[jasonchrist]

Molotok, on 28 March 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Cranky Kong mode go!

I remember when you had only three lives to get through an entire game and if you didn't get the points or items for an extra life, then you were right [bleep]ed!

This x1000! I really miss the days when "Game Over" really fucking meant "Game Over" and you had to go aaaaaall the way back to the beginning. Since 94 you can just start where you left off, and that's wrong as fuck! 3K should've erased your save when you got a game over... but then again you must be REALLY shit if that happens because you can potentially yield 10 lives and a continue from as little as 20-odd rings. Oh yeah, continues. I felt like the biggest faggot in the world back in the day if I had to use a continue.

Anyway time limits don't really bother me so much.

[Volpino]

jasonchrist, on 04 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Molotok, on 28 March 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Cranky Kong mode go!

I remember when you had only three lives to get through an entire game and if you didn't get the points or items for an extra life, then you were right [bleep]ed!

This x1000! I really miss the days when "Game Over" really fucking meant "Game Over" and you had to go aaaaaall the way back to the beginning. Since 94 you can just start where you left off, and that's wrong as fuck! 3K should've erased your save when you got a game over... but then again you must be REALLY shit if that happens because you can potentially yield 10 lives and a continue from as little as 20-odd rings. Oh yeah, continues. I felt like the biggest faggot in the world back in the day if I had to use a continue.

Anyway time limits don't really bother me so much.

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Try reading through the last couple pages.

This post has been edited by Volpino: 04 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

[dsrb]

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

[gold lightning]

I have to say that the high risk in old-school gaming is what drew me into gaming. It has been quite a while since I felt the kind of pressure that Jason is talking about. There's nothing like being extremely nervous because you reached the Death Egg or Mario world 8-4 with just 2 lives. The payoff of actually pulling it off while under those circumstances is a thrill that I miss nowadays. Sure you might instead get a game over and be bummed out for a while, but that always made me want vengeance even more on that motherfucking final boss. Thus, it sorta added replayability for me as well.

I always felt that time limits in levels were good because it keeps the pace of the game higher. I also felt that if you sucked so bad that you reached 10 minutes you deserved to lose a life. Plus if you didn't suck and chose to spend that long in a level to explore, you should also have collected plenty of lives in the level before the time limit anyway. Thus, it really didn't do much to you at all anyway.

This post has been edited by gold lightning: 04 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

[Solid SOAP]

In retrospect, the time limit wasn't THAT much a problem in the classics. However, it was pointless in CD, which had a heavy emphasis on exploration above speed. It was more of a distraction than a challenge to me, really. I didn't feel challenged to beat each level in 10 minutes, I felt that it was more of a burden and annoyance than anything.

[Jayextee]

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

Thirded. Gimme a fucking challenge, I'm man enough to handle it. That's why I once hacked into Sonic 1, insta-kill on the spikes. If I knew how to give myself a 2 minute time limit, I would've done.

[Volpino]

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

I also like games that have the option of being hard for the people that want a hard game, because I actually respect that some people would like a harder difficulty, as long as I can have my easier one.

I don't see you two giving me the same courtesy.

This post has been edited by Volpino: 04 April 2012 - 04:44 PM

[OKei]

Jayextee, on 04 April 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

Thirded. Gimme a fucking challenge, I'm man enough to handle it.

Fourth'd. This is a reason I go back to playing games like Viewtiful Joe and Elite Beat Agents. Those games are brutal at there hardest difficulty, but very pleasurable and rewarding. I see higher difficulty as a form of discipline. It can teach you how not to repeat any mistakes you've done over and over again, and have you rethink your strategy to complete a level.

For the record, I tend to start my games at Normal difficulty to get a feel of the game. Then when I beat or go back to the game at a later point in time, I would try again at a higher difficulty. It's a reason for me to come back to the game.

[Volpino]

Tiberious, on 04 April 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

I dunno. I never really had problems with the timer, except Carnival Night 2 early on, but I think that's due to that dick-move barrel, combined with the (usually) slow as hell boss fight (benefit of experience has made these trivial).

Of course, Security Hall, well, that was a pure dick move, and I hated that pants-on-head retarded setup, while giving you only 5 minutes with a gimped radar. Worse, the remake removed the very helpful bug that let you actually clear it in any decent time, making you go through, find the emerald, trudge back up to the switches, hit the right one, go back down, collect, and repeat. Stupid if you hated using the hint screens.

But, games are meant to be a challenge, hmm? Alright then. Let's dream up a 'Hardcore' hack of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. We'll give it 5-minute time limits, only 14 big rings leading to instant top-speed special stages where you have to Perfect the stage to get the emerald. Oh yeah, take out the extra life routine, disable SRAM, change the 'bad ending' to instant game over, and just to discourage cheating, if changes to RAM are made outside their normal write routines, error the game out. Fail at this Sonic equivalent to Kaizo Mario? Well, guess you suck. Get better at it.



Bad example? Maybe. But how well do you think the game would have sold if that were the retail release? My guess is that would have killed the series outright and we wouldn't even be here today.

Just wanted to say this response really made my day. People are insane when they think difficulty is all that matters in a game, there are so many downsides to it.

