Just remember that any abilities you include must be totally unique. For example, bouncing higher is something that a bubble shield can achieve. Thinking about it, even wall jumping isn't very 'classic Sonic', because it replaces what would be Knuckles' climbing move and makes Sonic more of an ultimate character rather than the standard. I and a lot of people saw Sonic as an all round character rather than anything ultra special in all the classic and Advance games. He could run fast, even later had a few flips and special spins, but he couldn't glide, couldn't fly, couldn't swim, and relied on skill rather than 'cheating' moves.
To stay 'classic' without feeling like you're going in to the realms of a fan game, I personally would actually just bung all of his current attacks in for him (the spindash, the insta-shield and the super peel out), if you're not thinking of including the homing attack that is.
Agree with this pretty much (apart from your homing attack stance). Wall jumping negates the point of playing the game again as Knuckles. The sheer fun of Sonic 3k was seeing areas that you couldn't get to as the character you were playing as, reinforcing your desire to play though the game again.
Even if it comes down to you just sticking with the tried and tested 3K moveset, so be it! When you try to force yourself to come up with new ideas for the sake of it, they just end up being shit (see the homo-attack in Episode 2). As I said earlier, forget about extra abilities for now. If you can come up with them later, great! But for now just focus on creating a game that Sonic can get through with simple running, rolling and jumping.
This post has been edited by jasonchrist: 18 March 2012 - 08:35 PM
1: Each game steadily used a more elaborate art style than the previous. If your HD-looking picture is the actual art direction for the game, then you're doing great already. If the video you showed using Genesis Sonic sprites is the art direction, you're going to have to take care to make sure the artwork looks authentic as well as also being a logical next step for the series. (That made sense in my head, not sure if it came out right.)
2: Each game added new things to the Sonic formula. Sonic 1 set the basics: high speed, loops (not commonly used), momentum-based physics. Sonic CD (included because I'm fairly certain it was meant as a straight sequel instead of a spin-off) introduced the Spin Dash, Peel-Out (hasn't been seen again), and two new characters (Amy and Metal Sonic). Sonic 2 perfected the Spin Dash, and introduced Tails as a second playable character. Sonic 3/Knuckles introduced Zone transition cutscenes as well as a more elaborate storyline, a new playable character (Knuckles, duh), and unique abilities for each character.
As you can see, each game added new ideas to the Sonic formula and pruned out ideas that didn't seem to work. When an idea was accepted by the public as a good one, it was improved upon. An example of this would be the evolution of the Spin Dash from Sonic CD to Sonic 2, Tails going from a Sonic re-skin to having flight abilities, as well as the shield item evolving into the three elemental shields in S3&K. New abilities need to be balanced, though, to prevent a single character from breaking the game's difficulty as well as inadvertantly gaining access to character-specific areas (if you choose to go the S3&K multiple-character route) While the Homing Attack has been proposed as a new Sonic ability to introduce to the classic formula, I feel a more classic-feeling ability to be in order, such as the Peel-Out.
Like I mentioned earlier, bad ideas were pruned out from the Sonic series between games, and the Peel-Out never appeared outside of Sonic CD. I believe this to be because the move was generally useless: the Spin Dash served an identical function and also included near-invincibility with the exceptions of crushing, spikes, and pits. However, if you were to implement it more creatively and actually add it to the level design's considerations, it could serve as a fairly useful and unique ability that also makes sense in a canon standpoint. First off, the Peel-Out gave more speed than a Spin Dash. Slopes leading to a tall vertical wall could be areas only accessable with the additional speed the Peel-Out provides. A horizontal breakable barrier could serve as a deterrent for Tails/Knuckles if they're included, Tails being unable to break through using flight, and Knuckles being unable to utilize enough speed to break through if the player has him climb the wall leading to it. Canon-wise, it serves as a logical step between classic gameplay and Sonic developing his Boost ability seen in current games.
