[doc eggfan]

As I near the end of my wishlist for my Dreamcast (and Naomi [and Atomiswave]) collection, I started looking further afield at the exclusive sega xbox games, such as Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future and GunValkyrie. You know, all those dreamcast games that came along so late in the Dreamcast's lifespan that they were never actually released on Dreamcast. Since I know nothing about the xbox, I thought I'd start a discussion here (although it may be more appropriate in the general gaming forum).

I could probably get an original pal xbox really cheap from around here somewhere, but I'm considering whether it would be better to invest in a 60Hz NTSC model and get it shipped from overseas. It's likely that the shipping will cost more than the xbox itself, so not sure if it's worth the hassle. Does the PAL xbox have a 60Hz mode for Pal games like the Dreamcast did? What video output does it support? VGA, component or hdmi?

Is there likely to be problems with second-hand xboxs, like the 360s RROD? I could get a 360, and rely on the forward compatibility of original xbox games, but I hear the emulation can be a bit ropey and prone to slow down, so I'm probably better off with the original. It's a shame that they're so damn big and bulky, I don't really have space for one at the moment.

Anything else I should know? I could probably get Halo or something too, but I'm mostly just interested in Orta and JSRF.

[Jason]

I own JSRF and Orta on 360. Orta runs without issue. JSRF, on the other hand, has some slowdown in a few specific areas; mainly the Skyscraper district in the highway section, and a good chunk of 99th Street. Other than those few blemishes, it runs at a smooth 60fps. You can get an Xbox for about $40 US if you're looking for the completely authentic experience.

[Techokami]

Probably the biggest thing to look out for with the original Xbox is defective soldering on the internal power supply. There was a recall, and an incorrect solution was distributed by Microsoft (the power brick they sold didn't actually fix the bad solder jobs).
To avoid this, look for US consoles made after Oct. 23, 2003, and EU consoles made after Jan. 13, 2004. If you get a console that is made earlier, and want to make sure it's fine, you will have to open it up and examine the soldering of the two primary power pins on the PSU. You can be lucky and get one with a solid solder job! But if the solder is cracked or lifting, you'll have to get out a soldering iron and some fresh solder to redo the connections, otherwise you will run the risk of an electrical fire.

As for video connections, the original Xbox did not have HDMI. Composite and component, yes. I think there is a way to get it to output VGA?

[JaxTH]

If you get an Xbox you should mod it.

I believe they can be modded to be made region-free.

[Eric Wright]

Holy shit, yes if you get a classic Xbox, mod that fucker.

There are a myriad of different methods for modding the machine, each one with its own pros and cons. I used a mod triggered by the 007AUF save exploit; it would install a custom dashboard, but you could still access the default M$ dash for other settings. That particular installer only offered Evox and some other dash (after installing its other bits), so I would always install Evox when starting the mod, then find the latest version of UnleashX and swap that. UnleashX was AWESOME, gave you a lot of control over its interface and even had a good file browser for copying and deleting stuff.

I used to get all my files and utilities from some random, secret-ish FTP and IRC channel (you'd have to log into the IRC channel, message a certain bot, then it would give you a single-session login to the FTP server) but I don't remember the link and I don't even know if any of it is still up and running. ...wow, that was like... almost a decade ago?? Crazy... I used to do a lot of quirky mod stuff now that I think about it. o/~ meeemorieees o/~

anyway, if you want to try and find the installer I used, search for the "ltools" installer (that's a lowercase L), or I can dig through the storage drive of my old machine and try and find some useful shit. Just remember, you need some way to get these files onto an Xbox memory card... you can build a hacked card and use some Action Replay program on your computer, or if someone you know has a modded Xbox, you can just FTP the files onto their machine, and copy them onto your memory card in the xbox dashboard.

There are also utilities that let you install a bigger hard drive in the Xbox, but you have to work a little bit of magic to make it happen (get the IDE lock code, flash it to the new drive, install all the files from the original drive onto the new drive, etc etc... this process is best done with AS LITTLE SHIT ON THE ORIGINAL HARD DRIVE AS POSSIBLE... like, delete all installed music, delete all save files, delete all games, etc, because you have to backup the dashboard and OS data from the original drive, and make a boot disc for your computer with all of it and the program that builds the new hard drive; so the less stuff it has to copy, the shorter the process takes). I have a 300gb hard drive in mine, with all my games installed (and more), TONS of emulators and roms, XBMC, etc etc. You can either install from the disc, or you can get a program that will open the ISO on your computer and you can transfer it over FTP; I used to do it this way so I could shrink the total game size by removing stuff that I didn't need in order to save room on the hard drive (shit like different language audio files, or sometimes I would shrink unnecessary videos down or remove them entirely... I think the video tool was called Bink or something)

Also, make sure you get one with the Samsung drive... the disc tray has two little circular holes in the plastic molding when you open the tray:
http://www.llamma.co..._comparison.htm
the Philips and Thompson drives seemed to wear out over time, and weren't as versatile as the Samsung drive (like, I don't think the other two read CDRs, for example)

I'd try to get an NTSC model from here in the states, and maybe just swap out the internal PSU board with one from a PAL machine (if that's possible... I assume both would deliver the same internal voltages and lines and all that jazz... that's what I did with a PAL PSX so I could use it here, I just threw a 60hz NTSC PSU in the thing lol ). The xbox will do component video, but you'll have to scour around online to find info about SCART 'cause I have no clue about that. There was some company making VGA adaptors for it, but you also need some piece of software installed on a modded unit to make it function properly (something with "freeze" or "ice" in the name? no clue, never tried to track one down since component video was fine for me).

