[flarn2006]

I was recently banned from the Steam forums for "advocating / admitting to software piracy", despite not having done so. This is the post that got removed by a moderator, but had been quoted in other posts:

Quote

VAC does not detect cheats unless they are actually running. It doesn't scan your hard drive. Therefore, unless a cheat program is set to run on startup (which I can't think of any reason why it would) a reboot should be sufficient to clear everything out.



I don't think "cheat engine" is a generic term. It's the name of one specific program, which has many legitimate uses (like hacking single-player games) that VAC won't and shouldn't ban for. Having it installed on your computer isn't enough to trigger a VAC ban. From my experiences, even having it running while connected to a VAC-secured server won't trigger a ban, as long as it's not attached to a VAC-protected game. I've left it running before [b](after hacking in Sonic Adventure 2)[b] while connected to a server, so I contacted Valve support to be sure, and they said my account was not flagged to be banned. It's been more than two months since then, and I still haven't been banned.

I contacted support, as I figured they thought I was referring to cracking the game, I.e. removing DRM so I can use it without purchasing the game. I explained what I meant and mentioned that I legally own SA2, on their own distribution service no less. This is the response I got from them:

Quote

We have a zero tolerance policy towards the discussion or advocacy of software exploits. I have reviewed the ban and confirmed that it was applied correctly.

Since the post was in a thread related to VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat), I figured they thought I was referring to (if not piracy) hacking in multiplayer games, despite this not being the reason given for the ban. I understand that I have to follow their rules since they own the forum, but I doubt Valve of all companies would have a rule prohibiting the discussion of hacking singleplayer games (well it does have multiplayer, but it's not online, at least not officially.) Here's my reply:

Quote

I think you're confused. I was not attempting to bypass ANY type of digital rights management, or anything illegal. What I'm doing doesn't enable cheating in online multiplayer games either, although I know that's not what I was banned for. The "hack" I'm referring to is more like modding, which I know Valve supports.

I referred to the rules and found the section you are referring to, prohibiting the discussion of "cheating, hacking, [or] game exploits". However, common sense would dictate that this is referring to multiplayer games, as in singleplayer games it only affects the person doing the cheating, and is unfair to nobody. Can somebody please go into more detail as to exactly what "exploits" you think I'm referring to? Again, this is a singleplayer game, to which I own a legally-purchased license, and I am not condoning or assisting in piracy of this or any game. In addition, I was not banned for the discussion of game exploits; it was listed as being for advocating/admitting to piracy.

As I have just sent it, and they take a while to respond to support requests (and to release Episode 3), I haven't received a response yet.

This post has been edited by flarn2006: 27 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

[Chibisteven]

Be careful what you talk about on an official forum and two it's a zero tolerance policy. So good luck. Read the rules of the next forum you join very carefully. Zero tolerance means they don't think, they just do it if it's against their policy, no exceptions. Enjoy, the fun world of corporate bullshit and what not, stuff that is written for people in charge to not think on a case-by-case basis. Again good luck. I sincerly hope it doesn't affect your steam account.

[Master Emerald]

I've been banned from the Nights forum. Who cares...? lol

[Sodaholic]

Wow, this is fucking stupid. I feel for you, I hope it gets sorted out and they pull their heads out of their asses.

[Chibisteven]

The other thing leaderboards and steam achievements are what they going to see and be like, yeah keep him banned and if he complains anymore ban his account, too. Not exactly wise in the least. Technicially it would be unfair if leaderboards and best records of players of all around the world are kept. The only thing the game doesn't keep records on is the Chao.

Again best of luck.

This post has been edited by Chibisteven: 24 November 2013 - 08:32 AM

[Marcus101RR]

To add:

Regardless of purpose of games that are highly watched and tagged as "Zero Tolerance" goes without saying that modding a game, such as Sonic Generations, has resulted in many bans as well. I recently had two of my friends modify the game where the times for levels were recorded to be very low and unfair for leader boards. Steam immediately banned them from all services and discontinued their accounts.

The result was the same, they said its advocating piracy, mainly because the game was launched and bypassed the standard DRM provided by Steam themselves. After a long talk with another staff member, it has come to the conclusion they do not have a "Separate" reason for modding/cheating. So they just pile it on top of the same reason as "advocating / admitting to software piracy". The main excuse to this is: "We are well aware of the fact that modified clients, and mods themselves can be considered DRM-bypasses. They fall under the same category".

So essentially as a whole, the community has one more reason to pirate games. Simply by NOT pirating games you can fall under this problem with steam games because they track your account and if anything looks even remotely suspicious, you can fall under an Account Ban, VAC Ban, or worst.

Bottom line, Thank god for real piracy. You grab the game, download it, torrent it, crack it, and have a second copy of the game cracked to use all the mods, and cheats you want without contacting any service servers in the process. This works well for multiplayer games, and it cannot be tracked unless you openly admit it by saying "Yeah I cracked a second copy of this game".

