[.Luke]

Mystic, on 16 March 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's a huge issue that I think has gone largely unnoticed by the player base, so it's never been fixed all these years, or it's difficult to troubleshoot. I don't quite know the story behind that.

It's not that it's largely unnoticed by the player base as much as the player base never even encounters it. The community consensus on the best way to play the game is using WASD and the mouse, like one would play a first person shooter. The game's controls are also designed with keyboard and mouse in mind, leading to common misconceptions amongst some players. For instance, in order to slow down in SRB2, you have to hold the opposite direction from your current momentum, as if you're holding left while moving right in the 2D Sonic games, which is rather contrary to the way the 3D Sonic games handle this.

Personally I suggest you play SRB2 with whatever control scheme you play first person shooters with, such as WASD and the mouse, dual analog sticks like a console FPS, or even keyboard only (several of the developers play this way very successfully). Give it a little time to get used to playing a platformer with those controls and you'll find the game controls much better.

*never knew Mystic was on Retro too and flips out*

So it's a known issue, but never been a priority? Keyboard/mouse controls are simply not as relaxing for me to use, (Staying close to the keyboard for WASD, and lots of arm movement for precise turns with the mouse.) so I prefer leaning back with a controller for single player adventures. On top of that, there are a lot of jumps and landings on very tiny platforms that I can't make without analog mode.

It's largely a preference for me. I gave the keyboard an honest try while I waited to stock up on PC controllers again a couple years ago, my form was very stiff and sloppy for the whole two weeks. RTSs, and first-person shooters as far back as Doom, are where I prefer a keyboard, 3D platformers and racers are disastrous for me to play with one.

Can I blame not playing enough pre-Dualshock PSX platformers as a kid on this one? /> The controls in Croc and Tomb Raider were something else to adjust to.

This post has been edited by .Luke: 16 March 2014 - 03:28 AM

[W.A.C.]

Mystic, on 16 March 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's a huge issue that I think has gone largely unnoticed by the player base, so it's never been fixed all these years, or it's difficult to troubleshoot. I don't quite know the story behind that.

It's not that it's largely unnoticed by the player base as much as the player base never even encounters it. The community consensus on the best way to play the game is using WASD and the mouse, like one would play a first person shooter. The game's controls are also designed with keyboard and mouse in mind, leading to common misconceptions amongst some players. For instance, in order to slow down in SRB2, you have to hold the opposite direction from your current momentum, as if you're holding left while moving right in the 2D Sonic games, which is rather contrary to the way the 3D Sonic games handle this.

Personally I suggest you play SRB2 with whatever control scheme you play first person shooters with, such as WASD and the mouse, dual analog sticks like a console FPS, or even keyboard only (several of the developers play this way very successfully). Give it a little time to get used to playing a platformer with those controls and you'll find the game controls much better.

While I understand the majority of users prefers FPS styled controls for this game, I like playing it in analog mode and have done so for well over a decade. Though not being able to move in more than eight directions can be really frustrating. Is there any chance analog mode will be improved in the future so you can go in more than 8 directions? Regarding the controls differences from 3D Sonic games, I like how going backwards makes you stop in mid-air in analog mode since it makes jumping on certain platforms a lot easier. Also thanks to everyone who works on this game for releasing v2.1. A lot of the level design and graphical changes really improves the experience, though I have a lot of nostalgia for the old level design. I used to play this game so much when I was younger. lol

Edit-

Any chance analog mode might be added to multiplayer someday? I asked years ago on the official forum, but that was years ago and one of my friends is bugging me to play co-op. lol

This post has been edited by W.A.C.: 16 March 2014 - 03:47 AM

[.Luke]

I've already posted a lot in this thread, but it does work in more than 8 directions on Windows, depending on the method of input, (I have a generic USB controller from RadioShack that plays nicely with analog mode, but not my S-Type XBOX controller, WTF.) and on Linux, all of my PC controllers behave with SRB2's analog mode. That seriously needs to be fixed, I'd do it myself if I was any bit competent in C.

