[TheKazeblade]

If we're talking about a hypothetical Sonic R-2, I'm going to make a music recommendation.

https://www.youtube....h?v=m-M1AtrxztU

When I first heard this song, I thought it sounded like a perfect 21st century update to the soundtrack from the original game.

[Captain L]

But we have to consider the obstacles to making another Sonic R game: there are only so many verbs in the English language that begin with R.

[::CMG (UTOPIA)::]

Captain L, on 08 March 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

But we have to consider the obstacles to making another Sonic R game: there are only so many verbs in the English language that begin with R.

Verbs: Radiated, Raging, Raining, Ramble, Raked, Ranked, Ransacked, Rattling, Raving, Reactivated, Reaping, Reappearing, Rearranged, Reassembled, Rebel... these are just a few examples from this list.

Nouns: Radio, Ranch, Rink, Rave, Roost, Road, Ruin, Relic, Rave, ect...

It's possible to make more than 4/5 stages, You just have to know how to english & be creative

[Lostgame]

Sonic R just had objectively bad controls. Some of the best 3D polygonal graphics on the Saturn, a great 2-player mode, but why, why on earth did they make the characters handle so poorly?

Did nobody notice this in testing?

I have had my friends try it out but honestly, everyone just asks why they keep ramming into walls and we end up playing Sega Rally or Nascar instead.

100% - music, graphics, level design (although the 5 levels is a little limiting...I notice a lot of Saturn games end up very short, anyone else?...NiGHTS is equally guilty)

This post has been edited by Lostgame: 17 March 2015 - 03:56 AM

[::CMG (UTOPIA)::]

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Sonic R just had objectively bad controls. Some of the best 3D polygonal graphics on the Saturn, a great 2-player mode, but why, why on earth did they make the characters handle so poorly?

Did nobody notice this in testing?

I have had my friends try it out but honestly, everyone just asks why they keep ramming into walls

I keep seeing people complain about the controls, but I've never had a problem with them, so either I must be really good at the game (considring I can get 1st place even on hard), or people are missing the point.

Sonic & crew handle like actual cars. If you've ever played "WipeOut", you'll know exactly what I mean. If you use the L & R buttons for steering, it makes life so much easier. Tails has the best handling when it comes to that, leaving Sonic & Metal sonic with the worst (but even then it's all about timing those corners so you don't "run into walls" as often).

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

we end up playing Sega Rally or Nascar instead.

oh the irony

[TheKazeblade]

If you were playing the PC version with a keyboard, controls were bad because the sharp turn buttons were mapped strangely. But as soon as you were playing it with a traditional controller with sharp turn on the triggers, everything was just fine.

[Dark Sonic]

::CMG (UTOPIA)::, on 17 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Sonic R just had objectively bad controls. Some of the best 3D polygonal graphics on the Saturn, a great 2-player mode, but why, why on earth did they make the characters handle so poorly?

Did nobody notice this in testing?

I have had my friends try it out but honestly, everyone just asks why they keep ramming into walls

I keep seeing people complain about the controls, but I've never had a problem with them, so either I must be really good at the game (considring I can get 1st place even on hard), or people are missing the point.

Sonic & crew handle like actual cars. If you've ever played "WipeOut", you'll know exactly what I mean. If you use the L & R buttons for steering, it makes life so much easier. Tails has the best handling when it comes to that, leaving Sonic & Metal sonic with the worst (but even then it's all about timing those corners so you don't "run into walls" as often).

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

we end up playing Sega Rally or Nascar instead.

oh the irony

Well the difference is that in that game they expect the characters to handle like a car. Sonic's running. It doesn't make any sense to have him control like that.

[Xilla]

An interesting thing to note is that according to this month's Retro Gamer feature on Sonic R, it started life as a Formula 1 simulator.

All that was built before it was redesigned as a Sonic game however was a McLaren Mercedes and a test track. Given how notoriously difficult the 1995/1996 McLarens were to drive, I think we have the answer as to why everyone handles so poorly

This post has been edited by Xilla: 17 March 2015 - 02:06 PM

[Lostgame]

Dark Sonic, on 17 March 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

::CMG (UTOPIA)::, on 17 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Sonic R just had objectively bad controls. Some of the best 3D polygonal graphics on the Saturn, a great 2-player mode, but why, why on earth did they make the characters handle so poorly?

Did nobody notice this in testing?

