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Sonic 3 Adventure

#31 User is offline 8-Bit Dragon 

Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:37 PM

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View PostAzu, on 04 July 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

You can stream line textures. In fact, if you use TGAs and export them as FBX, you can import them straight into UDk and it will pickup the textures. Also, you don't need collision for most object see as UDK supports Per Poly Collision. I'm not sure if BlitzSonic has that. The only thing I image is a turn off is learning Uscript. UDK's editor isn't hard to learn once you get the hang of it. However, it's your game. You can use any engine you want. :D

I'll look into it. The tutorial I found that dealt with fbx was for 'static objects', which I assume are objects that do not move, or objects that do not animate. The other thing I thought was sort of :specialed: was that you have to convert your mesh to tris before exporting. I thought this was kind of unusual for such an advanced engine. I thought for sure UDK would support quads, or convert within the engine. I know its a great engine, but I just can't get past some of these quirks.

Anyways, here are some updates:
The Sonic 3 hud is nearly finished, and I managed to get the tree exported. The stage seen here is a test stage I'll include with the release of the main engine.
Posted Image

The light map didn't look right, so I removed it. I'll probably redo it, but the tree seems to look okay even without it.
Posted Image

As you can see in the screenshot, Sonic follows the line of rings as expected. I just gotta work on camera effects, and flip the normals of the exterior.
Posted Image

Finally, chaos drives for fun. The glow effect will be in shortly, I still have to do their texture! They behave as you expect, shooting up and gently floating down when they spawn. The display also works exactly as it does in SA2.
Posted Image

#32 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:41 PM

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This looks really, really good. I like the HUD a lot, and the only thing out of all of your pictures that really stands out and seems like it could be improved is the little photo of Sonic on the Lives counter on the bottom-left corner. Other than that, I honestly can't wait to play it!

On an different note, my family went swimming a few days ago, and I found some hiking trails that followed the edge of the river. I honestly wish I had a camera with me, because the way it looked just looking down the trail with the trees growing on both sides and coming together overhead looked like an awesome approach to take towards the Angel Island Zone.

#33 User is offline P3DR0 

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

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Those screens looks awesome, man. Good stuff.

Quote

I'll look into it. The tutorial I found that dealt with fbx was for 'static objects', which I assume are objects that do not move, or objects that do not animate. The other thing I thought was sort of :specialed: was that you have to convert your mesh to tris before exporting. I thought this was kind of unusual for such an advanced engine. I thought for sure UDK would support quads, or convert within the engine. I know its a great engine, but I just can't get past some of these quirks.
Static Meshes are everything that isn't an actor (Like Sonic, Rings, etc) or BSP meshes (Cheaper geometry already into UDK so you don't have to model every single thing. They can be converted to KActors at anytime which can give them physics or movement, for example.
Also, I'm not sure but I believe that UDK accepts quads.

I think that you should always uses whatever makes you confortable with and only that. But I have to admit that I kinda feel bad seeing all this work you're puting into it, wasted in a old engine like that. That don't suport real lights, normal maps and seems so... Primitive, I dunno. But no presure, you should always use what makes you confortable with, in the end, that's what matters, right?

#34 User is offline Azu 

Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:37 AM

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I believe quads are triangulated when imported anyways.
This post has been edited by Azu: 12 July 2012 - 12:37 AM

#35 User is offline 8-Bit Dragon 

Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:37 PM

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SAGE 2012 is upon us, and BlitzSonic Freerunner engine is now available for download! You can find it at the Sonic Worldrunner forums in the announcements, or at the BlitzSonic Freerunner Engine SAGE booth. Questions and bug reports are welcome, as I'm trying to get this engine's source organized so that the engine will work as a great base from which to make better mods and to build the Sonic 3 Adventure game.

Another thing I wanted to bring up was the name. Apparently the name is a little too close to Sonic Adventure 3. I chose the name "Sonic 3 Adventure" because it describes the game nicely - its Sonic 3, 'adventureized', but it may cause some confusion. So if there are any suggestions for a name change they are certainly welcome.

#36 User is offline Hitaxas 

Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:47 PM

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Seems like sageexpo.org is down. BTW, game looks pretty nice. :)

#37 User is offline Impish 

Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

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View Post8-Bit Dragon, on 06 August 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

SAGE 2012 is upon us, and BlitzSonic Freerunner engine is now available for download! You can find it at the Sonic Worldrunner forums in the announcements, or at the BlitzSonic Freerunner Engine SAGE booth. Questions and bug reports are welcome, as I'm trying to get this engine's source organized so that the engine will work as a great base from which to make better mods and to build the Sonic 3 Adventure game.