The chances of it being added to multiplayer are kind of slim, sadly. One explanation I read years ago said that analog mode needs an extra object specifically for the camera, and I think that would have added up really fast in net games with a larger pool of players. A mode for four-player co-op with analog would be nice, however.

W.A.C said:

A lot of the level design and graphical changes really improves the experience, though I have a lot of nostalgia for the old level design. I used to play this game so much when I was younger. lol

I'd comment on the level design myself, but the sound issues I bumped into on WINE are a show-stopper for now. Although Techno Hill Zone does look way nicer now.

And if you miss the older levels, there's a mod for that in the SRB2 forums' 2.0.X releases level section, (SRB2 the Past, I think?) it's pretty nice. Mystic Realm is the more massively nostalgia-inducing map pack for me, I beat it way before seeing what all the 1.09 demo levels had to offer.

[W.A.C.]

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

I've already posted a lot in this thread, but it does work in more than 8 directions on Windows, depending on the method of input, (I have a generic USB controller from RadioShack that plays nicely with analog mode, but not my S-Type XBOX controller, WTF.) and on Linux, all of my PC controllers behave with SRB2's analog mode. That seriously needs to be fixed, I'd do it myself if I was any bit competent in C.

What? o_O It's possible to get analog mode to work well? Unfortunately, I gave my old crappy PC controller to a friend so I can't test to see if it works with that. If anyone could figure out how to get this working with xinput, that would be beyond awesome.

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

The chances of it being added to multiplayer are kind of slim, sadly. One explanation I read years ago said that analog mode needs an extra object specifically for the camera, and I think that would have added up really fast in net games with a larger pool of players. A mode for four-player co-op with analog would be nice, however.

Yeah, if I could use analog mode in co-op with a friend, that would be awesome.

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

I'd comment on the level design myself, but the sound issues I bumped into on WINE are a show-stopper for now. Although Techno Hill Zone does look way nicer now.

And if you miss the older levels, there's a mod for that in the SRB2 forums' 2.0.X releases level section, (SRB2 the Past, I think?) it's pretty nice. Mystic Realm is the more massively nostalgia-inducing map pack for me, I beat it way before seeing what all the 1.09 demo levels had to offer.

Yeah, I figured I could always use a mod or play an older build if I want my nostalgia fix.

Edit-

Worth mentioning I tested this game with my DualShock 4 plugged in without ControllerMax and experienced the same analog issues. I'm pretty sure the DualShock 4 is normally Direct Input on PC.

Edit-

I just figured out a way to get the left analog control to work great. If you have XPadder, set "Use Mouse" and "Mouse Move" to yes in the mouse options menu for player 1 controls. Then open up XPadder and make the left analog stick emulate a mouse. The option "Mouse - Normal" works great for me. Unfortunately, I have not found a way to make the right analog stick camera control works as nicely as they do with a mouse in the normal control settings. But if you want to strafe with a controller and have XPadder, I imagine making the right analog stick emulate camera controls should work pretty well.

Edit-

Tested XPadder with mouse controls emulated with the right analog stick and it works very well. Shame there's no way I can have true analog control movement for both movement and the camera regardless if I'm strafing or not.

Edit-

When using analog mode without a mouse set to emulate Sonic's movement, why does moving the mouse left to right make Sonic strafe to the left and right instead of moving the camera?

This post has been edited by W.A.C.: 16 March 2014 - 05:58 AM

[Jayextee]

Was that really fucking awful water zone ever fixed? With the tedious platforming section at the waterfall that doesn't really gel with the game's pacing (before that looping underwater section with the left/right choices)? Because in the old version, I kinda played until I died there and STOPPED. Was the opposite of fun.

[W.A.C.]

