[Ultima]

So I've been playing Sonic 3 Complete just recently. Pretty cool hack, having loads of fun with it. It's brought up something that I've often wondered, however...

Why Sonic 2? Why, whenever Sonic is brought up in the mainstream, is Sonic 2 considered to be the epitome of the series when Sonic 3 and Knuckles is clearly a superior game in terms of level variety, bosses, character variation, scope, size and graphics?

Sonic 3 and Knuckles has always been the pinnacle of the series to me, as it's simply an enormous game with a huge amount of depth and I can't help but smile inanely while I play it again and again. The music is fantastic too - but everyone always goes on about Sonic 2 being the high point of the series.

So clue me in if you can. Why Sonic 2?

This post has been edited by Ultima: 16 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

[Guess Who]

Because Sonic 2 sold more copies and more people remember it.

[JaxTH]

Because it's better.

[Ultima]

Why did Sonic 3 sell so poorly? Even Sonic Adventure has more sales.

EDIT: Ah, never mind, Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 were both packaged with Megadrives/Genesises at some point (and Sonic Adventure obviously with the Dreamcast). So that's why.

This post has been edited by Ultima: 16 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

[dsrb]

I find Sonic 2 to be extremely overrated.

I also think that the most (potentially) interesting elements were left in the beta and never finished.

[burned at stake]

[Yeow]

^ I hear a lot people compare Sonic 2 to the other Genesis Sonic games in a more unfavorable light these days, so you're not alone.

I personally love Sonic 2 but I think Sonic 3&K is better.

This post has been edited by Zinos: 16 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

[RuRi]

Honestly ranking them is kinda stupid as they all have different strengths and weaknesses and it all comes down to preferance. I mean I like Sonic 1 for the style and music, Sonic 2 for the sense of speed and refinement and Sonic 3/K for the feeling of being on a grand adventure with a lot of dynamic moments.

[winterhell]

While comparing S3K next to Sonic 2 the former may look superior, it does not help the fact that it was released whole 2 years later, and having 32x/Saturn/PSX the same year probably didnt help much.

[JaredAFX]

Guess Who, on 16 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Because Sonic 2 sold more copies and more people remember it.

This. Until SomecallmeJohnny's recent "Sonic Marathon" where he reviewed the Adventure games, Heroes and Shadow, people called SA2 the best Sonic ever, bar none. This is probably because SA2B is the number ten best-selling GameCube game of all time, not to mention it was the first Sonic game not on a Sega console (ignoring Advance which came out on the same day as SA2B in Japan); it was the Nintendo kids' first Sonic experience. Now, we're seeing a lot of people who have taken off their nostalgia goggles and have realized that the game kind of sucks and is comparatively inferior to even the Genesis games. I can and will still fit some City Escape or Metal Harbor into my schedule, but that's just it: I only play Sonic's stages. Not the shooting levels, the treasure hunting stages or even Shadow's stages-just Sonic's.

Anyway, the sales figures are probably the reason. I can tell you that Sonic 2 is my favorite Genesis Sonic game because it's Sonic 1's simple progression with the Spin Dash. I enjoy 3&K, too, don't get me wrong, but when I feel like exploring a grand adventure, I'll play one of the Adventure games, you know? I'm spoiled, what can I say.

[qwertysonic]

Because sonic 3&K is 2 games... By themselves they don't have the right feel (almost as if they are incomplete ) If it had been released as one game, it probably would have been better remembered.

[Uberham]

JaredAFX, on 16 February 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Guess Who, on 16 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Because Sonic 2 sold more copies and more people remember it.

Until SomecallmeJohnny's recent "Sonic Marathon" where he reviewed the Adventure games, Heroes and Shadow, people called SA2 the best Sonic ever, bar none.

Ugh, just no.

[SonicGenesis89]

At the time a lot of people had Sonic 1 and 2 and not 3. Sonic 2 was packaged with the Sega Genesis and it's actually how I got the game as a kid. I think a lot of people remember and have a soft spot for Sonic 2 because it was their first Sonic game. You got to remember that in the early 90's Sega Games were 50 bucks each. So when Sonic 3 came out it was an expensive game and then you had to get Sonic and Knuckles to complete it. Not a lot of people were able to go out and buy it readily and especially both games to play the complete package. People also felt they needed to go back and play Sonic 1 and 2 first before playing 3. When I was little I used to rent Sonic 3 every week from my local Blockbuster store since we couldn't buy it and later on eventually I was able to get Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles. A lot of people felt as though Sonic 3 wasn't as good as 2 because of how short it was until Sonic and Knuckles came out. I honestly think it's wrong to compare the different classic games because they all have their own different feeling and style. Sonic 2 always gave me a special feeling I didn't get from 3 and then Sonic CD for example gave me a different feeling than the Megadrive games. They all had their own artistic style level design and graphically, their own individual music styles, and feel that differ from one another. It's obvious Sonic 3 and Knuckles is superior to Sonic 2 for a lot of reasons. When Sonic 3 came out they were able to make longer and bigger levels. They made it so when you get 50 rings you don't become Super Sonic automatically when you jump and they have a lot more boss fights and fun gimmicks to throw at you. I think people have a soft spot for 2 mainly because of it possibly being their first Sonic game like it was for me and maybe they have a fondness towards it's music, style, and gameplay which differs greatly from Sonic 3. I honestly love all the classic games equally and they all hold a special place in my heart.