Thus, your account is safe, also, secondly, always TURN OFF Steam and start it when you plan on playing legitly.

PS: Steam is notorious for this kind of actions, and many people have lost their account for unjust banning. Another reason why piracy exists.

This post has been edited by Marcus101RR: 13 February 2014 - 04:14 PM

[Dude]

Quote

(after hacking in Sonic Adventure 2)

In the future, always use the term modding when talking about such things. Using the word 'hacking' is pretty much asking to be banned.

This post has been edited by Dude: 13 February 2014 - 07:10 PM

[Epsilonsama]

Good ol' DRM strikes again.

This is the reason any DRM even moderate ones like Steam aren't good. Its not fair for the consumer to not be able to access the games you bought for any reason what so ever. I don't know if the TC cant now play his games but it still a dick move. Zero Tolerance is bullshit, and there's a reason no sound legal system revolves around that.

[Vangar]

The steam forum has always been like this. I was banned from there the week after HL2 was released because I was complaining about how I needed to download a 700mb patch day 1 on a dial up connection. Then I mentioned 'well screw that, I'll just get a cache extractor and play the game without steam' . Oops.

Official forums are overrated anyway.

[Ravenfreak]

Yeah certain forums are so strict in some cases, it's ridiculous. I mentioned that I like to hack Sonic on a paranormal forum I joined before and the moderators kept editing my posts and told me to read the rules. Needless to say I haven't been on that forum since, and I can't even remember the name of it. For all I know I probably have a few warnings for something as dumb as that. (It's not like I was distributing roms. )

[Oerg866]

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironc that this topic is being discussed in a place like sonic retro? :P

That said, extremely large places like Steam like to hire moderators without any kind of requirement... They like their powers, and they also like using them while having almost total immunity. It's one of the two reasons I don't even post on such forums (such meaning: steam, blizzard, etc)... the other being the shocking percentage of idiots... =V

[Glisp]

Ravenfreak, on 17 February 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

Yeah certain forums are so strict in some cases, it's ridiculous. I mentioned that I like to hack Sonic on a paranormal forum I joined before and the moderators kept editing my posts and told me to read the rules. Needless to say I haven't been on that forum since, and I can't even remember the name of it. /> For all I know I probably have a few warnings for something as dumb as that. (It's not like I was distributing roms. /> )

That's 90% of pokemon forums. It doesn't matter if you're talking about ROMs or hacks in a subtle way, it's guaranteed to get you in trouble because most of the owners of the sites are retards that know nothing about the gaming underworld or even want to deal with it. Same thing here.

. It's funny how Valve bans people for that kind of stuff but yet they allow modding of their games. Makes me scratch my head a little.

[flarn2006]

Glisp, on 20 February 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Ravenfreak, on 17 February 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

Yeah certain forums are so strict in some cases, it's ridiculous. I mentioned that I like to hack Sonic on a paranormal forum I joined before and the moderators kept editing my posts and told me to read the rules. Needless to say I haven't been on that forum since, and I can't even remember the name of it. />/>/>/>/>/>/> For all I know I probably have a few warnings for something as dumb as that. (It's not like I was distributing roms. />/>/>/>/>/>/> )

That's 90% of pokemon forums. It doesn't matter if you're talking about ROMs or hacks in a subtle way, it's guaranteed to get you in trouble because most of the owners of the sites are retards that know nothing about the gaming underworld or even want to deal with it. Same thing here.

. It's funny how Valve bans people for that kind of stuff but yet they allow modding of their games. Makes me scratch my head a little.

It's not a question of whether or not you "allow" modding; it's whether or not you make it easy. Thankfully Valve is one of the better companies with regards to this. Most developers though don't seem to care either way. Of course, some developers have to be dicks and intentionally try to make it hard, which there's really no excuse for IMO. Unless it's an MMO or something, of course.

Regarding Pokémon forums, are you referring to serebii.com by any chance? I'm not a member on that forum, but I have a cousin who used to be a moderator there, and she's mentioned to me having to ban people for talking about ROMs even though they don't hurt anyone. Why do they have rules like that anyway? To protect their asses in case Nintendo/Game Freak decides to overreact?

This post has been edited by flarn2006: 01 March 2014 - 03:11 AM

[Caverns 4]

flarn2006, on 01 March 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Why do they have rules like that anyway? To protect their asses in case Nintendo/Game Freak decides to overreact?

They -think- it would save their asses, yes. It's pretty funny, because the reality of it is that Nintendo or Game Freak could easily send them a cease and desist for any reason they want, because in the end Serebii is still just fan site that is not endorsed by Nintendo or Game Freak, and (as far as I know) don't have permission to be using their IP's.

Sombody correct my if I'm wrong, I'm explaining the law as I know it, and to my knowledge, a fansite does not constitute "fair use".

This post has been edited by Caverns 4: 04 March 2014 - 10:37 PM