W.A.C., on 16 March 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

I just figured out a way to get the left analog control to work great. If you have XPadder, set "Use Mouse" and "Mouse Move" to yes in the mouse options menu for player 1 controls. Then open up XPadder and make the left analog stick emulate a mouse. The option "Mouse - Normal" works great for me. Unfortunately, I have not found a way to make the right analog stick camera control works as nicely as they do with a mouse in the normal control settings. But if you want to strafe with a controller and have XPadder, I imagine making the right analog stick emulate camera controls should work pretty well.

Edit-

Tested XPadder with mouse controls emulated with the right analog stick and it works very well. Shame there's no way I can have true analog control movement for both movement and the camera regardless if I'm strafing or not.

Edit-

When using analog mode without a mouse set to emulate Sonic's movement, why does moving the mouse left to right make Sonic strafe to the left and right instead of moving the camera?

I must have been delusional when I wrote that. No matter what, I'm unable to go more than eight directions regardless of what I do. However, emulating a mouse allows me to have much more control over my speed which makes navigating the levels far easier. Still, it would be great if full analog control was implemented someday. A hybrid of both strafing controls and normal platforming movement would also be lovely, especially for those boss battles.

[Techokami]

So when is the regular download going to be made available for people that aren't assed to install a torrent client?

[Blivsey]

Man, I didn't know so many people on Retro played this one. Maybe we should get a netgame together.

Jayextee, on 16 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Was that really fucking awful water zone ever fixed? With the tedious platforming section at the waterfall that doesn't really gel with the game's pacing (before that looping underwater section with the left/right choices)? Because in the old version, I kinda played until I died there and STOPPED. Was the opposite of fun.

I can confirm that waterfall is one hundred percent less ridiculous.

[BlazeHedgehog]

Mystic, on 16 March 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

.Luke, on 16 March 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's a huge issue that I think has gone largely unnoticed by the player base, so it's never been fixed all these years, or it's difficult to troubleshoot. I don't quite know the story behind that.

It's not that it's largely unnoticed by the player base as much as the player base never even encounters it. The community consensus on the best way to play the game is using WASD and the mouse, like one would play a first person shooter. The game's controls are also designed with keyboard and mouse in mind, leading to common misconceptions amongst some players. For instance, in order to slow down in SRB2, you have to hold the opposite direction from your current momentum, as if you're holding left while moving right in the 2D Sonic games, which is rather contrary to the way the 3D Sonic games handle this.

Personally I suggest you play SRB2 with whatever control scheme you play first person shooters with, such as WASD and the mouse, dual analog sticks like a console FPS, or even keyboard only (several of the developers play this way very successfully). Give it a little time to get used to playing a platformer with those controls and you'll find the game controls much better.

Well, you can say that, but it doesn't change the fact that you've made something that looks like a duck but only sort of quacks like one. What you are suggesting is less a fix and more of a workaround for what should be seen as a significant issue

WASD is "pro-mode" but not everyone wants that. I certainly don't!

This post has been edited by BlazeHedgehog: 16 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

[winterhell]

Analogue control does not have much of a reason to mess with the networking code. For the direction you are probably using at least 3 bits(8 directions),so if you increase it to 8 bits you can have 256 degrees. Position wise, you can be at the same spot with 8 and with 256 directions, so that variable does not have to change.

Movement wise it should be pretty straightforward, depending on how the engine is coded.

pos.x+=cos(stigckAngle)*currentVelocity;
pos.z+=sin(stickAngle)*currentVelocity;

[BlazeHedgehog]

Playing it now, some feedback:

• It would be a lot nicer if the radius for touching a checkpoint was doubled or even tripled. It's entirely too easy to run past a checkpoint without hitting it and having to double back for it specifically. That's not fun at all.
  
• Did the Green Flower Zone boss really need the second phase with the spike balls? The timing window for hitting him is ultra-specific now and in my opinion, way too complicated for the first boss of the game. Maybe drop it down from 4 to 2 or even 1.
  
• Love the NiGHTS special stages; this was an idea I had for Sonic: The Fated Hour back in the day.
  
