[Candescence]

Alright, since we have some good ideas, let's buckle down and gather them into more comprehensive summaries of what the demo could be. I'll take the open landscape idea that's been discussed for the last page or so, and...

What is the theme of the demo level?

A rolling English countryside, with trees, rocks, and grass as far as the eye can see. Maybe have some odd rock rock formations that look suspiciously like loops here and there. Plenty of space to run around in, and using the natural environment as a physics playground. Possibly even a lake to either run on top of or take a dip in. If the guys doing assets have time, we could put in some houses, farmland, etc. Something large in scale, but at the same time, can be easily designed, modeled and modified.

Other potential ideas include: the remains of a castle scattered about the landscape that forms some of the more over-the-top structures. Some streams along with the lake, and maybe even have Little Planet in the sky as a Sonic CD reference.

The main reason for this theme is because creating such a landscape is relatively easy compared to other themes - the terrain is easy enough to create and edit, allowing for a basic environement for Sonic to run around in, and then there's trees, rocks and grass, not that difficult to make. And we can add other things once we have the basic assets created, for additional content.

What would make the demo look pretty?
The huge landscape that extends as far as the eye can see, moving clouds, lots of grass, lighting... Large-scale is a good way to make a level look interesting.

What hardware should it be targeted for?
Mid-end hardware, with graphics options for higher-end hardware.

What gameplay style should it follow?
A large enough environment could accommodate any style, but my personal preference is Classic-based 3D gameplay, which takes full advantage of the landscape. But we can have 'missions' that change the gameplay style to demonstrate what we want.

Hell, since Black Knight did that whole countryside thing first, we could even include the option to give Sonic a sword and swing it around. Might be a good way to show off how the engine could do even more than just 'classic' and 'modern'.

How can we showcase specific feature sets with this demo?
Well, with good level design, basically. Depends on what said feature sets are.

This post has been edited by Candescence: 30 April 2012 - 10:14 PM

[Jayextee]

No on Angel Island? I thought you guys liked S3K. It likes you.

At least give it some consideration over a very un-Soniclike sprawling landscape of laziness.

[Candescence]

Jayextee, on 29 April 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

No on Angel Island? I thought you guys liked S3K. It likes you.

At least give it some consideration over a very un-Soniclike sprawling landscape of laziness.

Well, don't get me wrong, Angel Island Zone isn't a bad idea, but we're trying to make a demo level, not make S3&K 3D, I personally think something simpler would be better for an engine demonstration. That being said, we're gonna have to chose which idea to utilize, we have to stop making up ideas at some point and come to a consensus.

[Jayextee]

My standpoint was that the first part is a small enough area to use as a physics playground, yet recognisable enough to show the potential for making Sonic games with a classic flavour. Something about a large expansive English countryside doesn't really yell 'classic Sonic'. I didn't mean to start remaking S3K, but to suggest something tangible enough to discuss the pros and cons of before continuing.

[Candescence]

Well, I understand your point, but we're not aiming for a 'classic' thing, after all, this is a general-purpose engine. Sure, a large, english countryside doesn't sound 'classic', but the idea is something simple and general-purpose, something we can easily create to show off the capabilities of the engine, mechanically and visually, and after the basic terrain is created, we can easily create 'missions' with different object placements and whatnot to demonstrate different gameplay styles, be it 'classic' or 'modern', 3D or 2.5D. And we can include more fantastical elements too if people want them.

Angel Island Zone doesn't seem nearly as 'malleable' to me, personally, it would be more difficult to accommodate more than one gameplay style for the purposes of the demo.

[Kharen]

English countryside seems alright to me. Expansive enough for free-roaming areas, and 2D areas seem easy enough to make look good, you just need to move the camera to the side. If you want a Modern-style track, you just put in a road with a fence on either side to represent the sides of the track and where you're not allowed to go. The only thing is, other than random rocks that look like loops, how would you add in all the crazy stage design like corkscrews, huge ramps and jumps, etc.?

[Azu]

I'd go with Angel Island. Or, you can do both.

[Candescence]

Kharen, on 29 April 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

The only thing is, other than random rocks that look like loops, how would you add in all the crazy stage design like corkscrews, huge ramps and jumps, etc.?

Well, you could litter the landscape with remains of, say, a castle that used to exist in the area but is now practically in pieces. Relatively easy to model as well, and could add some variety to the level.

[Aerosol]

I guess we could do Angel Island. But not only am I more interested in see an English countryside, but I'm also concerned that the lush, jungle flora of Angel Island might be too hard to pull off convincingly, defeating the purpose of a demo meant to show off graphical capabilities.

