[GeneralAdmiralChipotle]

*Special note: the previous topic I began was shot down by Cinossu. I started off with a general discussion topic asking members which elements of the Sonic universe they would like to see in the next Super Smash Bros. release. He didn't like the subject, so he sent it to trash. I didn't know any better, and I humbly apologize. As such, I'm going to skip the small talk and jump straight to why I came to Sonic Retro in the first place. I'm very sorry, Cinossu; let this be my mulligan. You gave me a chance at membership, and I won't screw up again!

I'm beginning work on a Sonic fan game. I've laid out some conceptual groundwork, written vector-handling/transformation code based off of work from Comp Sci courses (vectors in R^2, NOT Vector from Knuckles Chaotix), and I've gathered some (but most certainly not all or even half) essential sprites and art. The game will be written in C++ using the Direct2D library. I'm looking for other interested people of all levels of experience who would like to collaborate on the project. THIS PROJECT WILL TAKE OVER 1000 PRODUCTIVE MAN-HOURS TO COMPLETE. This is where I need the help of my fellow Sonic loyalists. Cinossu- I'm extending the first personal invitation to you to be a project leader. Your experience manipulating level art makes you a go-to guy for insight, and you have been the leader of major projects, such as Sonic Megamix and your own STH: Extended Edition. If you don't want to, I fully understand and only ask that you point anyone you think might be interested in the right direction.

The first idea and only one I will not budge on is to replace "Game Over" with a Burning Hell Zone. What this means is that when you lose all your lives, you will have to progress through Burning Hell Zone to get back to the first act of the zone in which you left off. Burning Hell Zone is a difficult level that contains no rings and no enemies; just spikes and fire hazards. In Burning Hell Zone, you have unlimited lives, but you start from the beginning every time you die. Once you reach the end, you will find 3 1-up monitors and a special ring. The ring will teleport you back into the game; just be sure to snag the 3 1-ups for your second chance at life. I chose to implement such a zone to combat the problem of 'Game Over' being either too punishing (starting from the beginning is unfair) or way too lenient (starting from the start of the level where one left off).

The Story...
Sonic was out with Tails and Knuckles on a vacation in an attempt to get Knuckles to unwind, have fun, and relax. Knuckles was stubborn at first, refusing to engineer build a sandcastle with Tails or wind surf with Sonic. Eventually, Sonic and Tails managed to convince Knuckles to take a break from his reclusive ways and have fun for a change. Knuckles enjoyed the company of his best buddies for all of one hour when suddenly the troublesome ne'er-do-well, Dr. Robotnik flew into the scene. The insane doctor proclaimed the end of Knuckles and the gang at the hands of his robot army 100,000 strong led by his ultimate creation, Metal Knuckles Mk II and stationed in his new and improved and nearly complete Death Egg. Robotnik then flew off maniacally ecstatic, leaving behind a Tails doll strapped with dynamite. Knuckles and co. resolved to make Robotnik pay for ruining their vacation on North Island and set forth on another spectacular adventure.

Knuckles' Vacation

Each Zone will have 2 acts designed to be completed in 2 minutes by an experienced player.

-Sunkist Islet Zone
-Glimmering Caverns Zone
-Pinball Palace Zone *featuring a gumball machine-style boss battle
-Glacial Mountain Zone
-Sherwood Forest Zone *featuring Wood Zone art combined with original tiling
-Running River Zone *a 1-act transitional zone; it's a fun wakeboarding mini-game zone for collecting a lot of lives needed for later
-Temple Lake Zone
-Emerald Shrine Zone
-Speed Highway Zone *fan service level
-Funky Hill Zone (ft. music by Tee Lopes pending permission)
-Desert Rush Zone
-Construction Mayhem Zone
-Sky Chase Zone*an easy 1-act zone before the last huzzah
-Death Egg Zone
-Raging Reactor Zone *a 1 act battle with 4 brutal bosses in the core of the Death Egg's reactor, the Four Eggbosses of the Robocalypse
-Final Fight *a secret true final battle for those who collect all 7 emeralds

