[mentski]

Super Napalm, on 07 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I still don't totally understand why they pulled the fanmade Streets of Rage Remake last year (even though it's still easily available in obvious places). Especially considering Sega have been mostly a-ok with the Sonic fangaming/hacking community basically since it began back in the '90s

It's a horrible double standard based on the profitability of both franchises..

Sonic has a huge fanbase, and Sega are regularly making new games every year that people happily buy. The fangame scene is a drop in the ocean, and doesn't harm the Sonic franchise's sales figures.

Streets of Rage has a much smaller fanbase, and the only games in existence are SoR 1, 2 & 3 - So the only money Sega make off the SoR name is emulated re-releases, and Bomberlink took those 3 games, and combined and improved on them...

I guess Sega saw as a threat to whatever re-releases they were planning at the time (For example, SoR 2 came out for iOS the week after SoRR's release).

[Dude]

mentski, on 08 December 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Super Napalm, on 07 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I still don't totally understand why they pulled the fanmade Streets of Rage Remake last year (even though it's still easily available in obvious places). Especially considering Sega have been mostly a-ok with the Sonic fangaming/hacking community basically since it began back in the '90s

It's a horrible double standard based on the profitability of both franchises..

Sonic has a huge fanbase, and Sega are regularly making new games every year that people happily buy. The fangame scene is a drop in the ocean, and doesn't harm the Sonic franchise's sales figures.

I'm not so sure about that - the amount of Sonic fans that engage in 'IP violations' is pretty huge. If sega were to start taking down fangames, mods, hacks, fan-art, etc. they would have a PR nightmare on their hands, because lots of people would cry out about it - and loudly. The rest of your comment seems pretty much spot on though, regardless of how huge the sonic 'fan content' efforts are, they don't affect sales at all. In fact one could argue that the recent modding trend has even caused sega to gain sales (although not much), since you have to own the original game to use the new content.

This post has been edited by Dude: 08 December 2012 - 05:26 AM

[Espyo]

Shortly after I clicked the topic, I was reminded of the whole SoR Remake ordeal... Dammit SEGA.
As for the new game... I think it's pretty unanimous they aren't taking the right direction. Now if only we could somehow be heard.

[TimmiT]

Espyo, on 08 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

As for the new game... I think it's pretty unanimous they aren't taking the right direction. Now if only we could somehow be heard.

We don't need to be heard, this was a game pitched by Ruffian Games that Sega didn't go with. Which means that either Sega thought it didn't look like it was headed in the right direction or that they aren't interested in a new Streets of Rage game at the moment.

Also, at the moment if there'll be a new Streets of Rage game, it'll be a low budget downloadable title. I don't think Sega can afford taking chances with a big budget title for a niche audience.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

I've just thought of a way to make SEGA and the fans happy. I think I should pitch it in an email to them and gain a percentage from their sales:

Make a 2D style Streets of Rage but with 3D assets (like Generation's classic levels). When you pause the game, it then gives you the ability to control a floating free camera to look around the environment and zoom in and out. It lets you see the punches you've made make contact with the enemies, see the sweat pouring from Adam's forehead and look in to the windows of the shops behind and generally view character models and stop-frame animations, kinda like Theater mode in Call of Duty:



Therefore, the game runs in 2D, but you get the 3D elements developers are obviously so desperate for.

Also, it makes perfect sense- I often pause the game to get a still of the action in 2 player. Sometimes I do some really cool moved with Blaze which just look epic in a still. Yeah, I'm a saddo, bite me.

[NiktheGreek]

Just sayin'.

Also, the other notable 3D beat-'em-up series, which criminally failed to get a home release until it was long past relevance, is Spikeout.

[Uberham]

FFS failed because it was shit.

[TimmiT]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 08 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I've just thought of a way to make SEGA and the fans happy. I think I should pitch it in an email to them and gain a percentage from their sales:

Make a 2D style Streets of Rage but with 3D assets (like Generation's classic levels). When you pause the game, it then gives you the ability to control a floating free camera to look around the environment and zoom in and out. It lets you see the punches you've made make contact with the enemies, see the sweat pouring from Adam's forehead and look in to the windows of the shops behind and generally view character models and stop-frame animations, kinda like Theater mode in Call of Duty:



Therefore, the game runs in 2D, but you get the 3D elements developers are obviously so desperate for.

Also, it makes perfect sense- I often pause the game to get a still of the action in 2 player. Sometimes I do some really cool moved with Blaze which just look epic in a still. Yeah, I'm a saddo, bite me.

Part of the point of three dimensions in a videogame is that there are more possibilities to what you can do, what you are describing would only kinda look cool visually and cause a couple of fun Youtube videos of people messing around with it. For a lot of people it would also only be fun to mess around with for 10 minutes at most. Besides that, things like sweat pouring from Adam's forehead and the inside of the shops would probably look like crap from close-by. Especially if the game would be 60fps.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

Well what I was suggesting would be that the series does not need 3D gameplay, but if they are obviously so desperate to show 3D off then they could add that feature just for the fun of it. Seriously though, why is anyone interested in a 3D Streets of Rage? For the novelty?