Which brings me to my next point. I only mentioned suspicious rock formations in order to solidify the demo as being Sonic related. Anything crazier than a loop really isn't all that necessary for a quick demo. And even if we did throw in some of Sonic's crazier obstacles (like corkscrews), why can't they just be suspicious rock formations too?

Also, hell yea on a lake. Maybe a couple of streams here and there. We could even go one step further and throw Little Planet up in the sky!

No? Would that be too much?

This post has been edited by AerosolSP: 30 April 2012 - 03:10 PM

[WillWare]

AerosolSP, on 30 April 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

No? Would that be too much?

I don't believe so. Just add models.

Also... all that I've seen for this is the concept, and I already love it. Good luck with this!

This post has been edited by WillWare: 26 August 2012 - 11:19 PM

[Kharen]

You mentioned Little Planet being up in the sky, and I instantly thought of a fully explorable, 3D version of the area shown in the intro of Sonic CD. Maybe we could keep the countryside idea, and just throw in a bunch of little references like that, with the looping trees, and running up the side of a cliff.

[Candescence]

Quote

Which brings me to my next point. I only mentioned suspicious rock formations in order to solidify the demo as being Sonic related. Anything crazier than a loop really isn't all that necessary for a quick demo. And even if we did throw in some of Sonic's crazier obstacles (like corkscrews), why can't they just be suspicious rock formations too?

Also, hell yea on a lake. Maybe a couple of streams here and there. We could even go one step further and throw Little Planet up in the sky!

Oooh, now THAT is an idea! A few neat details, and we suddenly have a Sonic CD homage. *Adds to summary post*

[TheInvisibleSun]

Candescence, on 30 April 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Quote

Which brings me to my next point. I only mentioned suspicious rock formations in order to solidify the demo as being Sonic related. Anything crazier than a loop really isn't all that necessary for a quick demo. And even if we did throw in some of Sonic's crazier obstacles (like corkscrews), why can't they just be suspicious rock formations too?

Also, hell yea on a lake. Maybe a couple of streams here and there. We could even go one step further and throw Little Planet up in the sky!

Oooh, now THAT is an idea! A few neat details, and we suddenly have a Sonic CD homage. *Adds to summary post*

This would be excellent. And also quite sufficient for a physics-test level.

[Andrew75]

Why not make the showcase environment simple?
Does it necessarily need to be a full themed level with rolling hills and mountains or even Angel island ?!
I think areas such as these should stay to the main game , and not to a test level.

You'll be working on it far longer than necessary.
Perhaps you could have a hill here and there if thats what you wanted to test.

I think the best thing you guys could do is first make a list of what you want to see in the game,
than make 1 of each type of play-field asset and lay them out in order so that sonic can easily access each of them quickly for testing and or showcasing.

Also if you want to test out graphical effects,,
If it were me, I'd use some simple spheres with the graphical effects applied,
than place them in a small room, and have sonic run around the room to view them.
Simple and quick....


Also have you guys figured out what scales you'll be modeling in ?
If it were me, id use the default 3DS max units and set the grid spacing to 1.
than set up the game engine's units to the same size as 1 max unit.
And I recommend staying away from measurements such as meters ect. As I've seen with GDK , and a few other engines.
There were no default standard for modeling levels and translating them to the game engine's units system.
many assets were usually scaled differently, causing more work getting assets to line up in the engine for the guy setting up assets within the engine.

anyways working with my green hill level here,
1 Sonic texture pixel = 1 3DS max unit = 1 game engine unit = best advise I can give.
this will also help keep everything in sync, like sonic's height relative to level props and play-field assets that he plays on.
as well as jump height and run speed going across the play-field asset like a loop.
(for those who care about proper playtimes, ( or correct play feeling) if they wanted to recreate an older level and have it feel correct.)
The scale will also effect the way the physics feal as well. (if your going to do a 2.5D Sonic) scale is more important than you man think.

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 01 May 2012 - 09:35 AM

[Aerosol]

I'm pretty sure that the demo is supposed to showcase the engine's graphical capabilities. Wasn't that why we were talking about having those rolling hills to begin with? Besides, I think you're overestimating how much work it takes to create that kind of terrain. Grossly, in fact.

We're not talking about a fully-themed level. We're talking about using a terrain generator to get some hills, filling it with grass with a realistic grass rendering thingy (sorcery), and putting a couple of loops here and there to play with the physics a bit.