Characters...
-Sonic
-Tails *will have exclusive routes
-Knuckles *will have exclusive routes
-Mighty *unlockable by completing the game once
-Chaos *unlockable by completing the game without ever setting foot in Hell Zone and obtaining all 7 Chaos Emeralds
-Metal Sonic *unlockable by completing the game without ever setting foot in Hell Zone and clearing the game in less than 90:00; wasted lives count toward time

Modes...
-Main Game
-Time Trial
-Boss Attack
-Special Stage Attack *scores based on total rings collected, unlockable by collecting all 7 emeralds
-2-4p race *Mighty is available in this mode no matter what
-Badnik Bash *hi-score mode set on the final ledge of Wing Fortress Zone where the goal is to bounce off of the largest chain of badniks possible before falling to distant ground

BEHOLD! I have all my tiles for the first three zones; this is a mock-up of my brain child!
Pinball Palace Zone


I must stress how open to suggestion I am. If there is something you as a member of the team would like to scrap in favor of an original idea, it is fine by me! I'll save the implementation of special stages until a much later time in development when we have established a good working game. If you want to join the team, I will email the source code to you. I'm looking for serious project partners, so be prepared to invest serious time into the game if you join the team, and let me know what your needs are.

Again, if you want source code, send me a message requesting it, and give me an email address to send it to.

This post has been edited by GeneralAdmiralChipotle: 21 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

[TheKazeblade]

Doesn't sound bad, but you REALLY should make some progress and at least have some screenshots if not a gameplay video up before you post a topic about your game. Until then, it's really just lip-service. Proof of concept is always nice before starting a recruitment thread.

[Mike Arcade]

Love the concept of the game, but it's generally a rule to SHOW something before making a post like this, even a mock screenshot I believe would have helped, it just makes this topic all the more vulnerable for being locked and you in trouble, that's usually the case I'm just trying to help you out here.

Gotta say though, having a Hell Zone instead of a game over is very creative, and I like the character selection but I feel that you revealed WAY too much in the unlockable department, it looks like their aren't any more secrets left in you're game and that takes away some of the mystery and wonder.

The one thing I don't get is why is it called Kunckles' Vacation? I get it from a story perspective but otherwise how does it make sense, I mean Sonic and Tails are playable from the start, it would just be easier to call it Sonic's Vacation, how is it that Knuckles is the main character of this game? Is it because of Metal Knuckles? I dunno, but good luck on this project, it sounds very nice. But I seriously would recommend posting something immediately of you're game (Video, Screenshot, anything) if you want to save this topic.

This post has been edited by Mike Arcade: 21 February 2013 - 01:10 AM

[winterhell]

No screenshots or videos = no help from the community. Personally guarantee.

[GeneralAdmiralChipotle]

winterhell, on 21 February 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

No screenshots or videos = no help from the community. Personally guarantee.

I said I will make source code available to those who request it. If you send my a personal message with some way for me to mail it to you, I'll happily send the code. My problem with getting pic in is that I can't get them to upload directly from my PC. I have some pics here, just give me about 30min to consolidate some tiles onto one pic. Just be prepared for RETURN OF THE WRATH OF THE PINK TILES!

[ICEknight]

All I see is words words words.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 21 February 2013 - 10:14 AM

[GeneralAdmiralChipotle]

ICEknight, on 21 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

All I see is words words words.

Sorry, I just got some great news over the phone- I landed a summer internship working for Oracle. I had some some questions for the man who interviewed me on campus, and he told me what I can expect as well as what I need to do to be ready on the first day. Anyway, I'm putting some tiles into a mockup for you,and I will upload the standalone tiles, now. Sorry to bring in personal nonsense, I won't dillydally any longer.

