[David The Lurker]

How soon we all forget.

The way we originally got the names to Sonic's bandmates was from a little-known Japanese website called Sonic Dimensions. It doesn't exist anymore, but at the time it was one of the very few Sonic websites made by a fan from Japan. Heck, it probably still is, even though it hasn't been online in ages. Sharps, Mach and Max come from the site's list of characters in the series.

If you go to any of their profiles, there isn't much in there aside from explaining that they were meant to be in the sound test. Now, I know the question that would immediately be asked is how do we know these names are real and not just made up by the guy who wrote the site. Ignoring the fact that the rest of the site doesn't seem to be one to use fan conjecture, each profile for these three characters (through the use of Google Translate) mentioned "Beep! Megadrive" as the magazine he learned of their existence. Yes, the same publication where we not that long ago found screenshots of the earliest playable build of Sonic the Hedgehog. Not the same issue, of course, but still. So what it looks is that, at some point, the magazine used the name of those characters, assumingly in coverage of the development of the game, unless their review happened to speak of a sound test that was no longer part of the final product.

http://web.archive.o...rof/sharps.html - link to Sharp's profile, for those curious.

There, that should settle that one.

As for Madeline...I mean, Yuji Naka has already gone on record with stories that completely contradict her concerning Madonna and Sonic's Band and why they weren't in the game. I sincerely doubt some random American woman was the one who came up with the idea for Sonic, especially since Sega of America was so against the idea of a game staring a hedgehog in the first place.

[JaredAFX]

We know that the design for Sonic was chosen as the winner in a mini contest within Sega of Japan, right? Sonic was also redesigned by the American PR team to make him look more appealing to American audiences, correct? Then why is there so much confusion on the subject?

[Greg the Cat]

David The Lurker, on 31 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

As for Madeline...I mean, Yuji Naka has already gone on record with stories that completely contradict her concerning Madonna and Sonic's Band and why they weren't in the game. I sincerely doubt some random American woman was the one who came up with the idea for Sonic, especially since Sega of America was so against the idea of a game staring a hedgehog in the first place.

Entertaining the notion, dear David. It's just kind of an interesting "what if".

[Mercury]

David The Lurker, on 31 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

How soon we all forget.

The way we originally got the names to Sonic's bandmates was from a little-known Japanese website called Sonic Dimensions. It doesn't exist anymore, but at the time it was one of the very few Sonic websites made by a fan from Japan. Heck, it probably still is, even though it hasn't been online in ages. Sharps, Mach and Max come from the site's list of characters in the series.

If you go to any of their profiles, there isn't much in there aside from explaining that they were meant to be in the sound test. Now, I know the question that would immediately be asked is how do we know these names are real and not just made up by the guy who wrote the site. Ignoring the fact that the rest of the site doesn't seem to be one to use fan conjecture, each profile for these three characters (through the use of Google Translate) mentioned "Beep! Megadrive" as the magazine he learned of their existence. Yes, the same publication where we not that long ago found screenshots of the earliest playable build of Sonic the Hedgehog. Not the same issue, of course, but still. So what it looks is that, at some point, the magazine used the name of those characters, assumingly in coverage of the development of the game, unless their review happened to speak of a sound test that was no longer part of the final product.

http://web.archive.o...rof/sharps.html - link to Sharp's profile, for those curious.

There, that should settle that one.

Well, it's a step closer, anyway. Thanks for the info.

I guess it boils down to needing to track down Beep! Megadrive issues, as usual.

[ICEknight]

David The Lurker, on 31 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I sincerely doubt some random American woman was the one who came up with the idea for Sonic

Wait wait, the quote mentions the contest was held within the workers at Sega of Japan, not in America.

[David The Lurker]

ICEknight, on 01 February 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

David The Lurker, on 31 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I sincerely doubt some random American woman was the one who came up with the idea for Sonic

Wait wait, the quote mentions the contest was held within the workers at Sega of Japan, not in America.

Oh, so it does. Huh. I guess I got confused because it immediately goes into how Madeline was looking at the picture of Sonic and Madonna...that's where my confusion came from. That's what happens when you explain the creation of Sonic in a paragraph.

It still doesn't make much sense though, because nowhere else is this mysterious woman mentioned. Unless she told Ohshima "I like Hedgehogs" and he started sketching. The evolution of Sonic has always been credited to Ohshima, including those early napkin sketches, which is why I always seemed to dismiss this. Of course, I also read it wrong, so...hmm. I don't know. It would be different if someone else ever told this story. Not even Madeline Schroeder mentioned that a girl helped come up with Sonic. And who would be the pastel animal that is mentioned? The wolf, the bulldog? I don't know.

[Mercury]

I should abstain from speculation, but what the hell.

Here we have a comparison between Ohshima's and Yamaguchi's hedgehog concept sketches, and Ohshima's was the basis for Sonic. It's entirely possible that it wasn't as simple as Contest -> Ohshima's hedgehog wins, but more like Contest -> Hedgehog idea chosen -> Ohshima's particular hedgehog design chosen from many.

The precise timeline, and the details of who came up with what and how are still maddeningly vague.

[David The Lurker]

Mercury, on 01 February 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

I should abstain from speculation, but what the hell.

Here we have a comparison between Ohshima's and Yamaguchi's hedgehog concept sketches, and Ohshima's was the basis for Sonic. It's entirely possible that it wasn't as simple as Contest -> Ohshima's hedgehog wins, but more like Contest -> Hedgehog idea chosen -> Ohshima's particular hedgehog design chosen from many.

The precise timeline, and the details of who came up with what and how are still maddeningly vague.

