[Endri]

Falk, on 10 September 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

But Endri was offering to tweak within MMF2, or am I misreading?

You are correct. Although I'd be so tempted to move it to something better and portable, because I find it hard to believe that some of the things that want to improve in this game are even possible within MMF2 alone.

I'd hate to see this game fall victim to any of the things that 99% of the fan games do (or don't, thereof), which includes, among many things, lack of proper audio management (or any audio management at all), lack of a "technology-pushing" Special Stage (because the game making suit doesn't allow, or because the creator simply doesn't know how to implement their idea), use of a "Power Sneakers" track out of sheer convenience, because the creator don't know how to rise the tempo without also raising the pitch of the music, innacurate Tails AI, awful physics.

That being said, I'm almost certain that the current Special Stage in XG is probably some 2D shit and probably sucks (not really suck, what I mean is that it probably isn't as good as it could be, if you know what I mean).

[Black Squirrel]

There hasn't been a good special stage in official Sonic games in years - they're usually half-arsed variants on the tube (aka coming up with ideas is really hard).

Lower your expectations?

[Falk]

Gonna have to say I've never found any realtime speedup convincing but I'm pretty anal about music.

(My ideal solution would be to have two versions of a track, one with the BPM up by 25%, and then have the audio engine track beats via BPM info and swap to/from on a beat, perserving the number of beats from the start of the song when you activate/deactivate the sneakers powerup)

[Endri]

20,2814%, if we really want to be that accurate! (the Genesis games up the tempo by this amount)

Realtime sounds good enough to me; the DirectX's XAudio2 API increments sample position by 0x0400. I just have to change it to 0x04cf. The audio information loss is negligible.

However, incidentally, this method you described is exactly what my audio driver do; I have two tracks (one rendered at its regular BPM and another rendered with BPM × 1.202814), and (I don't have to keep track of anything because XAudio2 already does that internally) I change between them tracks on the fly.

[Falk]

Yeah, when I mocked up that solution in Wwise just for the heck of it, the jump was still noticable, especially around long percussion samples like cymbals. Still a much better solution than a sped-up track. My solution solution was to then have the sped up version have a slightly different arrangement (usually just a little more percussion) so that the change was more intentional/pronounced and then have the engine only swap them on the next beat which masks the transition better too.

Of course, if we're talking about YM2612 tones then the material itself is a lot more forgiving to manipulation without sounding artifacty.

(soz4tangent)

[Hez]

Endri, on 10 September 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Falk, on 10 September 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

But Endri was offering to tweak within MMF2, or am I misreading?

You are correct. Although I'd be so tempted to move it to something better and portable, because I find it hard to believe that some of the things that want to improve in this game are even possible within MMF2 alone.

I'd hate to see this game fall victim to any of the things that 99% of the fan games do (or don't, thereof), which includes, among many things, lack of proper audio management (or any audio management at all), lack of a "technology-pushing" Special Stage (because the game making suit doesn't allow, or because the creator simply doesn't know how to implement their idea), use of a "Power Sneakers" track out of sheer convenience, because the creator don't know how to rise the tempo without also raising the pitch of the music, innacurate Tails AI, awful physics.

That being said, I'm almost certain that the current Special Stage in XG is probably some 2D shit and probably sucks (not really suck, what I mean is that it probably isn't as good as it could be, if you know what I mean).

I quite like the 2d special stages in Sonic Chaos (I think it was Chaos). I don't think it matters how its made, as long as its fun and playable.

[Endri]

I don't mind Special Stages being 2D or being a half-pipe variant. I do mind it, however, being at the same time, both a bad 2D and a bad half-pipe variant.

Now, I don't find the concept itself bad, I find its implementation bad. Here's a much better approach.

The thing I have with Special Stages is that they always tried to stretch the technology during the Genesis era: rotating maze, "Mode 7", 3D race, 3D puzzle, 3D fully polygonal tube/stage. Special Stages should at least strive to go beyond some limitations.

[Felik]

Or you could stop being so pretentious and simply contact him yourself. It'd take 5 times less time to make an AIM account and contact him instead of sitting here and bitching about sonic games bot official and fanmade not meeting your expectations.

[Chimera]

Was that honestly necessary? He's critiquing someone's work, as in saying whats wrong with it and how to improve it. That's a GOOD thing. People do that on threads all the time, and his points are accurate. The perspective on XG's special stages is poorly implemented and makes everything look like it pops out from the center and moves to the sides, which just feels wrong and distracting.