Then the problems are solved with my suggestion whislt retaining the same style from the old games.

[Aesculapius Piranha]

From the way y'all are talking it sounds like you don't think a proper beat em up can be made in 3D. I think it has well been proven by now that is not the case.

To be clear I liked the way this early footage looked. The fighting system didn't look polished but it did look like it had potential. My biggest worry is that it would do nothing to advance 3D beat em ups and just be a kind of so-so title, as it didn't look like anything special to play in that early stage. That said, that video had MAJOR style points. If they had polished up the fighting a lot it could have been something special.

That said, yeah I think games and gamers are at the point where anything that hasn't already made the "transition" to 3D we've all been looking at from the late 90s til now-ish it really doesn't have to. 3D games are no longer an innovation. The next graphical frontier is essentially scaling the uncanny valley, and I'm not sure how much games themselves will benefit from that. It's totally okay to go back to putting quality effort into 2D games now, because developers have nothing to prove when it comes to graphics. Anyone who thinks they do is just buying into some hype or another.

[TimmiT]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 10 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Well what I was suggesting would be that the series does not need 3D gameplay, but if they are obviously so desperate to show 3D off then they could add that feature just for the fun of it. Seriously though, why is anyone interested in a 3D Streets of Rage? For the novelty?

Then the problems are solved with my suggestion whislt retaining the same style from the old games.

People are interested in a 3D Streets of Rage because of the possibilities the game in three dimensions would bring. If we'd get another 2D Streets of Rage with 3D assets, it'd be just that. If you want just more of the same game you played as a kid except with more modern graphics, fine, but I much rather have something new. To me this kind of game was neat the first couple of times it was done, but now we have tons of these kinds of games where 90% of the ideas are taken from older games. We've had the New Super Mario Bros games, Sonic 4, Mega Man 9 and 10, Double Dragon Neon, Bionic Commando Rearmed 2, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Scott Pilgrim vs. The World. Developers have given up on trying to evolve their franchises and are instead just repackaging their old ideas because people will eat that shit up.

So no, the problems wouldn't be solved with your suggestion.

Aesculapius Piranha, on 10 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

From the way y'all are talking it sounds like you don't think a proper beat em up can be made in 3D. I think it has well been proven by now that is not the case.

This. If the majority of the games that tried to make a 3D beat-em-up failed it doesn't mean it's impossible to do it right. People would say the same about 3D platformers if most 3D platformers were like Bubsy 3D.

Especially this gen combat in videogames has been improved heavily becaus now developers look at Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City for inspiration, games like Sleeping Dogs and Assassin's Creed 3 now have combat styles similar to those games. There's also of course games like God Hand, the Devil May Cry games, Bayonetta and The Warriors, all 3D beat em ups praised by lots of people.

[Dan Lioneye]

I really think this could be made to work. I really liked what I saw, but I agree with the general opinion of the game looking to dark and miserable.
Lose the rain, and make it look like this and it will WIN:



Also:

There shouldn't be big open spaces to fight in like in the demo.

Narrow streets and alleys. This is critical for it to play well. More close quarters, more intense, imagine the button mashing when taking on a hoard of goons like in the SoR2 box art!

This makes it play like the classics by creating a "resticted" fighting area that they had.

And: LIFE BARS!

This post has been edited by Dan Lioneye: 18 January 2013 - 03:24 AM

[egel]

^ this.

Also those fat guys as seen below must be present:



I LOVE their sneaky, laughing sound.

[Caniad Bach]

I'd be perfectly happy with the combat from Sleeping Dogs in a neon eighties environment, with co op.

[Foxeh]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 08 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Make a 2D style Streets of Rage but with 3D assets (like Generation's classic levels).

kinda feeling this image right now...


But all in all, I really believe it can be done well in 3D if someone puts the time in for it.
Perhaps it's because we've been exposed to so many bad 3d sequals/revivals (altered beast, bomberman, etc.)

Maybe I have my nostalgia goggles on a little too tight, but I think what goes wrong is them trying to change TOO MUCH of what made the game so good. I mean look at how games go into direct immediate sequals, it's usually a few changes, but never too much to stray away from what made the predecessor so well.

Streets of rage (simple walk around beat em up with hold technology!)
Streets of rage 2 (replaced the police with a SPECIAL button :o as well as updated graphics)
Streets of Rage 3 (added extra specials as rewards for staying alive through levels, as well as more characters and more animations... also.. RUNNING!!)

of course Final Fight 1-3 went somewhat about the same direction slightly differently
then streetwise came and changed just about everything (not to mention the time gap wasn't friendly)
plenty of other examples but I'll leave it at that.


I guess im trying to say, too much change suddenly can be either really bad or really good. (few cases when it's good)


and I plan to do it good...