sound driver is mostly the same language as the game, but there's one small part that is also a different language, and, like before, you can find it in it's machine code form as z80_1.bin and z80_2.bin in the sound folder.

Sorry, I'm no good with detecting 'good' level layout, I'm better at finding 'bad'. Let's put it this way, after playing them enough times, I now love Marble Zone and Labyrinth Zone's layouts. Because of it, I like Ember Gardens act 2 as a Marble Zone-ish level. I find myself just comparing levels to their Sonic 1 counterpart, like that drop in Midnight Aurora act 2 where I'd expect to see goodies instead of death, I expected so because, for example, in GHZ act 3, you can leap over a large bed of spikes, fall into the large pit/waterfall behind it, only to find five ring monitors and an extra life, and a spring to send you back on your way. If I did that in SLZ, that pit would be bottomless.

That said, I played a section of Hydroruin act 1 a while back, and I have to say, I like that part with the switch and the door next to it that doesn't remain open. I found it to be a very good test of my timing and familiarity with underwater physics. I wouldn't mind Midnight Aurora act 2's loop if you hadn't made the 'hill' you're supposed to reach in order to progress so far away that you wouldn't know it was there unless you already know it's there and are actively trying to reach it. That part inside the loop with the selectively-falling-platforms-over-spikes could be made not-completetly-unfair to make the loop seem less daunting. But still, I would've liked an alternate route... Outside of S3K, I rarely find myself thinking about where to go in a level, especially your average GHZ-type level.

You say that it's the speed of the Time Bonus countdown that caused Markey's problem? It looks like he just got a really big time bonus, look at the first digit. It's a number so large, the game doesn't have an appropriate graphic for it. In my Sonic 2 hack on the level results screen, if your total score goes from 99999 to 100000, the first "9" doesn't become a "10", it becomes ":".

[Blueblur93]

Well about the time bonus, it's quite weird because the highest value I've set for it, is 75,000 points, but I have noticed as a bug when I've tried to speed up the countdown, but for the latest release I have decreased the speed of the Time Bonus Count, but that bug occurs now about 1/15 chance rather almost all the time. Maybe it could be to do with changing the value of the time bonuses possibly, or changing the duration between "SONIC GOT THROUGH" Title card and begin the Bonus countdown?

Also for the MAz act 2 level loop do you think possibly adding a bridge of rings is a good indication of how far to jump?

And also, to make my hack visually unique, without going overboard, I'm trying to edit GHz's level art on SONED2 but for all of the micro tiles, they just appear as a hollow square with a X in the middle attaching to the 4 corners of the square, so it's impossible to alter it. I don't suppose you know a way around it as well? Kind of what you see in this image where it's replacing the flowers, except for me it's covering everything, including platforms, etc. (By the way this isn't my image or the hack shown on it, it's just to show an example for anyone who's reading this.)

This post has been edited by Blueblur93: 18 May 2014 - 09:08 AM

[Clownacy]

I managed to recreate your SonED2 bug in SonLVL. I can't offer much advice on the tool since I don't use it, instead using SonLVL, which has a similar purpose. You see, GHZ's art is in two pieces. In the Hivebrain disasm, these art files are in the 'artnem' folder bearing the names '8x8ghz1.bin' and '8x8ghz2.bin'. GHZ is the only zone that does this. It looks like SonED2 is only loading 8x8ghz1.bin.

Find your .sep file for all GHZ levels and look for lines like this:

8x8 Compression:       3
Num 8x8 Pages:         1
8x8 Tiles Page 0:      ..\artnem\8x8ghz1.bin

You want to add to them like this:

8x8 Compression:       3
Num 8x8 Pages:         2
8x8 Tiles Page 0:      ..\artnem\8x8ghz1.bin
8x8 Tiles Page 1:      ..\artnem\8x8ghz2.bin

I can't seem to find any SonED2 .sep files for Hivebrain's disasm, if you can point me to any, I can provide some more accurate instructions. You just need to increase the 'Pages' counter to 2, and add a pointer to the second art file. This won't fix the flowers, but then again, nothing really could: They're not a part of the level art.

I can't comment on the Time Bonus bug, I've never taken a good look at the countdown code before.

Having a trail of rings guiding you across the gap sounds like it'd work. Given that you're hopping over rocks and spikes at that point, players should be going slow enough to notice them and get the hint.

EDIT: Reading it again, is ALL art replaced by those squares? If that's the case, it sounds like the above code isn't even pointing to the art anymore. You just gotta correct the above lines to point to where the art really is. If you haven't rearranged your files from the standard Hivebrain layout, they should be just as the above code shows.

This post has been edited by Clownacy: 18 May 2014 - 09:47 AM