3: Chaos Emerald Special Stages always utilized whatever new programming technique Sonic Team learned to implement. Sonic 1 showed off a rotation technique which, if I remember correctly, was a big deal at the time. (The game came out the same year I was born, so I'm going off of things I read about the time). Mode 7 pseudo-3D was the latest thing when Sonic CD through S3&K were released, leading to the 3D used in their Special Stages. Try to keep in mind what system and techniques were available at the time period you're trying to imitate. If the games continued to be released at the same rate Sonic 1 through S3&K were released, I estimate that the Sega Saturn would have been the system the game was released on, so try to keep it's limitations in mind when you design your game.
Graphical styles should be taken into consideration as well. If the main game is going to be on the same level as the Genesis Sonic games, suddenly transitioning to a full 3D, Sonic R-looking Special Stage would be rather jarring. However, if you could keep in mind the graphical style used in Blue Sphere, I think that a well-working full 3D Special Stage could be a great idea to implement. Just make sure character and environment graphics are on-par with the standard level designs.
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I could add more, but my little siblings are bugging me for ice cream. If I think of anything that needs added, I'll either add a new post or edit this one. I hope I brought up at least something useful to think about.
Spin dash was required in Sonic 3K (Lava Reef comes to mind. And Mushroom Hill makes you use it if you get caught in the vine trap.) I believe it was optional in Sonic 2 though, but I'm not sure.
To make this a real sequel you'll need.
-To keep the shields and abilities from Sonic 3 (Insta-Shield and all the shield abilities. Don't go back to the Sonic 1/2 shield like the official Sonic 4 did.)
-Sonic 1 had Sonic, Sonic 2 had Tails and Sonic, Sonic 3 had Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. Following that formula you'd have all those characters plus one more.
-Keep Sub-Bosses and act transitions.
-a unique 3D special stages. All the classic games had a unique special stage. And after Sonic 1 they were always in 3D. And they all had a unique way to get into them. (coming up with this would probably be hard. But that's just my opinion.)
-And an extra move for all the characters. If you can't think of anything that's unique and useful (but not required.) you could always use a variation of the super peel out, though you may want it to work differently than Sonic CD's, since we have the spin dash here super peel out won't be so useful if it'
s exactly the same. You'd want to give a good reason to use it rather than the spin dash.
___
Do that and I think it's a true sequel. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this.
I didn't literally mean that playing as the other two characters is cheating, rather that it's much easier as them to plough through levels and find solutions to hard platforming sections. As a child f I knew I'd get stuck I'd always try playing as Knuckles or Tails, usually Knuckles because if I jumped down a pit, I knew I could just cling to the wall and climb back up.
The homing attack doesn't do much for Sonic in Sonic 4 because it mostly stops you dead and the level design requires it. If you look at my example of what the homing attack should be it'll give you a clearer idea of what I'd like to see.
What would Sonic 4 as I imagined it contain? (caution, my opinions are known to make people crazy with their absurdity)
ORIGINAL CONTENT. New badniks, new(ish) level tropes, new music, new ideas.
A greater gap between character's abilities. I loved Knuckles having a 'heavier' (smaller) jump in S&K, I'd take it further. Also, since Tails' tails can attack whilst he's willyhelicoptering, weaken his jump? I don't know, experiment.
Time attack and score attack and whatever modes to keep me playing. But then, I still play Sonic 1, so...
Shorter levels than S3K, just more of them. I'd rather see a follow-up to S2 in this regard personally.
Surreal art style. The more out-there, the better.
Colours, motherfucker. Yeah, I loves some colours.
Platforming. Scale back S3K's rollercoaster sections and vary the pace a bit more like S1 does.
ORIGINAL CONTENT. This is important
This is just me though; I like S1 and S2 the most. I know a lot of people here want S3K++ and I'd like to bash their face in until naught is left but a greasy red smear on the tarmac outside. But hey, whatever floats your boat guys.