By the way, I thought source code was the important thing in developing any project. On top of that, I'm given to understand most of you are work in the software industry or study computer science, so correct me if I was wrong to think source code is the real meat of the project and the substance you really want to see.I save level layouts and art for last because those are most subject to change. Focusing on design before development is like building a house on a crummy foundation. My apologies, I'm hard at work right now on a suitable mockup to give you guys a better conceptual framework.

[TheKazeblade]

GeneralAdmiralChipotle, on 21 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

ICEknight, on 21 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

All I see is words words words.

By the way, I thought source code was the important thing in developing any project. On top of that, I'm given to understand most of you are work in the software industry or study computer science, so correct me if I was wrong to think source code is the real meat of the project and the substance you really want to see.I save level layouts and art for last because those are most subject to change. Focusing on design before development is like building a house on a crummy foundation. My apologies, I'm hard at work right now on a suitable mockup to give you guys a better conceptual framework.

Yes, source code is important for the game, but screenshots and examples of actual progress are important for YOU. No one here knows you, you're new, and unproven. No one wants to throw in "1000 man hours" for someone who may or may not be a flake, trust me, more than one fan game has gone the way of the dodo for this reason. You need to prove to the people who have the technical knowledge that you're seeking that you can back what you're saying to prove you're worth investing your time in, otherwise you're just talking "wouldn't it be cool if it had THIS" which anyone can do.

Prove you know what you're talking about with actual examples of what you have so far, and people will consider helping out. Otherwise, no one will.

This post has been edited by TheKazeblade: 21 February 2013 - 12:05 PM

[GeneralAdmiralChipotle]

TheKazeblade, on 21 February 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

GeneralAdmiralChipotle, on 21 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

ICEknight, on 21 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

All I see is words words words.

By the way, I thought source code was the important thing in developing any project. On top of that, I'm given to understand most of you are work in the software industry or study computer science, so correct me if I was wrong to think source code is the real meat of the project and the substance you really want to see.I save level layouts and art for last because those are most subject to change. Focusing on design before development is like building a house on a crummy foundation. My apologies, I'm hard at work right now on a suitable mockup to give you guys a better conceptual framework.

Yes, source code is important for the game, but screenshots and examples of actual progress are important for YOU. No one here knows you, you're new, and unproven. No one wants to throw in "1000 man hours" for someone who may or may not be a flake, trust me, more than one fan game has gone the way of the dodo for this reason. You need to prove to the people who have the technical knowledge that you're seeking that you can back what you're saying to prove you're worth investing your time in, otherwise you're just talking "wouldn't it be cool if it had THIS" which anyone can do.

Prove you know what you're talking about with actual examples of what you have so far, and people will consider helping out. Otherwise, no one will.

I wanted to prove that by emailing you source code (nobody will message me with their email address so far). Nonetheless, I see your point. BEHOLD!!!


Pinball Palace Zone


This is a particularly unique zone in that you will progress from bottom to top rather than left to right. It will move fast, and there will be plenty of curved walls and loops from which to gain momentum. What I am showing you is the point 1/3 of the way through Act 1 at which you will first jump into the Pinball Machine. Bumpers are more an essential part of making progress and only rarely serve as a nuisance. This zone is also designed to contain ONLY RED SPRINGS, NO YELLOW SPRINGS so as to keep the the player cognizant of maintaining control yet make the level as "kinetic" as possible.

[dsrb]

Hey, the staff? You really need to take that well-established rule 'No idea threads' and, y'know, actually put it in the rules.

GeneralAdmiralChipotle, on 21 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

By the way, I thought source code was the important thing in developing any project.

The important thing is having something to show (apart from lots of identical pink squares). Threads asking for help very rarely take off here.

Quote

On top of that, I'm given to understand most of you are work in the software industry or study computer science

I doubt that. A significant proportion, maybe, but not "most".

[GeneralAdmiralChipotle]

dsrb, on 21 February 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Hey, the staff? You really need to take that well-established rule 'No idea threads' and, y'know, actually put it in the rules.

