[W.A.C.]

Volpino, on 01 April 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

I actually think arcade games are completely obsolete now; I cannot think of any reason they'd be remotely more appealing than any other genre that has evolved for more than nostalgic or historical reasons.

There is nothing wrong with arcade styled games if they're executed well, it's just certain elements of arcade styled games end up feeling half-assed on consoles. While I don't own the Metal Slug Anthology, I've read that game gives gamers the option of play the game with unlimited continues or limited continues. Judging from one time I played Metal Slug 4 at an arcade, I imagine every game on that collection is probably piss easy with unlimited continues turned on. Granted, the continues setup worked well for the arcade version because it was a good way to get people to continue putting in quarters, but it feels illogical in a home console setup. A time limit also made sense for the arcade version of Sonic games because you don't want some kid hogging the arcade machine for six hours to explore every ounce of every level. It doesn't make sense in a home console experience because it feels like an unnecessary add-on from the arcades.

[Volpino]

W.A.C., on 01 April 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Volpino, on 01 April 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

I actually think arcade games are completely obsolete now; I cannot think of any reason they'd be remotely more appealing than any other genre that has evolved for more than nostalgic or historical reasons.

There is nothing wrong with arcade styled games if they're executed well, it's just certain elements of arcade styled games end up feeling half-assed on consoles. While I don't own the Metal Slug Anthology, I've read that game gives gamers the option of play the game with unlimited continues or limited continues. Judging from one time I played Metal Slug 4 at an arcade, I imagine every game on that collection is probably piss easy with unlimited continues turned on. Granted, the continues setup worked well for the arcade version because it was a good way to get people to continue putting in quarters, but it feels illogical in a home console setup. A time limit also made sense for the arcade version of Sonic games because you don't want some kid hogging the arcade machine for six hours to explore every ounce of every level. It doesn't make sense in a home console experience because it feels like an unnecessary add-on from the arcades.

Maybe it's just because I've never actually played an arcade game (And I have played enough, I think) that I thought worked well at home. On my Win95, the games felt limited, but they made sense in an arcade; you can't make a huge game like Spyro or Tails Adventures and plonk it in the middle of an arcade and expect kids to share, but at home, it's the exact opposite.

For the record, I've only stepped in an arcade once in my life so I have a limited perspective on how arcade games work in an actual arcade. (That was one of the worst experiences of my life.)

[f2bnp]

It's useless, but I rarely notice. I occasionally have some trouble beating Carnival Night Zone within the time limit, but I've never had it intervene like that in any other stage!

[ICEknight]

Volpino, on 01 April 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

A lot of arcade games I played as a kid didn't have time limits anyway.

What arcade games did you play.

The falling pieces in Tetris count as a time limit.

[Caniad Bach]

I think a good way to reintroduce the time limits would be to have varying time limits per stage, but the clock would count downwards, explicitly showing the player that they should be aiming to achieve a fast time. This would prevent people being confused when they die after 5 minutes in one stage, and 7 in the next. The amount of time available would be slower than you'd need to complete the stage, but doing it quickly would give you bonus points and a better rank.

You could have the option to turn the time limit off, but you'd only be able to get a maximum of rank A, and not S.

[Volpino]

ICEknight, on 01 April 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Volpino, on 01 April 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

A lot of arcade games I played as a kid didn't have time limits anyway.

What arcade games did you play.

The falling pieces in Tetris count as a time limit.

Asteroids, several Space Invaders copies for PC, a Frogger remake for PC, not sure if Minesweeper counts, some pinball game that came with Win95, some games based off H.E. characters where you shot things or bounced a dog around like some brick breaker, some game called Diamonds or something but I barely remember it now, several Pac-Man remakes for PC, a Tetris remake for PC, and whatever games were present on Cartoon Network's site back when AOL was still a thing. (I remember not being able to play them when someone wanted to use the phone. :V)

For the record, Pac-Man and Tetris never held my interest for very long. My attitude was, and still is, "All you do is stack blocks or eat things and you never get anything for it." I just kind of group any game that plays like that under "arcade."

This post has been edited by Volpino: 01 April 2012 - 04:40 PM

[ICEknight]

Man, you have a lot of catching up to do with videogames, seriously.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 01 April 2012 - 06:16 PM

[Vangar]

The time limit in Sonic is a reminder that the game is supposed to be completed faster as you get more skilled at the game. I do like it but I can see how It doesn't need to be a requirement.

Lives allow you to continue from checkpoints in the level. If you run out of lives, you need to do the level from the start. This is still a method that works. (See: Sonic Generations)

[Volpino]

ICEknight, on 01 April 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Man, you have a lot of catching up to do with videogames, seriously.

No I don't, just because I don't play the games you like doesn't mean shit.

[W.A.C.]

Vangar, on 01 April 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Lives allow you to continue from checkpoints in the level. If you run out of lives, you need to do the level from the start. This is still a method that works. (See: Sonic Generations)

The only problem I have with Generations' lives system is the fact restarting it from the pause menu causes you to lose a life. I can exit out of the level, then re-enter it from the hub-world and not lose a life. It's essentially the same process as clicking restart, but just more time consuming which makes the loss of a life from restarting a level seem extremely pointless. I don't think Mario or Sonic will ever get rid of the lives system since it's such an iconic part of their games. The time limit however, isn't.

[Solid SOAP]

My problem with the time limit is that it's too long to even be considered a challenge, but the fact that it's there completely discourages exploration. I only really ever found it a problem in Sonic CD, which has a heavy emphasis on exploration above speed, it just isn't necessary in a game like that nor is it necessary in the classics. What makes the timer in classic Mario intuitive is the fact that it times down, and the higher number you have on your time, the more points you'll receive on your overall score. In Sonic, your score is based on how fast you beat the level, yes, but I'm pretty sure you just don't earn any sort of time bonus after a certain time on the clock, thus making the 10 minute timer pointless.

[Ravenfreak]

Time limit in Sonic CD? Well no more in my hack. You'll find it in this post:
http://forums.sonicr...ndpost&p=675354

[W.A.C.]

I really appreciate the fact you've been making these rom hacks. I really enjoyed replaying Sonic 2 without the time limit and I'm especially enjoying S3&K without the time limit. Thank you. ^_^

[Volpino]

Ravenfreak, on 02 April 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Time limit in Sonic CD? Well no more in my hack. You'll find it in this post:
http://forums.sonicr...ndpost&p=675354

I think that's awesome, though it's a shame I can't apply that to the new version or I might actually spend money on it. :V

[Sawhog]

The only time the time limit was a problem was when I was younger and I was bad at the Sonic Games... And if I did get a time over, I'd just lose a life, and have to start at the last checkpoint. Not much of a problem, just a momentary setback.