Personally, Sonic 4 as I imagined it does include the Homing Attack. It just needs to be refined, as we've been saying. And it needs to have good music. I don't even care if it emulates the classic style, it has to be GOOD. Sonic games are known for their catchy tunes.
Black Squirrel, on 19 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:
Blivsey, on 18 March 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:
Black Squirrel, on 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
They gave Motobug the ability to turn. That was a good idea
Yes but in order to do that they had to include Motobugs, I.e. rehash an enemy concept from 1991
which is not a good idea =P
Hear that? Bringing back a fan-favorite baddie and improving it is a bad idea, SEGA.
I was going to rant about the homing attack, but instead I decided to try and suggest a compromise. How about having the homing attack being an unlockable extra that you get for completing the game, which can be turned on in the options screen. Alternatively make it an ability that is confined to a shield, or that only Super Sonic can use.
A greater gap between character's abilities. I loved Knuckles having a 'heavier' (smaller) jump in S&K, I'd take it further. Also, since Tails' tails can attack whilst he's willyhelicoptering, weaken his jump? I don't know, experiment.
I always wanted to see something more like that as well, differances between characters that aren't just "lets add a new move" maybe you could drop tails acceleration in the same way knuckles has a lower jump, keep everyone at the same top speed though. Also I say bring back the instant shield for sonic (doesn't get as much love as it should do).
Jayextee, on 19 March 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:
Surreal art style. The more out-there, the better.
As long as you stay firmly in the surreal and don't edge into fantasy. I'm ok with strange plants and geometric level patterns but I was never keen on levels made out of musical instruments and food.
Black Squirrel, on 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:
Sonic 4 as I imagine it would not have homing attacks. In fact, it would likely disregard anything the series has offered since 1998 as well as all the western experiments like Sonic 3D and Sonic R. And you'd ignore Sonic CD and 8-bit outings and all sorts, for the same reason Sonic 3 ignored them.
Your current stuff and scrapped Michael Jackson tunes capture that period rather well. I think the key is to avoid the temptation of listening to most Sonic games and take Sonic Jam as a close approximation of what a "proper" Sonic the Hedgehog game from 1996/1997-ish would look like.
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
Well, I am ignoring everything after Sonic 3&K, just as they would have done making Sonic 4 directly after, as it would not have happened.
Caniad Bach, on 18 March 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:
Personally, I'd want a Sonic 4 to take fresh ideas on new tropes. I really like the art style of the picture you've got up there, but it just screams Emerald Hill Zone 2.0. All the classic Sonic games had similar tropes, EG a green level to begin with, but always took a different way of approaching them. Of course it's too early to tell where it's going at the moment. I personally think a lush, perhaps misty in places Amazonian forest would be a neat idea for a level that hasn't really been done yet. It would lead for great room to have swinging vines, high platforming paths on top of trees, water sections and sinking mud. Maybe Sonic could grab a parrot and be lifted to areas, which could either be an automatic A to B, or controlled by the player like the gliders in the GG games.
Wall jump might be a good idea if implemented well, but to me one of the joys of Sonic is its simplicity, and the one button play is part of its 'pick up and play' charm, in my opinion. It would take some careful balancing to make sure it didn't slow down the gameplay for people who want to speed through the levels (a right which must be gained by ability rather than FASTFASTFASTBOOSTERS), and I wouldn't want to be jumping towards a wall and accidentally stick to it. Knuckles can already jump between walls.
Also I'd like Sonic to look like he does in the intro to SCD, because to me that's the coolest fucking art style for him ever.
I wish this project the best of luck and hope it really is Sonic 4 as well all imagined it!
EDIT: Fuck the homing attack. Fuck it with a wall full of sandpaper cocks.
Umm, the first level is kind of a Forest, beach, and Hill mix. It's hard to describe what I have in my head, but hopefully it will be what you will see. Nothing is stopping me having more than one 'Grass Level', just like Sonic 2 had 2 'Factory' levels, but they were very different. I can do the same, because there is a lot to cover.