It certainly doesn't help that the brand spanking new History Of Sonic The Hedgehog makes the claim that it wasn't Sonic who won that contest, but the rabbit character, and that Sonic Team changed it to Sonic after the fact. Boy, isn't it awesome that we have such a concise and accurate account on the creation of the most famous hedgehog in the world?! I don't even know how the story of Sonic Team pitching Sonic to the higher ups complete with Sonic plush fits into all of this...

But I do have one question to you. Where did you get that Yamaguchi made any of those sketches? I know it's not mentioned on the page you linked, and I have never heard him being involved in the first game in any respect. I know he created Tails, but...yeah. Are you talking about that warrior-like hedgehog belonging to Yamaguchi?

[ICEknight]

David The Lurker, on 01 February 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

It certainly doesn't help that the brand spanking new History Of Sonic The Hedgehog makes the claim that it wasn't Sonic who won that contest, but the rabbit character, and that Sonic Team changed it to Sonic

Jesus christ, can't they even copypaste websites properly?


EDIT: By the way, I've been checking the link Mercury posted and it's really worrying to see how it's never mentioned where any of the scans and related pics come from... Many of us do know the origin of most of them, but that's knowledge that's going to be lost forever if it's not reflected where all this material is presented.


Same goes for the art archives.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 02 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

[Mercury]

David The Lurker, on 01 February 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

But I do have one question to you. Where did you get that Yamaguchi made any of those sketches? I know it's not mentioned on the page you linked, and I have never heard him being involved in the first game in any respect. I know he created Tails, but...yeah. Are you talking about that warrior-like hedgehog belonging to Yamaguchi?

Yes, this image:

because of this text: 山口泰史氏... etc

It translates to "Yamaguchi Yasushi-shi's rough sketch". "Shi" is an honorific (I see Sega use it for their artists a lot, like in the Phantasy Star Compendium).

(The warrior hedgehog is also consistent with Yamaguchi's style.)

The second text says "Ohshima Naoto-shi's rough sketch".

Yamaguchi has been a member of Sonic team since the late eighties, being involved with both Phantasy Star games. I guess he had a competing Sonic design. I can see why Ohshima's was picked; it's simpler to work with.

The images are from the Sega History of Sonic video tape:



Which I would dearly love to see translated.

[ICEknight]

Mercury, on 01 February 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Here we have a comparison between Ohshima's and Yamaguchi's hedgehog concept sketches, and Ohshima's was the basis for Sonic. It's entirely possible that it wasn't as simple as Contest -> Ohshima's hedgehog wins, but more like Contest -> Hedgehog idea chosen -> Ohshima's particular hedgehog design chosen from many.

And the same might have been true for the other winning idea (the pastel thing Al Nilsen mentioned).

Then, after all that process, both resulting designs would have been the ones shown at SEGA of America for the final decision... Makes sense, but of course we shouldn't jump into conclusions until we get official confirmation.

[David The Lurker]

Hey how about someone translates this maybe it has the names of the band members

 sonic_team_p1.jpg (2.13MB)
Number of downloads: 108

oh maybe someone should translate these too

 sonic_team_p2.jpg (1.73MB)
Number of downloads: 222  sonic_trivia_p1_1.jpg (1.85MB)
Number of downloads: 88  sonic_trivia_p1_2.jpg (1.95MB)
Number of downloads: 68  sonic_trivia_p2_1.jpg (458.6K)
Number of downloads: 69  sonic_trivia_p2_2.jpg (1.9MB)
Number of downloads: 53

[Mercury]

David The Lurker, on 03 February 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hey how about someone translates this maybe it has the names of the band members

sonic_team_p1.jpg

oh maybe someone should translate these too

sonic_team_p2.jpg sonic_trivia_p1_1.jpg sonic_trivia_p1_2.jpg sonic_trivia_p2_1.jpg sonic_trivia_p2_2.jpg

WHAT ARE THESE PAGES FROM? 8O

That picture with the gargoyle head is new to me! These are awesome!

And yes, all the band member names are listed there.

[David The Lurker]

The pictures are from the Sonic Jam strategy guide, the same place that fancy commentary comes from on the wiki for the Mega Drive levels. As far as I know, we don't have a full translation. Heck, I'm not sure if we have scans of the whole thing. It isn't super rare, either.

And yeah, that Gargoyle image isn't on the wiki, is it? The scans for that style of concept art came from that Material Collection, which I think we've assumed was all of it. But here is another that saw print in 1997, and we don't even have a thumbnail on it. Makes you wonder if even more was drawn that looks like that. If so, I would love to see it!

Also, I was having a discussion with someone about that level concept art, and they were saying they think it might have been Yasuhara who drew it, citing how Sonic looks in those action shots and comparing to how Sonic looks in other concept art, like for Mushroom Hill. And I mean, I suppose it's possible? Since Yasuhara was the one who worked on the levels. I had just assumed it was Ohshima who drew them, since the concept art for the characters and such was definitely in his hand.

[ICEknight]

Mercury, on 04 February 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

David The Lurker, on 03 February 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hey how about someone translates this maybe it has the names of the band members

sonic_team_p1.jpg

oh maybe someone should translate these too

sonic_team_p2.jpg sonic_trivia_p1_1.jpg sonic_trivia_p1_2.jpg sonic_trivia_p2_1.jpg sonic_trivia_p2_2.jpg

WHAT ARE THESE PAGES FROM? 8O

That picture with the gargoyle head is new to me! These are awesome!

And yes, all the band member names are listed there.

Also, the Sonic Band text mentions the BEEP! Mega Drive magazine, so it might still be interesting to track down the issue with them.