I have had my friends try it out but honestly, everyone just asks why they keep ramming into walls

I keep seeing people complain about the controls, but I've never had a problem with them, so either I must be really good at the game (considring I can get 1st place even on hard), or people are missing the point.

Sonic & crew handle like actual cars. If you've ever played "WipeOut", you'll know exactly what I mean. If you use the L & R buttons for steering, it makes life so much easier. Tails has the best handling when it comes to that, leaving Sonic & Metal sonic with the worst (but even then it's all about timing those corners so you don't "run into walls" as often).

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

we end up playing Sega Rally or Nascar instead.

oh the irony

Well the difference is that in that game they expect the characters to handle like a car. Sonic's running. It doesn't make any sense to have him control like that.

I was surprised you had to say it. Obviously, that's what's fucking *wrong* with the controls - Sonic is not a car.

Last time I checked.

And he's never handled like a car, either, except maybe in Sonic Labyrinth.

It's not that I can't beat it easily myself on hard either, when I compensate for the absolute lack of responsiveness in turning and really strange acceleration/deceleration issues.

"[Sonic R] made people feel like they were pushing a cinder block across a rubber floor using a pen cap."


Again, though, those visuals, though. Getting like 6 polygonal Sonic characters on the screen at once at a decent FPS on the Saturn was the huge feat there.

This post has been edited by Lostgame: 17 March 2015 - 03:46 PM

[::CMG (UTOPIA)::]

Dark Sonic, on 17 March 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Well the difference is that in that game they expect the characters to handle like a car. Sonic's running. It doesn't make any sense to have him control like that.

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Obviously, that's what's fucking *wrong* with the controls - Sonic is not a car.

Last time I checked.

And he's never handled like a car, either, except maybe in Sonic Labyrinth.

So let me see if I get this right... The sonic community justifies Unleashed/Colors/Generation's controls, and not Sonic R's controls because he "is not supposed to be controlled like a car"

......... mkay, let's do the math, shall we?

*Sonic R makes your character accell by either holding up, or one of the buttons on the controller
*Unleashed/Colors/Generations does the same thing too, only the "other" button is a "boost" button to make sonic go faster... something that racing games with cars don't do... oh wait... except for the Cruis'n games, the previously mentioned WipeOut, and even the MarioKart series (the fact that their power-ups in those games is irrelevant because you can call the Wisp the sonic equivilant of those power-ups too, especially Laser). Not to mention that all games (except the Cruis'n games) have boost pads on the ground to make the car/character move even faster.

*Sonic R has you use the L & R buttons to make sharp turns on corners
*Unleashed & Generations does the same thing with different buttons (not 100% sure about Colors), and somehow, these mechanics are better, why?

Unleashed (daytime), Colors, & Generations are praised as being the best games and having the better engine/mechanics/whatever... even though majority of Modern Sonic is like controlling a car that can jump and slide and attack. So if SEGA did decide to make another Sonic R but not have the characters control like cars, then they would move just like how they moved in Adventure1/2 and Heroes... and last time I checked, those games have either bad or mixed views depending on who you are.

Sonic Fan Logic folks />

[KingofHarts]

I loved Sonic R back in the day, got in as part of that Action 4 Pack for PC that I regrettably no longer own... I'd love to see it with new characters, Fang, Big, Shadow, AND Mighty and Ray pls.
Also replace the coins with Red Star Rings... the Red Star Rings today already use that sound byte anyways...

PS All the courses must start with R... if not, then it isn't legit... in any way.

Captain L, on 08 March 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

But we have to consider the obstacles to making another Sonic R game: there are only so many verbs in the English language that begin with R.

Radical, Radiant, and Reactive are adjectives... don't forget those. Just saiyan...

This post has been edited by KingofHarts: 18 March 2015 - 12:06 AM

[DigitalDuck]

::CMG (UTOPIA)::, on 17 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Sonic Fan Logic folks />/>

Alternatively, you're mixing opinions between a group of people who have different opinions.

[Skeledroid]

I want a new Sonic R that's got all the old levels, physics, everything and some new levels added. That's all and I can die happy.

[Dark Sonic]

::CMG (UTOPIA)::, on 17 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

So let me see if I get this right... The sonic community justifies Unleashed/Colors/Generation's controls, and not Sonic R's controls because he "is not supposed to be controlled like a car"

......... mkay, let's do the math, shall we?