I hate the Homing Attack too. Even in 3D.
dsrb, on 18 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:
Caniad Bach, on 18 March 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:
I'd like Sonic to look like he does in the intro to SCD, because to me that's the coolest fucking art style for him ever.
This.
And hey, you could rationalise it canonically by claiming that the angularity in Sonic World was intentional!
This sounds good. Very good. I'll look into it...
AerosolSP, on 18 March 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:
What would like to see in Sonic 4?
*Fully hand-painted levels
*Buttery smooth, cartoony animation on characters (ala Sonic CD intro!)
*A return to the level structure of S3K, including:
-Minibosses
-Level transitions
*A brand new kind of special stage, or atleast an honest-to-good original twist on an old one
*Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles as playable characters
*Homing attack as a shield ability
If I think of more I suppose I could edit them into this post. I'm waiting for more info on UbiArt myself. I can't wait to *maybe* use it!
Well, I can't paint, but the rest is very possible, although I'm not sure I like the idea of the Homing Attack creeping it's way in. Whatever happens though, I will make Sonic run through the signpost at the end of a level.
Rockman Zero, on 18 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:
I'd like to see some inspiration from the Sonic OVA for at least one or or two levels. I would also love to see Metal Robotnik/Black Eggman as a boss.
Instead of using sounds from the MegaDrive, I'd prefer if the music sounded like the Japanese soundtrack of Sonic CD—house music. Maybe a mix of MJ's style from the Dangeous era and house. Both of those styles fit Sonic so well.
Sonic OVA... Maybe. Maybe.
I agree on you about the sound, I'll wait to see what fits.
Dr. Felix, on 18 March 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:
Can it have a Werehog? :P Kidding. But, yeah, I agree. Try to put in some OVA throwbacks, maybe that scrapped level from Sonic CD.
Sonic OVA... Mentioned a bit now. It wasn't incredibly related, though.
jasonchrist, on 18 March 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:
For music, I'd go for the Sonic CD feel myself.
You have an entire back catalogue of awesome stuff from the Madchester/Hacienda scene and mid 90s eurodance to draw inspiration form... hell, even rip off if you want to.
Always been a big fan of your work, Sonica! If you want someone to help out with level design/layouts and concept art, I'd love to help out.
I like the Sonic CD feel a lot, I have a feeling that's where it's heading.
Thanks, also!
Caniad Bach, on 18 March 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:
AerosolSP, on 18 March 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:
*A brand new kind of special stage, or atleast an honest-to-good original twist on an old one
Oh God this! A new, truly innovative special stage. Perhaps a 3D race of some kind? Obstacles slow you down and you need to get [a] certain time to get the Chaos Emerald.
Machenstein, on 18 March 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:
Instead of the Homing Attack and Air Dash, I would prefer a retooled version of the Insta-Shield which makes Sonic bounce twice as high from enemies and monitors than he would from simply jumping on them. I would also put in a wall jump that behaves more like the one in Rayman Origins and less like Mighty's wall jump from Knuckles Chaotix.
Blivsey, on 18 March 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:
Black Squirrel, on 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
They gave Motobug the ability to turn. That was a good idea
Also, SpeedStarTMQ pretty much relayed what I was gonna say. Other than that, I posted a few words on the Homing Attack somewhere in the S4E2 thread.
I'll certainly have cleverer Badniks than the motobug. But I do love it, with it's little claws. Aww....
jasonchrist, on 18 March 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:
If you decide to include a new move, do it AFTER you've designed all the levels. That way it makes the move entirely optional, like the spin dash was in Sonic 2 and the elemental shields in Sonic 3.
Oh, and don't make it the homing attack.
I was thinking about this, and I won't make the moves required at all, this was a flaw in Sonic 4. Homing attack can die.