I take it your a fan of XG, but if someone says "this doesn't work and here's my take on how to fix it" the mature thing to do, if you disagree, is state that and how you feel it DOES work. What you don't do is go "hey fuck you man."

[Felik]

You probably took my post out of context. At no point did I say it's wrong to criticize one's work.

Endri, on 08 September 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

I just heard about this; I've been out of Retro and the scene for years because of NDA related things, but it's great to see that this project is finally going to be a thing!

However, I'm disappointed that it's clearly back to its MMF2 origins (the physics, the camera, everything gives it away). I would absolutely love to help shape this to be a better final product, but, it seems that the project has come a long way and is already near completion, and I doubt that Joe Waters would want to have to move everything over to a new something... else.

Yet, here, I'll still offer my services to polish the system/programming stuff that are in dire need of polishing, namely the physics and the camera, to make them the most accurately possible to a Genesis games (I'm anal when it comes to accuracy). Well, as much accurate as MMF allows me to make it, anyways; I don't mess with/never used any of these game making suits, so I don't know how much freedom you are allowed with them. And I usually never ever offer myself to do any non-comercial projects; I'm already occupied with professional game project contracts. So my offer is kind of a big deal, actually.

I mean, a game that is sort of like the spiritual sucessor of the Genesis trilogy? It must at least play like the originals, I am right? As even Knuckles' Chaotix—which is the de facto sequel of Sonic & Knuckles—plays like the originals (up to a certain point).

Tell him to hit me up if interested.

I was referring to all of his posts including this one rather than to only the last one.

This post has been edited by Felik: 11 September 2014 - 09:58 AM

[Hez]

Felik, on 11 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

Or you could stop being so pretentious and simply contact him yourself. It'd take 5 times less time to make an AIM account and contact him instead of sitting here and bitching about sonic games bot official and fanmade not meeting your expectations.

Wait, YOU are telling him to quit bitching about a fan-game and to contact him? Hypocrite much?

While on topic, I agree with Endri on making whatever you choose the special stage be, to be at least playable. I'd take an amazing 2D special stage over a mediocre 3D stage any-day.

This post has been edited by Hez: 11 September 2014 - 10:08 AM

[winterhell]

That video of the XG special stage is stressful to watch, let alone to play. You wait 90% of the time, then you got a small window when the stuff pops and you have to react. In the 90s games the stages were better paced, even Sonic 3D Mega Drive's.

[Felik]

Hez, on 11 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Felik, on 11 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

Or you could stop being so pretentious and simply contact him yourself. It'd take 5 times less time to make an AIM account and contact him instead of sitting here and bitching about sonic games bot official and fanmade not meeting your expectations.

Wait, YOU are telling him to quit bitching about a fan-game and to contact him? Hypocrite much?

While on topic, I agree with Endri on making whatever you choose the special stage be, to be at least playable. I'd take an amazing 2D special stage over a mediocre 3D stage any-day.

Why exactly do you call me a hypocrite? I don't see where you are coming.

[Endri]

Felik, on 11 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

Or you could stop being so pretentious and simply contact him yourself. It'd take 5 times less time to make an AIM account and contact him instead of sitting here and bitching about sonic games bot official and fanmade not meeting your expectations.

I'm willing to aid him make his fan game better, but I'm not desperate to impose my whims on the game, nor I have the time to, the point of having to create accounts in other forums or whatever. All I'm saying is that if he wants to improve his fan game, I know how to, I'm willing to do so, and I will do it, if he so wish; the offer is placed. But the interest to make his own fan game better must come from no one other than himself, and I can be found in all those media I already use. While that doesn't happen, I resume my schedule working on actual games.

About "bitching about sonic games bot[sic] official and fanmade not meeting your expectations", there was no bitching. And about official games, uh, sorry for Sonic Boom not being good enough for me? But then again I never "bitched" about it either (just said it was bad, and handwaved its existence). I think the person being pretentious here is you.

Hez, on 11 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

While on topic, I agree with Endri on making whatever you choose the special stage be, to be at least playable. I'd take an amazing 2D special stage over a mediocre 3D stage any-day.

Incidentally, yours are examples of great Special Stages.

This post has been edited by Endri: 11 September 2014 - 02:08 PM

[LordOfSquad]

Does he even post around here?