Another thing I wanted to bring up was the name. Apparently the name is a little too close to Sonic Adventure 3. I chose the name "Sonic 3 Adventure" because it describes the game nicely - its Sonic 3, 'adventureized', but it may cause some confusion. So if there are any suggestions for a name change they are certainly welcome.

S3K Adventure. Doesn't matter If you aren't planning to do the "and Knuckles" part, but it keeps it separate while still getting you meaning across. Either that or "Sonic the Third: Adventure!" but that sounds ridiculous (pick that one).
This post has been edited by Impish: 06 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

#38 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:41 AM

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I played this one, and had mixed expectations. For one thing, I loved the idea to everything you were doing. The only big issue I had was the fact that you were using the BlitzSonic engine to do it. True, it's the only 3D engine other than SRB2 that my pathetic little laptop can run properly, but the physics and controls were so off that I found nearly anything I played utterly uncontrollable. Even looking on YouTube, I found that plenty of other people seemed to have the same problems I had, even resorting on a disturbing frequency to a flight cheat to repeatedly put Sonic back on the level, and yet nobody seemed to mention it. It had just seemed to become an accepted problem with the engine itself that nobody seemed to want to bother with fixing.

I'm ecstatic to say that you seem to have fixed all of the problems I had with BlitzSonic entirely. I played through both test levels, and actually enjoyed the controls and was able to have a good time. All the previous levels I had tried to play before left me deleting them within ten minutes of starting them up, but I played though your little playgrounds repeatedly, enjoying all the little aspects that I wasn't able to tolerate before. I really love what you've done, and I can't wait until you update with some actual levels. I'd like to see what kinds of level design you can come up with now that you have an enjoyable, functioning engine that works the way it should.

Of course, I'm not going to just gush on and on about the engine. There are a couple very minor issues that you can tweak to make this work even better. First off, the camera controls are odd. I admit, I'm using a touchpad instead of a normal mouse, but there are still some things you can do to improve this. The controls feel a lot like Sonic Adventure, and if you remember, that game would have the camera rotate automatically to show you the general direction to go next. If you could have the camera move in a default pattern to hint at which directions to go, the levels would be much easier to navigate. This would be even more useful regarding your hollow tree. I had a very difficult time trying to climb up it, and would appreciate if you would either have the camera automatically point Sonic at the correct angle that simply pressing forward would result in a successful climb, or if you could put in speed boosters and just use them to automate the segment in a similar manner as the whale attack in Sonic Adventure. The tree was very difficult to climb, and once I hit the top, camera control issues resulted in me falling right back down.

My only other real complaint is that the Homing Attack doesn't seem to home in on enemies very well. It takes the proximity of a target as more of a suggestion than anything else. If you could make the lock-on work a bit better, it would be more useful. As it is right now, it doesn't seem to have that little snapping feel the Sonic Adventure games have when you hit the Homing Attack button, you know? In the official games, Sonic would dart directly at an enemy and have a satisfying feel of impact, as well as a sudden snap back to the offensive the instant you hit the button to attack again while on the rebound from the previous attack. This game just doesn't seem to have that same feel, and the Homing Attack seems like more of a half-hearted nudge in the vague direction of the target.

As it is, this is very fun to play and much more functional than any other BlitzSonic engine I've ever seen. If you can just make these slight tweaks to it, you've got something amazingly perfect on your hands.

#39 User is offline 8-Bit Dragon 

Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

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I wanted to point out, to those of you who haven't scrolled down and read the whole control set, that there are test shields using the keys 2-6 on the keyboard. You can jump and press the right-mouse button to activate that shield's special ability. Note that shield 2 is the normal shield which doesn't do anything but protect you from one hit!

Another thing to notice are the cheat codes toward the bottom of the booth page, which do various things. They are the same codes that worked in older versions of BlitzSonic Freerunner, plus one new one called the Spider Sonic cheat which lets you walk on walls.

Be sure to read the complete control set as there are numerous special controls, including the I key to change HUDs.

Also, there is a WIP guide, written in html, included with the engine to get you started on how to modify the config files!

