[Skyler]

Okay folks, I'm trying to do what it says in the title. Now the problem is, I know very little about how the Saturn does things, so I'm completely stumped as to what to do.

With some help from Eric, I've learned that the instruments appear to be sorted into separate SND files right on the disc. Opening one raw in Audacity gets us...



Splendid.


However, let's listen to that file and hear how it sounds:  SJAM.mp3 (66.33K)
Number of downloads: 3 (SoundCloud link if you're lame and can't/don't want to download it)

Holy shit.

It's obvious that the samples are in there, but even more obvious is the fact that they're nothing like how they sound in-game. My question is, is there a quick, efficient way to extract these samples as they sound in the game, or will I be stuck with the busywork of individually editing each waveform in Audacity, possibly with fruitless results?


TL;DR halp.

This post has been edited by Skyler: 29 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

[dsrb]

I replied the same to your last post asking about this. Assuming Jam uses the same sequenced/sampled audio formats as other games, it's simple. Go to CyberWarriorX's site, get TONCNV and SEQ2MID, profit. I've explained this in more detail in threads that I either started or replied to before.

http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=28801 previous discussion
http://forums.thewil...opic.php?t=3367 My post on the methods in more detail
http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=30095 where I replied to you before but seemingly we all got ignored

Again, these assume Jam uses the same formats. But it's definitely the best thing to try first.

This post has been edited by dsrb: 29 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

[Skyler]

dsrb, on 29 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I replied the same to your last post asking about this. It's all already been done. Go to CyberWarriorX's site, get TONCNV and SEQ2MID, profit. I've explained this in more detail in threads that I either started or replied to before.

http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=28801 previous discussion
http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=30095 where I replied to you before but seemingly we all got ignored

None of it was ignored. I simply haven't had much of a chance to look into it until now.

[dsrb]

Cool. Well, using CWX's tools should be really easy. You can extract TON-formatted sounds to individual WAVs or, for best use (I.e. with looping, pitch-correction, etc.) to a DLS file, which is almost a SoundFont and can be played by various VSTs and whatnot. I edited my post to give a bit more info.

[Eric Wright]

doesn't seem like Jam uses .TONe files... samples for Sonic World and the menus and stuff are stored in a .SND file, which can be imported by Audacity as a raw file...


throwing the .SND files into TONCNV renders some results though... it manages to make individual .WAV samples of everything in the .SND file, but I don't know if the resultant .WAVs aren't clipped improperly (some seem too short to be an insturment? but I'm not familiar with sequencing/tracking stuff, so who knows). It creates 22050 hz samples...

when you import the entire .SND file in Audacity and specify 22050, all the samples are clearly recognizable, but there's a bit of garbled data at the end, I'm almost wondering if THAT houses the sequence data for the songs that use eh instruments in that particular .SND bank

[dsrb]

Eric Wright, on 29 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

doesn't seem like Jam uses .TONe files... […] throwing the .SND files into TONCNV renders some results though... it manages to make individual .WAV samples of everything in the .SND file

So it does use TON files, in other words. It's not necessary for them to be named *.TON. As described in the threads I already linked.

Quote

but I don't know if the resultant .WAVs aren't clipped improperly (some seem too short to be an insturment? but I'm not familiar with sequencing/tracking stuff, so who knows).

Simply the lack of looping points. Again, I mentioned this as a reason to prefer DLS instead.

Quote

when you import the entire .SND file in Audacity and specify 22050, all the samples are clearly recognizable, but there's a bit of garbled data at the end, I'm almost wondering if THAT houses the sequence data for the songs that use eh instruments in that particular .SND bank

It's a possibility. In that case, you would need to cut the file, possibly multiple times, and see whether SEQ2MID can do anything with the result(s).

[Eric Wright]

how would I cut the file? Load it up in a hex editor and look for a point where it seems like audio and data are clearly different?

Also, when using TONCNV and trying to export a .dls, I get an error on a couple instruments saying
"Warning! Instrument 17 - Layer 0 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 17 - Layer 0 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 18 - Layer 2 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 18 - Layer 2 is using Alternating loops!"
obviously those instruments must be looping samples, but I don't know what the layer stuff means, or technically what any of it is referring to (other than maybe you have to edit the DLS manually to specify loop points?)

and is there a simple free utility like ModPlug player or something that I can use for DLS and midi sequences? I don't actually do any of this stuff so I don't have programs at the ready

also, one of the other .SND files didn't seem to contain any intelligible instruments, even though TONCNV pooped out a bunch of stuff... would that, then, be a case of sieving through other data files for an ascii string pointing to these .SND files and maybe trying to see if it has instruction that tells the saturn how to handle and access the data? (I'm sure there are other people here far more capable of all this shit lol)

[dsrb]

Eric Wright, on 29 March 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

how would I cut the file? Load it up in a hex editor and look for a point where it seems like audio and data are clearly different?

Pretty much. You'd need to have an idea of what you're looking for, though, so your implication at the end of your post that this might be best left to other people is probably correct. Unfortunately, I have never tried any separation myself, so I can't advise.

Quote

Also, when using TONCNV and trying to export a .dls, I get an error on a couple instruments saying
"Warning! Instrument 17 - Layer 0 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 17 - Layer 0 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 18 - Layer 2 is using Alternating loops!"
"Warning! Instrument 18 - Layer 2 is using Alternating loops!"
obviously those instruments must be looping samples, but I don't know what the layer stuff means, or technically what any of it is referring to (other than maybe you have to edit the DLS manually to specify loop points?)

I suspect there's no problem with the input file but DLS possibly doesn't support alternating loops by standard. Alternating loops, as the name suggest, work like this: start -> loop from loop point A to loop point B -> loop from B to A -> loop from A to B -> repeat until note off. Layers are just individual timbres (e.g. samples) combined to create a single sound/instrument.

Quote

and is there a simple free utility like ModPlug player or something that I can use for DLS and midi sequences? I don't actually do any of this stuff so I don't have programs at the ready

No idea. I tend to just use Google in these cases. I've previously used VSTs capable of playing instruments from DLS in conjunction with the converted MIDI loaded into REAPER. Again, all described in at least one of the previous threads I linked. Sorry, but I don't feel like either repeating myself any more or helping other people search for things.

This post has been edited by dsrb: 29 March 2013 - 12:20 PM

[Eric Wright]

s'all good, thanks for the specific replies here at least :P Times to dust off my google-fu, perhaps... or maybe it's enough for Skyler to figure the rest out lol