[Wetflame]

If Saxman is right with the SCD theory, then R2 could be Neo Green Hill Zone.

[Quickman]

Simon said:

I've been hearing from oldbies/technies that there's no proven relationship between the name Dust Hill and the desert level mock-up. I was about to make corrections to the site, but I found the following from the Brenda Ross interview:

Quote

How far into the design did desert zone see? Was a boss for that level ever created?
I think that Dust Hill was completed entirely

Again, later in the interview:

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I came along later to create the desert/winter dust hill zone and the woods zone.

And again:

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Did the desert, winter, and woods zones have specific names?
Desert was dust hill. I don’t remember the rest.

That seems to confirm the connection, unless she was talking about another desert level, unrelated to the mock-up we have. (She didn't see the picture, it seems. "You’ll have to send me the image so I can see it.") Or, she's on crack.

ICEknight said:

I'll try to explain my reasons for still not thinking that Dust Hill was necessarily the desert level.

First of all, keep in mind that this interview was sent to her after she had already chosen the person to contact. So there was a previous email that was probably in the lines of those you've seen posted in these forums, asking things like "We know you made Dust Hill, tell us about it".

Also remember that, as stated in the first paragraph of the interview, she was completely flooded with emails speaking of Dust Hill, so in the couple of weeks (months?) while she was waiting for the interview to arrive, she was expecting to receive questions about that "Dust Hill" thing all the emails mentioned. She just wasn't in a position to say that they were all wrong only because she didn't remember the title. I think that, had we known about the winter level before, everybody would have mentioned "Winter Hill" or some other assumed name, in the emails she was sent, and she would have answered as if it was the real title.

I've just found something in the interview that could illustrate what I'm talking about...
In one of the first questions she was asked about the "woods zone" instead of "Wood Zone":

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If you could would you recreate the desert and woods zone?

Later, in one of the other questions, she assumed that it was the correct name and she said:

Quote

I think that Dust Hill was completed entirely, and woods zone was mostly done.

Exactly as the interviewer said, not even with added capital letters. She was already told that the desert was Dust Hill, so that's how she refers to it.

Also, due to the lack of everything professional in the interview and the huge dramas involving politics in the "Sonic scene" at that time, I wouldn't be surprised if some things were "corrected" by the people behind it.

As you see, there's many reasons why I still think that this interview can't be considered as the ultimate proof for the desert level being called "Dust Hill".

ICEknight said:

It's very simple:

-The Sonic 2 gold guide has pics from a beta with the old names in the level select, but with all the levels from the final and no scrapped levels (except from Hidden Palace).
-This level select had Wood, Genocide City and other useless crap removed, yet Dust Hill was left right there. They probably even changed its place in the menu to insert other levels, but the title itself wasn't changed since it wasn't just a leftover.
-Another pic from that same prototype shows a new-style title card with the words Neo Green Hill Zone, so the same would apply to Dust Hill.

These alone would be proof enough to make Naka scream that Dust Hill was indeed Mystic Cave's original title, but the most picky fanboys would say things like "What if they were inserting the desert again for that prototype and deleted mystic cave just to make that picture and confuse us??". Then, this EGM issue comes to the rescue.

-EGM claims the prototype to be almost complete, and it shows almost every stage that's shown in said level select menu (except for the last stages), so it's most likely the exact same prototype, if not a very similar one.
-The stages are listed in the final order and with their respective titles, in this preview. This means that the new title cards had been implemented at that point, since they noted down the Zone names while playing through the game. The order in this article would have been different had they been using the stage select menu, since the level order in there is very different.

Since they bothered to make a new "Dust Hill" title card for the caves, that discards the theory that Dust Hill was just a leftover from the desert level when it was in the level select menu.

This post has been edited by Quick Man: 14 September 2004 - 06:08 PM

[Wetflame]

You sort of ignored my 2 big points of proof, Quick Man =P Even if it's only to make it possible.

Also, I find this rather insulting to Brenda. Just because she slipped once doesn't mean she's entirely open to suggestion. Also, she said Dust Hill without being immediately cued(EDIT - I think I remember something. Dammit, Iceknighh, did you have to edit the logs just to prove your damn point!? That only confuses everyone further), so it was probably just a slip. Talk to Dust Hill Guy sometime, and use an emoticon; hje'l sue the same one back without thinking in his next sentence.

Also, she calls the Wood zone pic that was sent to her "Wood2.jpg" on her site, so she knew it was Wood Zone.

Also, Brenda appears to have designed the "Postcard" with Sonic and Santa playing Sonic 2 Beta?

EDIT - http://members.tripod.com/edge_x2/ - even Pach didn't go as far as to say Dust Hill Zone was never in the game =P There are one or two interesting things there, but still a bit nyeh.

This post has been edited by Wetflame: 14 September 2004 - 06:58 PM

[Wetflame]

Okay, actually dissecting the interview -

Quote

#  Well, some people suspect that the screen shot was not an actual screenshot. Rather, it was an image created using a computer and some paint program. What do you have to say about this?
It was a real level.