View PostImpish, on 06 August 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

View Post8-Bit Dragon, on 06 August 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

SAGE 2012 is upon us, and BlitzSonic Freerunner engine is now available for download! You can find it at the Sonic Worldrunner forums in the announcements, or at the BlitzSonic Freerunner Engine SAGE booth. Questions and bug reports are welcome, as I'm trying to get this engine's source organized so that the engine will work as a great base from which to make better mods and to build the Sonic 3 Adventure game.

Another thing I wanted to bring up was the name. Apparently the name is a little too close to Sonic Adventure 3. I chose the name "Sonic 3 Adventure" because it describes the game nicely - its Sonic 3, 'adventureized', but it may cause some confusion. So if there are any suggestions for a name change they are certainly welcome.

S3K Adventure. Doesn't matter If you aren't planning to do the "and Knuckles" part, but it keeps it separate while still getting you meaning across. Either that or "Sonic the Third: Adventure!" but that sounds ridiculous (pick that one).

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the S3K Adventure more than, umm, 'Sonic the Third'. lol

Doing all the stages in Sonic 3 is going to be a lot of work, so will all the bosses and badniks. If I get far enough along that I feel I could manage to produce the Sonic and Knuckles stages, I would consider changing the name to S3K Adventure.

View PostKharen, on 07 August 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I played this one, and had mixed expectations. For one thing, I loved the idea to everything you were doing. The only big issue I had was the fact that you were using the BlitzSonic engine to do it. True, it's the only 3D engine other than SRB2 that my pathetic little laptop can run properly, but the physics and controls were so off that I found nearly anything I played utterly uncontrollable. Even looking on YouTube, I found that plenty of other people seemed to have the same problems I had, even resorting on a disturbing frequency to a flight cheat to repeatedly put Sonic back on the level, and yet nobody seemed to mention it. It had just seemed to become an accepted problem with the engine itself that nobody seemed to want to bother with fixing.

I'm ecstatic to say that you seem to have fixed all of the problems I had with BlitzSonic entirely. I played through both test levels, and actually enjoyed the controls and was able to have a good time. All the previous levels I had tried to play before left me deleting them within ten minutes of starting them up, but I played though your little playgrounds repeatedly, enjoying all the little aspects that I wasn't able to tolerate before. I really love what you've done, and I can't wait until you update with some actual levels. I'd like to see what kinds of level design you can come up with now that you have an enjoyable, functioning engine that works the way it should.

Of course, I'm not going to just gush on and on about the engine. There are a couple very minor issues that you can tweak to make this work even better. First off, the camera controls are odd. I admit, I'm using a touchpad instead of a normal mouse, but there are still some things you can do to improve this. The controls feel a lot like Sonic Adventure, and if you remember, that game would have the camera rotate automatically to show you the general direction to go next. If you could have the camera move in a default pattern to hint at which directions to go, the levels would be much easier to navigate. This would be even more useful regarding your hollow tree. I had a very difficult time trying to climb up it, and would appreciate if you would either have the camera automatically point Sonic at the correct angle that simply pressing forward would result in a successful climb, or if you could put in speed boosters and just use them to automate the segment in a similar manner as the whale attack in Sonic Adventure. The tree was very difficult to climb, and once I hit the top, camera control issues resulted in me falling right back down.

My only other real complaint is that the Homing Attack doesn't seem to home in on enemies very well. It takes the proximity of a target as more of a suggestion than anything else. If you could make the lock-on work a bit better, it would be more useful. As it is right now, it doesn't seem to have that little snapping feel the Sonic Adventure games have when you hit the Homing Attack button, you know? In the official games, Sonic would dart directly at an enemy and have a satisfying feel of impact, as well as a sudden snap back to the offensive the instant you hit the button to attack again while on the rebound from the previous attack. This game just doesn't seem to have that same feel, and the Homing Attack seems like more of a half-hearted nudge in the vague direction of the target.

As it is, this is very fun to play and much more functional than any other BlitzSonic engine I've ever seen. If you can just make these slight tweaks to it, you've got something amazingly perfect on your hands.