• A general art direction tip: the floor should never be the same color as the walls. Even if the floor is just a darker/lighter version of the wall texture, it helps a lot differentiate them at a glance so distant geometry stands out more clearly. (THZ2 is SUPER guilty of this.)
  
• Techno Hill Zone looks great now! But you go from Act 1, which is maybe 2 minutes long, to act 2, which took me almost ten minutes, and that seems a little ridiculous.
  
• The whole "jump off the peak height of this piston to push the button and raise the water level" puzzle in THZ2 was a little obtuse. Maybe some rings to suggest what you have to do? Like an X right over the button, or a trail pointing down in to the muck, or something. It's such a weird, specific thing that I didn't expect it to work. (Instead, I was wondering if there was a button to signal Tails to airlift me out.)
  
• The rounded pipes you encounter early in THZ were super cool, was a shame to see them go back to square block pipes later in the level (sometimes with texture alignment issues...)
  
• Similarly, the pogo phase of the THZ boss moves a little too fast; it looks like he's ice skating a bit. Maybe have his forward movement pause until he leaves the ground?
  
• The game just quit to desktop in the middle of Deep Sea Zone Act 1. (OpenGL, Windowed mode) I got crushed, restarted from a checkpoint near the first room with the bomb-dropping surface skimming robots. Kept going, fell in to the water in a section with a lot of Detons (?) after losing the magnet shield. Tails got hit by one, and the game immediately closed.

This post has been edited by BlazeHedgehog: 16 March 2014 - 11:04 AM

[sonicblur]

Why are so many people mentioning WINE when there are native builds for Linux/OSX/Dreamcast available? What's missing?

That being said, it doesn't look like Alam actually tested the self-contained Mac build of 2.1.1, because it throws an error as soon as you open it. I guess I need to grab the source and build it myself.

This post has been edited by sonicblur: 16 March 2014 - 11:04 AM

[Super Napalm]

Is there/will there be a PSP or Dreamcast 2.1 port? Not that I aint loving it on the PC anyway but it would give me a great excuse to dust the old hardware off

[sonicblur]

Super Napalm, on 16 March 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Is there/will there be a PSP or Dreamcast 2.1 port? Not that I aint loving it on the PC anyway but it would give me a great excuse to dust the old hardware off

I mentioned DC in the post right above yours:
http://alam.srb2.org...nal/DC/Release/
The port appears to exist, but I'm not sure if it works or not because I don't think Alam tests them.

[.Luke]

Techokami said:

So when is the regular download going to be made available for people that aren't assed to install a torrent client? />

Lots of people have been uploading it everywhere, here's one link if it still works : http://www.mediafire...0-Installer.exe

sonicblur, on 16 March 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Why are so many people mentioning WINE when there are native builds for Linux/OSX/Dreamcast available? What's missing?

That being said, it doesn't look like Alam actually tested the self-contained Mac build of 2.1.1, because it throws an error as soon as you open it. I guess I need to grab the source and build it myself.

Alam mentioned it on the forums too, I guess it just wasn't advertised.

BlazeHedgehog said:

WASD is "pro-mode" but not everyone wants that. I certainly don't!

Heh, I've never once felt hindered by analog mode, so I don't see how either control scheme is superior to the other. It all depends on how you play the game, and with the way I get around in analog mode, that doesn't translate into the keyboard at all. I can crawla hop, land on streetlights and stop signs in Tortured Planet, and make whatever jump I want no problem with a controller.

W.A.C said:

I must have been delusional when I wrote that. No matter what, I'm unable to go more than eight directions regardless of what I do. However, emulating a mouse allows me to have much more control over my speed which makes navigating the levels far easier. Still, it would be great if full analog control was implemented someday. A hybrid of both strafing controls and normal platforming movement would also be lovely, especially for those boss battles.

Oh God, Xpadder. /> I loved it dearly before it stopped being freeware, but SRB2's analog mode is still 2x smoother than emulating mouse movement in Xpadder.