Quote

# Was Dust Hill Zone ever completed? If not, at least how far was it?
I think it was completed. I couldn’t have gone on to create the woods zone if it hadn’t been. They just didn’t have time to add it to the game.

This is interesting, but I don't know what she means for certain. It's quite possible Dust Hill didn't actually have a level.

However, what I gather from this is the the levels are created Externally; and added later.
So there IS a Dust Hill Zone, or whatver you want to call it; actual level layout that was finished; but not actually added to a rom that was released to the public.

So it existed, but it's unlikely we'll ever see it.

Also -

Quote

Did the desert, winter, and woods zones have specific names?
Desert was dust hill. I don’t remember the rest.

Just as many people would have mentioned Wood Zone as Dust Hill, quite possible. Yet she only remembers Dust hill. And you don't get that assertive about something some Sonic fanboy kiddies tell you.

[LOst]

Okay, now I get it. Weflame is here. Why arguing with him? It's pointless

[Wetflame]

What the fuck is that meant to mean?

This post has been edited by Wetflame: 14 September 2004 - 08:18 PM

[Frigidare]

Dust Hill could have been a completely different level. Neither desert or cave. Quickman's magazine extracts prove nothing more than what Zone the level select pointer named "Dust Hill Zone" pointed to.

[Syren]

MasterEmerald, on Sep 15 2004, 12:27 PM, said:

Dust Hill could have been a completely different level. Neither desert or cave. Quickman's magazine extracts prove nothing more than what Zone the level select pointer named "Dust Hill Zone" pointed to.

I agree. The magazine that Quick Man scanned (or obtained the scans of) could just prove that we have an earlier if not the same beta that they have.

[Wetflame]

That's a very good point, Quick Man. What fucing difference does that shot make? It seems that the beta we have is the one that most magazines got, so of course you'd only see Dust Hill attatched to Mystic Caves.

[Syren]

Quick Man, on Feb 2004, 06:07 PM, said:

Quote

still, the author needs spell check badly

No they don't. Every word there is correct.

Quote

(Doctionary.com)

Ahem.

Personally, I think the rings there are a little suspicious. They're a little too random to be spilled, and they're all the perfectly round sprite, something we only ever see on the mock-ups.

You are using the scan that you yourself somewhat think is a mock up. I agree with the quoted arguments against the scan, though.

[Wetflame]

Okay, I asked Brenda and she said she used the working name "Desert Level" but as far as she remembers the name was indeed intended to be Dust Hill when it was put in the game.

If she remembers that she gave it her own working name, no matter how simple, chances are her memory is right on this one.

Sorry, IceKnight =/ It miht have bene almost another 3 years, but you remember some things with time too, especially if you're reminded.

None of the art ever made it into the game.

I'm editting the log and I'll post it soon.

Also, has anyone talked to the art director?

EDIT: Actually, I've anticipated the reaction, and I'm pretty annoyed. You don't truth the person who drew the art, you don't trust common sense, you don't trust decent theory, all you trust is something that was almost defintiely a pointer mix up due to rushed time. Because it's TECHNICAL.

PLAUSIBLE SCENARIO:

The level select name for Dust Hill was made; but it enver made it in. Instead they dumped in Mystic Caves, an unnamed level, and didn't bother changing the name, since it's only a beta. It remained that way until the final, since there was no point changing it, since they already had a name, even if it was only a mix-up. Like Monkey Kong and Donkey Kong (Note: I'm not sure if it's true, but the fact that people believed it so much shows it's possible =P)

This post has been edited by Wetflame: 15 September 2004 - 01:11 PM

[8-Bit Dragon]

Wetflame, on Sep 15 2004, 12:57 PM, said:

PLAUSIBLE SCENARIO:

The level select name for Dust Hill was made; but it enver made it in. Instead they dumped in Mystic Caves, an unnamed level, and didn't bother changing the name, since it's only a beta. It remained that way until the final, since there was no point changing it, since they already had a name, even if it was only a mix-up. Like Monkey Kong and Donkey Kong (Note: I'm not sure if it's true, but the fact that people believed it so much shows it's possible =P)

THANK YOU! :P

[Wetflame]

Brenda got me in contact with the Art Director, anyone any questions for him?

[Qjimbo]

Nice one wetflame for geting more evidence :D
I look forward to reading the chat log (and with your permission I would really like to add it to my interview archive).

EDIT:

Quote

Brenda got me in contact with the Art Director, anyone any questions for him?

He might know something about the time travel concept if there was one. Hell if he organized the art he'd know a ton of stuff, hmm, boiling it down to questions is not something I'm great at.

This post has been edited by QJimbo: 15 September 2004 - 01:47 PM

[Frigidare]

Wetflame, on Sep 15 2004, 07:45 PM, said:

Brenda got me in contact with the Art Director, anyone any questions for him?

I'll be the first one to say it.

"What was the planned name for the desert level in Sonic 2?"

Best if it was worded like that, to stop him using our ideas for names. Ask that question only. If he queries, show him the mock-up.