Thanks for the review! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. I'm trying my best to refine it into an engine that can be used for a real game and that's just what I wanted to hear! :)

The camera system is something I'm going to be working on soon. Things like scripted cameras and path following are somewhat complicated since I'm also trying my best to make it easy to edit, and to develop some sort of workflow to make it easy to incorporate into every level. I could quickly code a simple camera system to fix some issues, but it wouldn't be anywhere flexible enough. Once I figure out a decent way of coding a scripted camera in, I'll fit these special areas with cameras as soon as I build them. Also, you can test the path following with the F9 key. If you walk up to the rings at the bottom of the hollow tree, just press F9 and Sonic will follow them up the tree. It only works once, and Sonic can still fall if you touch the controls, but its a start to the kind of automated loops and gimmicks you see in SA/SA2.

The homing attack seems to be the biggest complaint I'm hearing. I planned to have a homing attack that would weaken the more you use it, and recharge gradually. But from what I hear, people seem to dislike the way Sonic just darts into the general direction of the target. I will change this to a true homing attack soon because I think you and everyone else are right, in that it doesn't have the same impact as a real homing attack. The only thing left to decide on, is the rebound. I was thinking of having Sonic jump straight up as he does in SA2, rather than rebound like the classic games. Perhaps I should make an option to switch between both?
This post has been edited by 8-Bit Dragon: 10 August 2012 - 07:33 PM

#40 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

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Didn't intend on doing a review, I just wanted to say what I thought about it. Although, looking at it again, it actually is a full review. I have absolutely no idea how in the world that happened...

Anyways, I had forgotten to mention it earlier, but I was curious if you were going to do any additional work on stuff like loops. I'm not saying to fully automate it, but if you could possibly have them lock Sonic onto the center of the path making up the loop, it would be much easier to run through it. The first time I hit a loop at high speed, I launched myself back the way I came because I didn't think I would have to actually steer Sonic through the loop.

Also, on the classic BlitzSonic test level, is it possible to add an invisible flat surface to the bridges? (Also, why are they white?) Sonic treats the slight slopes and curves of the logs as actual slopes and curves, and it ruins any attempt to run across it.

Finally, to answer your question about the Homing Attack, I think that giving the player the option would be best. I personally would prefer the SA2 method simply because it seems as though it would be easier to aim and direct successive attacks (and you know people making levels with the engine are going to make a Homing Attack chain path at some point). I'm not entirely certain how difficult it would be to chain attacks together with classic-style rebounds.

#41 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:05 PM

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I found a problem here. Don't know what causes it, but it's really bad.

So, after spending some time playing with the test stages, I figured I'd download some other levels to see how well it works in an actual level. You know, run it through it's paces and see how well it works in normal use. I went on YouTube and downloaded a level called "Seaside Palace". It looked very well designed and fun to play though, and it looked like it would make a decent level to do a test run in. I followed the directions to insert the level, simply unzipping the folder into the "Stages" folder.

When I started the level up, I had absolutely no lighting, textures, or anything. The sky was plain white, and all terrain and objects were completely black. I'm pretty sure Sonic was invisible completely, or if he wasn't, I couldn't see him.

Is there a difference in how your test levels work compared to a normal level? If so, what should I do to make a normal level load properly? If not, then this seems like a pretty big bug. I've seen the stage run on videos using older versions of the BlitzSonic engine, so I'm fairly certain it isn't the level. If you want the level I used to test this, just search "Seaside Palace" on YouTube, you should be able to find it easily.

#42 User is offline Morph 

Posted 16 August 2012 - 05:51 AM

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If I recall correctly, it's something to do with the stage's xml. It's only a minor difference—fog related, I think. In fact, I'm pretty certain it has something to do with the fog. Try copying the fog portion of the test level's stage xml into the custom one in the same general area; that should fix it. (in the <information> section of stage.xml)

#43 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:06 AM

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Didn't work. The level refused to open entirely. Oddly enough, Seaside Palace didn't even have anything about fog in it. I just tried copying it to the empty space where it would have gone.

#44 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:50 PM

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What I did to fix this on a previous version of the Freerunner engine is just copy a working stage's XML verbatim, but change it so it pointed to the correct files of the other stage I was trying to play.

#45 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:44 PM

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Stupid internet connection ruined my post. Here's the condensed version of what I wanted to say...

Talked to level creator about loading issue. Turns out I forgot a line when copying fog parameters.

Level plays well, but doesn't load any enemies. Turning is slightly loose while at high speed, but tolorable. Didn't test grinding, though. If problems come up, I'll bring them up here.
This post has been edited by Kharen: 16 August 2012 - 11:46 PM

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