As far as the games go; Outrun 2 (I personally like it more than Coast 2 Coast or the recent Online Arcade)< Crazy Taxi 3, Panzer Dragoon, and whatever else are all good. I know the PS2 and Gamecube had some of the best games of that generation of consoles, but there are still other things on the classic Xbox worth checking out... I also prefer the Xbox versions of Sonic Heroes, Sonic Riders and Shadow... and Monkey Ball DX is a compilation of SMB1 and 2 from Gamecube, with added features. Jeeze, I almost wanna haul out my old Xbox again lol...

This post has been edited by Eric Wright: 03 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

[Techokami]

Eric Wright, on 03 June 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

the Philips and Thompson drives seemed to wear out over time, and weren't as versatile as the Samsung drive (like, I don't think the other two read CDRs, for example)

The Phillips and Thompson drives do not read CD-Rs. I know this first hand.

[Meat Miracle]

Orta can't do 480p on the later Xbox motherboards, which is a big issue for HDTVs (otherwise you have to deal with their shitty built-in deinterlacing which destroys all video quality).

Funny story, I got myself an Xbox just to play Orta, and it has one of those decoders that bugs up 480p on JUST THAT ONE GAME. Actually one or two others are affected too, but seriously.

There's also Otogi and Spikeout which are xbox exclusive Sega games.

[dsrb]

Glad you pointed that out... I too have this long-running plan to get an Xbox solely for Orta. Trust there to be pitfalls.

Does that apply to all models, or just PAL? I see from a quick search that Orta has a PAL60 mode, so perhaps I won't need to import.

On that note, you'll probably want this, doc: http://palgn.com.au/..._60Hz_Guide.txt The Xbox is covered in section 5.

[Overlord]

Seconding modding the Xbox. I have a few of the things and the modded one is probably the best one I've got - bought the kit and did it myself, though this was a few years ago when you could easily buy the parts new.

[grap3fruitman]

The Xbox was pretty generous with its video output. If you mod it, you should be able to play any region game without worrying about getting video out. The problem is getting an Xbox modded these days. A softmod is possible but that requires tracking down one of a handful of games and some other hardware that are hard to come by. Not to mention that if the HDD goes, your system is now basically useless. If you do a hardmod (chip) you can still use the system even if the HDD dies and just plop in another one easily. Tracking down an Xbox modchip these days is also next to impossible these days. It took me forever to find a place that had one in stock just two years ago and I'm in the US. I don't know how much luck you'd have now and add the fact that you're in the AU... Good luck!

For game recommendations, I would suggest Dead or Alive Ultimate and the Japanese version of Dead or Alive 3.

[doc eggfan]

Everyone's suggesting modding, but what does that get me? Region free, piracy, previous gen emulators and a media centre? am I missing anything? I can do most of that on my PC, and original xbox games are cheap enough to not worry too much about piracy. I would mod if it were easy and cheap and available, but seeing as that isn't the case I don't think I'll worry about it.

Based on dsrb's list above, most of the games I'm interested in have a PAL60 mode (notable exception of Halo), so the bare minimum I need is an early model xbox to play Orta in PAL60 480p. Any distinguishing features to the early models?

[dsrb]

Glad the link was helpful to you. I realise the list is far from exhaustive due to having been released in 2004, when there were many games yet to be released, which is a shame. Hopefully there's a more up-to-date list somewhere. Maybe inferences about other games can be drawn from the list of which games are forward-compatible to the Xbox 360 and its 60 Hz mode.

Still, if anything, I suspect games supporting 60 Hz would be even more common as time went on, so I'd imagine the old list will be fairly representative of the catalogue overall.

Quote

the bare minimum I need is an early model xbox to play Orta in PAL60 480p. Any distinguishing features to the early models?

I'm also very interested in this, for precisely the same reason!

[Meat Miracle]

dsrb, on 03 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Glad you pointed that out... I too have this long-running plan to get an Xbox solely for Orta. Trust there to be pitfalls.

Does that apply to all models, or just PAL? I see from a quick search that Orta has a PAL60 mode, so perhaps I won't need to import.

On that note, you'll probably want this, doc: http://palgn.com.au/..._60Hz_Guide.txt The Xbox is covered in section 5.

iirc it applies to all rev 6 Xboxes that used the last type of video DAC, Xcalibur.

There are various guides out there on how to identify the xbox by serial or manufacturing dates - if you get one that was Made in Hungary, those are guaranteed to be the earliest type of units. I don't know which ones are more easily moddable though.

[Eric Wright]

but I think the earliest models use the Thompson drive... mine is a 1.3 with the samsung drive and I have never had ANY issues with it at all; never overheated, the dvd drive never flaked out, I didn't have the cold-solder-join on the power connector, plays games fine, etc etc.

Pretty much everything you need to know about picking the right model for your purpose is available here:
http://www.racketboy...hp?f=52&t=42971

[mentski]

PAL Xboxs have an option to run in 50 or 60Hz in the BIOS, so don't worry about faffing about buying a US one (only a handful of games will force 50hz, none of the Sega ones as far as I'm aware), and as others have said, watch out the the PSUs in earlier models - they've been known to short.