[ICEknight]

Might have to do with:

-Sonic 3 "complete" was more than twice as expensive than Sonic 2.
-It was originally released incomplete at full price.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 16 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

[JaredAFX]

Uberham, on 16 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

JaredAFX, on 16 February 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Guess Who, on 16 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Because Sonic 2 sold more copies and more people remember it.

Until SomecallmeJohnny's recent "Sonic Marathon" where he reviewed the Adventure games, Heroes and Shadow, people called SA2 the best Sonic ever, bar none.

Ugh, just no.

Just no what? Just no that SomecallmeJohnny reviewed all of those games, or just no that I'm using that as a theory as to why more and more people are starting to express their dislikes with the Adventure games?

EDIT: Or just no that people call SA2 the best Sonic game?

This post has been edited by JaredAFX: 16 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

[jasonchrist]

I can cite several reasons why I personally love 2 more...

- Sonic 2's music completely and utterly rapes 3s. Sonic 2 music makes me smile like a fucking bulldog! 3s is simply nowhere as memorable, and it has a feeling of sounding more like Michael Jackson music (duh!) and James Bond music rather than say... fucking Sonic music. Mega props for the act 2 boss music, Lava Reef 1 and Sky Sanctuary though, and the competition mode music which to me sounds so much better than any zone music from the main game.

- Sonic 2 leaves me wanting more. Sonic 3 and Knuckles leaves me wanting considerably less. Which leads me onto my next point...

- Sonic 3 alone was a fantastic game in its own right, the Sonic and Knuckles half though was very dreary, drab, claustrophobic and in many places too fucking long and for me the worst of the 4 stand-alone games - which is why playing the whole Sonic 3 experience is quite jarring. I love the first half, but get rather bored in the Sonic and Knuckles half.

- Sonic 3s sprite rubs me the wrong way. With the clown feet and big foam fists, he looks too fucking silly.

- The whole going into space thing again which from then became a tired tradition. A little sick of it as a child, VERY sick of it now. I always thought as a child that Death Egg should have looked like a more detailed version of Sonic 2s - to satisfy the curiosity of fans wondering what a full DEZ would've looked like. From a story standpoint, I found it would've been better too "remember this place folks? you're back again, now it's time to destroy it for good!". Because they opted for a different Death Egg, it made the whole arc seem rather pointless.

- Bonus stages, when 20 something rings can potentially yield you multiple lives, when it's harder to lose lives than it is to gain them. Then we have a big fucking problem!

- A huge, epic adventure 3k may be... but it's just too fucking easy! I can't put my finger on why exactly, but I will say this. I got Sonic 1 and 2 for Christmas of 93, by May of 94 (when I got Sonic 3) I had yet to complete the first 2, despite playing them non stop since Christmas. With Sonic 3, I completed it one day after I got it for my birthday, and Sonic and Knuckles was completed when I got it on Christmas Day 94... before my parents had even got up!!! If a kid who sucked at Sonic 1 and 2 can nail it's sequel in a matter of days... imagine how boring it must be for him when he grows up to be a seasoned pro.

- Takashi Iizuka. Hate on Sonic 4 all you want - god knows I certainly do! - but the fucking malignant dick cancer of his influence that infected 2d Sonic started here. The slides and twisting waterways of hydrocity, the candy spirals and wind tunnels of carnival night and the snowboarding sequence of icecap. There's too many times in this game where you can sit back and watch things happen, luckily Iizuka wasn't in sole control of the game or it would have probably all been like this. In Sonic 1 and 2 you're in control of almost 100% of what happens on screen, which is how it fucking should be.



After reading all this, you could be forgiven for thinking that I hate Sonic 3 and Knuckles. I really don't, I love it to bits! It brought so much awesomeness to the table with Knuckles, the elemental shields, act 1 bosses and transitions and epic story scope, you can't fuck with that! It's just that there was just too many elements that worked better in the previous titles for me to consider 3k better.

This post has been edited by jasonchrist: 16 February 2013 - 07:01 PM