*Sonic R makes your character accell by either holding up, or one of the buttons on the controller
*Unleashed/Colors/Generations does the same thing too, only the "other" button is a "boost" button to make sonic go faster... something that racing games with cars don't do... oh wait... except for the Cruis'n games, the previously mentioned WipeOut, and even the MarioKart series (the fact that their power-ups in those games is irrelevant because you can call the Wisp the sonic equivilant of those power-ups too, especially Laser). Not to mention that all games (except the Cruis'n games) have boost pads on the ground to make the car/character move even faster.

*Sonic R has you use the L & R buttons to make sharp turns on corners
*Unleashed & Generations does the same thing with different buttons (not 100% sure about Colors), and somehow, these mechanics are better, why?

Unleashed (daytime), Colors, & Generations are praised as being the best games and having the better engine/mechanics/whatever... even though majority of Modern Sonic is like controlling a car that can jump and slide and attack. So if SEGA did decide to make another Sonic R but not have the characters control like cars, then they would move just like how they moved in Adventure1/2 and Heroes... and last time I checked, those games have either bad or mixed views depending on who you are.

Sonic Fan Logic folks

Perhaps I didn't compare Sonic R's controls properly. Sonic R controls characters similarly to how I'd expect a tank to control. The characters are slow and their movements are clunky, things like turning around take forever, and regardless of what you say, turning is awkward.

The Boost era games also had car like controls yes, but those felt good and made sense. When Sonic drifts it looks and feels like he's actually drifting, not just leaning slightly and accidentally veering right. When you need to turn around, you just press back and he turns around. The car controls work for the Boost era because it's really fast. Sonic R is not fast. If anything Adventure 1 controls would work wonderfully in Sonic R. I never had a problem with how Adventure 1 or 2 feel (Heroes it's kind of like butter on ice so lets not get into that), I have a problem with everything else in those games. How Sonic handles is the one thing they got kinda right, and for the moderate speed the controls work.

If Sonic R 2 was made I would expect that it would control like the Boost era games, hell right down to the boost. I mean I like Sonic R, but mostly due to nostalgia. I don't look back at the game and am like "wow these controls are perfection." A 3 ft tall hedgehog going for a jog should not handle like a 2 ton machine. The Boost era games however needed the car controls, because if it controlled like SA1 but with a boost the game would be unplayable.

Speaking of all of this, I would love a Generations Mod that ported the Sonic R maps to the game. Might be fun to play around with.

[Lostgame]

::CMG (UTOPIA)::, on 17 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Dark Sonic, on 17 March 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Well the difference is that in that game they expect the characters to handle like a car. Sonic's running. It doesn't make any sense to have him control like that.

Lostgame, on 17 March 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Obviously, that's what's fucking *wrong* with the controls - Sonic is not a car.

Last time I checked.

And he's never handled like a car, either, except maybe in Sonic Labyrinth.

So let me see if I get this right... The sonic community justifies Unleashed/Colors/Generation's controls

Whoa, whoa, whoa, don't you dare put words in my mouth, look through my 3,000+ posts and see if you've ever heard me defend any of those. :P

Can't stand those controls, or those games for the most part. As far as I'm concerned there are no Sonic games beyond when Sega stopped manufacturing consoles.

I'm sure I'm not alone.

And to say Sonic R's controls are better than Sonic's handling in the original Adventure makes me think you have some sort of brain injury.

Or just haven't played the games.

Quote

A 3 ft tall hedgehog going for a jog should not handle like a 2 ton machine.

How can this even be argued? Also, for those saying the L/R triggers save the game, maybe you're not aware of the fact that not only are those turns way too sharp but they make you feel like you're sliding out of control.

I don't normally say something is *objectively* bad. But there's not a single character in the whole group who can actually turn, at a reasonable speed, like in any other Sonic game, ever, without awkwardly sliding across the screen and just semi-tilting to the side awkwardly for animation.

I like Sonic R. I really do. But to say the controls are even *okay* in comparison to Sonic's handling in Adventure 1 has got to be a joke, right?

(this is coming from a person who has a NTSC copy on his Saturn and the original PC CD...I guess the only other criticism is that it's way too short. I can finish the entire campaign generally on the second whirl through (since I don't think getting the emeralds count when you have to unlock the other characters, and I think Radical City (or one of them) requires you to do two runs to effectively get both emeralds.)

It's 'cause I'm good at the game, but I blow through it in an hour. I guess I blow through Sonic 2 in an hour, too, but I feel like Sonic 2 is just so...meaty, still, somehow.

This post has been edited by Lostgame: 18 March 2015 - 03:11 PM