OKei, on 04 April 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Jayextee, on 04 April 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

Thirded. Gimme a fucking challenge, I'm man enough to handle it.

Fourth'd. This is a reason I go back to playing games like Viewtiful Joe and Elite Beat Agents. Those games are brutal at there hardest difficulty, but very pleasurable and rewarding. I see higher difficulty as a form of discipline. It can teach you how not to repeat any mistakes you've done over and over again, and have you rethink your strategy to complete a level.

For the record, I tend to start my games at Normal difficulty to get a feel of the game. Then when I beat or go back to the game at a later point in time, I would try again at a higher difficulty. It's a reason for me to come back to the game.

So, honest question. Are you guys total work-o-holics in real life?

This post has been edited by Volpino: 05 April 2012 - 01:41 AM

[muteKi]

There need to be more games that, when you die in them, automatically uninstall themselves and leave a mark for themselves in the registry somewhere which, when found, will prevent reinstallation.

[Molotok]

jasonchrist, on 04 April 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Molotok, on 28 March 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Cranky Kong mode go!

I remember when you had only three lives to get through an entire game and if you didn't get the points or items for an extra life, then you were right [bleep]ed!

This x1000! I really miss the days when "Game Over" really fucking meant "Game Over" and you had to go aaaaaall the way back to the beginning. Since 94 you can just start where you left off, and that's wrong as fuck! 3K should've erased your save when you got a game over... but then again you must be REALLY shit if that happens because you can potentially yield 10 lives and a continue from as little as 20-odd rings. Oh yeah, continues. I felt like the biggest faggot in the world back in the day if I had to use a continue.

Anyway time limits don't really bother me so much.

Just wanted to say that I used that phrase because Cranky Kong bitched about the old days being better when you visited him in DKC ... and in reference to me not seeing a game over screen on said game (though I never did get all the bonus areas in the levels). Not really a big deal, I know, because of the whole save feature.

... Also, are we still talking about this? I said that I was fine with a range of difficulty settings and that it really depends on the genre as to what constitutes challenging. Though, most of the games I've played recently have only really been challenging if one is looking to 100% it.

muteKi, on 05 April 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

There need to be more games that, when you die in them, automatically uninstall themselves and leave a mark for themselves in the registry somewhere which, when found, will prevent reinstallation.

Isn't that like a cross-sequel between I Wanna Be The Guy and Rogue? =P

EDIT: I have seen someone go near insane from IWBTG, and that was only on the Normal setting (UltraJMan, but I think he took the videos down). So, clearly I do have a limit on trying to be "hardcore".

This post has been edited by Molotok: 05 April 2012 - 03:55 AM

[Jayextee]

Volpino, on 05 April 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

OKei, on 04 April 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Jayextee, on 04 April 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Big

Ass

Quote Pyramid

So, honest question. Are you guys total work-o-holics in real life?

Depends. If I enjoy the work, then hell yes. Ditto if I enjoy the game. I don't think that's a coincidence.

[dsrb]

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

dsrb, on 04 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Volpino, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Yeah let's take the fun out of video games.

Having no risk can divest a game of fun just as much as anything else can.

We get it. You like easy games. So? That's your opinion. And that’s Jason's opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him here.

I also like games that have the option of being hard for the people that want a hard game, because I actually respect that some people would like a harder difficulty, as long as I can have my easier one.

I don't see you two giving me the same courtesy.

Actually, I agree with you all the way here. I suppose our difference after that is largely personal preference as to which of said modes we'd prefer (after having argued for their inclusion.

That said, I can't help but think that games (especially Sonic ones) should be a bit more difficult by default—regardless of whether or not they provide an option. Hey, just make what the majority of them are now into easy mode, and make other modes for other players—or, of course, for those who begin on easy and later get better, because that's a very satisfying thing in itself.

Volpino, on 05 April 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

So, honest question. Are you guys total work-o-holics in real life?

Honestly? Not really! I'm one of the laziest people I know. Having said that, in the right environment, I can't sit down or stand still; I have to keep working and at the limit of my speed and stress-tolerance. It really depends.

Not that it relates much to my approach to gaming, whatever that is! :P The possible exception being that, if I found that mythical job-I-would-enjoy, then perhaps we'd see some relevance.

[Deef]

I'm surprised so many people are passionate about it. I always thought it was strange that the time limit was so long.

I mean I don't want Sonic gameplay to change into something about racing the clock, I just never considered the 10 minute time limit to ever really be limiting. When I caught myself actually running out of time in CNZ I always thought "Hey wow, a level that actually gives the timer some meaning." I have always messed about as much as I desired, never thinking of the clock, and almost never ran out of time. I guess some people just like to roam about a lot more.

So removing the limit wouldn't improve a game in a way I would notice, but it wouldn't hurt either.

[KingofHarts]

muteKi, on 05 April 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

There need to be more games that, when you die in them, automatically uninstall themselves and leave a mark for themselves in the registry somewhere which, when found, will prevent reinstallation.

Sheer fucking brilliance.

Here's a similar idea maybe someone on Retro could do. Hack Sonic so that if you get a Time Over or Game Over... the hack deletes itself and the emulator as well, and resets your desktop to a middle finger, or something...
(You don't need to install emulators, so leave that part out.)