GeneralAdmiralChipotle, on 21 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

By the way, I thought source code was the important thing in developing any project.

The important thing is having something to show (apart from lots of identical pink squares). Threads asking for help very rarely take off here.

Quote

On top of that, I'm given to understand most of you are work in the software industry or study computer science

I doubt that. A significant proportion, maybe, but not "most".

You see, I clearly made a mock-up screenshot as I am supposed to. I left a lot of details, and I OFFERED YOU MY SOURCE CODE! Read ALL of what I say before you respond, and you might find something interesting or useful. Like I said, if you want to see something, send me a message containing your email address, and I will share the source code with you. For obvious reasons, posting hundreds of lines of source code as a pdf and showing that as a picture is stupid and will get me flamed at. I will happily share my code, but none of you will message me requests. SHOOT ME A REEQUEST WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS IF YOU WANT SOURCE CODE; I'm not a psychic, I don't know your email address. Otherwise, stop ignoring my offer and telling me I'm not showing anything. I've got hundreds of lines of vector operations and physics coding that I'm just itching to share.

By the way, for those who don't even know what source code is...

It's the most important part of the project, far more important than the art. It's the actual code that dictates how the program is executed. It's hundreds to hundreds of thousands of lines of code containing branches (conditionals), arithmetic operations, functions, data structures, variables, exceptions being handled, and items being retrieved from memory.

Now if you don't mind, I'd like to keep things pleasant in my topic. Ask me meaningful questions about the design, offer insight based on your game dev experience, tell me your level of interest in working with on this with me, or tell me what you would like to see. I'm sure you're all good people, but I had hopes for Sonic Retro when I decided to join, and so far, I've been disappointed. I'm trying to do something serious here, but the lack of focus and professionalism others have brought into this topic is disconcerting. The Roman forum from which internet forums are derived was a rendezvous point and a gathering place for intelligent discussion. Some may not like it, but this topic has some required reading; a couple hundred lines of physics code. You can't have intelligent discussion on Shakespeare if you won't read one of his plays.

This post has been edited by GeneralAdmiralChipotle: 21 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

[dsrb]

GeneralAdmiralChipotle, on 21 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I'm sure you're all good people, but I had hopes for Sonic Retro when I decided to join, and so far, I've been disappointed. I'm trying to do something serious here, but the lack of focus and professionalism others have brought into this topic is disconcerting. The Roman forum from which internet forums are derived was a rendezvous point and a gathering place for intelligent discussion.

Yep, insulting an entire forum worth of users, based upon the reluctance of a tiny minority of them to read uncompiled source code, will definitely win people over. Especially the reference to ancient history, which totally doesn't make it look like you're just trying to show off your knowledge of a barely relevant factoid and demonstrate how much more intelligent and professional you are.

Quote

You can't have intelligent discussion on Shakespeare if you won't read one of his plays.

A play is a finished product. Source code is not. You may well have hundreds of lines, but most people are interested not in code but in its end result.

I mean, I didn't intend to not "keep things pleasant in [your] topic", but let's apply equal expectations to both sides here, shall we? You're demanding that people read hundreds of lines of your code without seeing it in action, then calling them unfocussed and unprofessional when they don't jump up immediately and comply. Never mind that this isn't a strictly professional forum by any means. There are a lot of very technically minded folk here, sure, but there are even more people who just want to try out new games.

So that it doesn't seem like I'm just being a dick for its own sake: Perhaps your game would be great if it were implemented, but the people who'll read your code and jump into the project are a lot more of a minority than you seem to think. You need to meet people in the middle, provide more content and not slam everyone when no one begs for your code within the first ten hours or so.

[Overlord]

Aaaaaand I think we're done here. I'm going to be generous and not trash this - instead, I'm going to lock it. When you have something to show - and a list of lines of source code is not it, more screenshots or video - PM one of the staff and get us to unlock it so they can be posted. Thanks!