[doc eggfan]

I recently got the japanese version of Virtua Racing for the Mega Drive, since it was cheap and good to have a legit copy with the SVP (since it can't run in a flash cart without it).

I was testing it out in my Laseractive, which I have hooked up to an upscaler (aka line doubler) for watching laserdisc movies at 480p. This mode doesn't work with the video mode of all the mega drive games and mega cd games I've played so far. You can make out the image, but the colour shifts in a cycling rainbow which is distracting. The laseractive has 2 composite video outputs, so it's not a problem, I just flick between AV and YPbPr for playing games and watching movies.

However, I happened to check the output for Virtua Racing on the component chanel and, surprisingly, it works perfectly with the upscaler, which means I can play V.R. in glorious High Def 480p! And if I set the video mode zoom to Cinema (like I do with widescreen laserdisc movies), I can cut out the black bars and play in Widescreen!

Unfortunately, I don't have a means of capturing high def video. I plan to film the TV screen with my camera tonight to demonstrate, I didn't have my camera when I tested it last night.

Are there any other Mega Drive games that use the same video mode as V.R.? I'd be interested to test them out in HD.

[Meat Miracle]

Virtua Racing was just running in 192px height to save on the polygon fillrate ever so much. It's not a "video mode" as it were, it just... doesn't draw any gfx in that area.

Shit, you could just play any non-pal optimized game on a PAL TV and it'll need at least 14:9 aspect to not have borders.

[doc eggfan]

surely there's more to it than that. Going from 240p/480i to 480p with most games doesn't work, but for V.R. it does.

[Meat Miracle]

It is possible that the extra black area made the signal more stable for your low-quality upscaler.

[doc eggfan]

Meat Miracle, on 19 June 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

It is possible that the extra black area made the signal more stable for your low-quality upscaler.

I guess that could explain it.

I've got a DVDO iScan Pro, which was recommened and top of the line at one stage, but has probably been superceded.

[Shadow Hog]

• I wouldn't really call 480p "HD".
• For proper HD upscaling (720p, notably; 1080p would be nice but 1080 / 240 = 4.5 = ew), most people knowledgeable about the subject tend to recommend the Micomsoft XRGB-mini "Framemeister". However, since they're ~$400 and most of those enthusiasts focus on RGB while I presently max out at S-Video, I've not actually bought one myself to try it out.
• The main article for upscalers, while it lists yours, doesn't mention the problem you're having. Weird.
• I actually can't answer the question you explicitly asked, so I'm just kinda listing what I do know in the hopes it's of some use to the topic.

This post has been edited by Shadow Hog: 20 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

[SpeedStarTMQ]

I don't get upscaling- you're making the picture larger, but if the picture is already at maximum size when you plug it in, what are you gaining? With consoles like the Mega Drive where there's only a set amount of pixels without the detail of HD consoles nowadays, wouldn't it look the same as if you just plugged the Mega Drive in either way?

I'm quite ignorant on the subject but in my mind I can't figure out what difference it would make.

Though I do like your choice of game- I bought VR for the Mega Drive (PAL) recently, bloody fantastic game! Can't even beat the second stage on Easy though- those damn corners! The other cars barely even brake around corners!

Let me know how you fare

[doc eggfan]

Well, the idea is to improve the quality from 480i to 480p by doubling each interlaced frame so that the full image is refreshed with every pass. Not a huge jump in quality, but it does make a difference. It still doesn't really look that great on a digital screen - the intended dithering doesn't really work and you can see each jagged pixel.

Didn't get any footage tonight, my jap LA pac is playing up.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

May I suggest having the image as normal as possible without any additional sharpness? If you blur the image conpletely you can help dithering effects. You can test how good the image looks by playing around with the menu whilst playing Sonic 1 and having Sonic go behind a waterfall.

My TV has a "GAME" mode that disables all sharpness and additions, and the Mega Drive looks great with my RGB cable. It still is quite sharp and it looks a lot more pixellated that say, if I were playing the games on an emulator like Sonic Mega Collection, but it's still impressive.

As I'm aware, upscalers don't add to the quality, but they mask artifacts that appear when the imaged is upscaled so give the appearance of better quality. That's no different from using various settings on your TV? How does your image look when plugged in normally?

[Black Squirrel]

Shadow Hog, on 20 June 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

I wouldn't really call 480p "HD".

but it's twice Sega's definition of HD


To be honest though you don't really want super crisp Mega Drive video - it destroys a lot of graphical effects

[GerbilSoft]

Probably the main reason to use a line doubler on a Mega Drive is because the MD doesn't use 480i normally - it uses "240p". A lot of HDTVs misinterpret 240p as 480i, and end up screwing up the image.

I got a scan converter a few months ago that unfortunately has the same issue - they misdetect the MD's signals as interlaced, and end up deinterlacing a non-interlaced signal. It works great for 480i mode though (Sonic 2 2PVS), and has other useful functionality like YPbPr to RGB conversion (and vice-versa), so I still have some use for it.

[Meat Miracle]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 20 June 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

May I suggest having the image as normal as possible without any additional sharpness? If you blur the image conpletely you can help dithering effects. You can test how good the image looks by playing around with the menu whilst playing Sonic 1 and having Sonic go behind a waterfall.

My TV has a "GAME" mode that disables all sharpness and additions, and the Mega Drive looks great with my RGB cable. It still is quite sharp and it looks a lot more pixellated that say, if I were playing the games on an emulator like Sonic Mega Collection, but it's still impressive.

As I'm aware, upscalers don't add to the quality, but they mask artifacts that appear when the imaged is upscaled so give the appearance of better quality. That's no different from using various settings on your TV? How does your image look when plugged in normally?

Modern TVs don't know that CRT trick that old games did to force 240p signal, apparently it was sort of a hack. So they consider all old console signals as interlaced, and apply deinterlacing. That, and they only do a basic stretch to full screen most of the time.

Upscalers convert the analog signal to a proper digital signal, at various resolutions, with minimal lag, and sometimes with custom filters like scanline effects (thinking of hi-end ones like the XRGB here). In essence they make games look as good on a digital TV as they would on an analog one.

[TmEE]

240/288p does not have half lines in the video. That makes the new field go on top of old not inbetween. 480/576i there's an half line every field and that displaces the vertical position of the beam a little and new field will go inbetween last. It is not exactly a hack or anything. Modern digital equipment just ignores full or half lines and assumes all SD content in interlaced.
If the half line is not exactly half the next field lines will also not be exactly in the middle of old field ones. It is really clever how this stuff works.

[mentski]

PLugging my MD setup via SCART into my Samsung LCD is great for me, apart from that damn jailbaring. Really need to make a sync stripper at some point.

(I know you can lift a pin on the MD's video encoder, but that only works if you're connecting straight from a model one MD to the TV - add a 32x and the bars come back...)

[Shadow Hog]

I know the jalibars drive me mad with my S-Video-modded Genesis; you're saying they affect RGB SCART, too? Bah.