SpeedStarTMQ, on 18 March 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:
Just remember that any abilities you include must be totally unique. For example, bouncing higher is something that a bubble shield can achieve. Thinking about it, even wall jumping isn't very 'classic Sonic', because it replaces what would be Knuckles' climbing move and makes Sonic more of an ultimate character rather than the standard. I and a lot of people saw Sonic as an all round character rather than anything ultra special in all the classic and Advance games. He could run fast, even later had a few flips and special spins, but he couldn't glide, couldn't fly, couldn't swim, and relied on skill rather than 'cheating' moves.
To stay 'classic' without feeling like you're going in to the realms of a fan game, I personally would actually just bung all of his current attacks in for him (the spindash, the insta-shield and the super peel out), if you're not thinking of including the homing attack that is.
I was always going to include all the current ones, but have wall jump too. But perhaps I'll have a better idea by that time.
W.A.C., on 18 March 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:
-Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles should definitely be playable along with at least one other playable character, preferably Amy Rose.
-Sonic CD's musical style with some influences from S3&K's soundtrack would be badass. I wouldn't go in the route the actual Sonic 4 went in trying to severely limit themselves since that did not work out well at all. Hell, Generations had some great ideas as well when it came to how to approach Classic Sonic's music.
-Some of the Sonic screensaver art had some damn good ideas. [LINK]
-Sonic 1-3 and CD started off with a green level. While doing that for this version of Sonic 4 would be a safe move, feel free to take risks throughout the game when it comes to the type of levels in it. In other words, don't play it too safe. Experiment.
-Please give me the option to disable the time limit if you include it in the game.
Those are some ideas for now. I'll probably come up with more later.
Edit-
Please include Sonic's peel-out move from CD. That move is boss.
- Maybe they are. Maybe it's exactly that.
- Mmm-mmm.
- I've seen that, it's pretty good.
- I feel it has to. It just does.
- Possibly.
Machenstein, on 18 March 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:
SpeedStarTMQ, on 18 March 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:
Thinking about it, even wall jumping isn't very 'classic Sonic', because it replaces what would be Knuckles' climbing move and makes Sonic more of an ultimate character rather than the standard.
If you're thinking of Mega Man X's wall jump, I'd agree. What I would prescribe for Sonic would be a wall jump that's only useful in confined spaces such as in New Super Mario Bros. or Rayman Origins. Sonic would only be able to jump up walls if there is another wall right in front of it. Knuckles, on the other hand, wouldn't need another wall in close proximity in order to go up them. He would just climb up them as usual.
Also, if there is going to be a fourth playable character in this Sonic 4, I would recommend it be Espio. Not only can he walk up walls, but on ceilings as well. I'd also throw in his invisibility move from Heroes which would make him invulnerable to specific hazards. Just think of the different alternate routes that could be made with those abilities in mind.
I understand, I feel Amy is the more obvious choice, but perhaps I could experiment.
Solid SOAP, on 18 March 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:
The art style certainly looks cool thus far, but keep in mind that Sonic 4's art style (SEGA's, not yours) took a bit TOO many ideas from the classics. Make it a bit different in design, with different zone tropes and new approaches to classic ones. Don't simply make Emerald Hill Zone in HD, make it your own. It looks good otherwise, but keep that in mind.
Trust me, it's not Emerald Hill.
jasonchrist, on 18 March 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:
As I said earlier, forget about extra abilities for now. If you can come up with them later, great! But for now just focus on creating a game that Sonic can get through with simple running, rolling and jumping.
Yes, I just want a plan, so that I make sure everything will be possible from the start.
Kharen, on 18 March 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:
Here's my thoughts...
1: Each game steadily used a more elaborate art style than the previous. If your HD-looking picture is the actual art direction for the game, then you're doing great already. If the video you showed using Genesis Sonic sprites is the art direction, you're going to have to take care to make sure the artwork looks authentic as well as also being a logical next step for the series. (That made sense in my head, not sure if it came out right.)
2: Each game added new things to the Sonic formula. Sonic 1 set the basics: high speed, loops (not commonly used), momentum-based physics. Sonic CD (included because I'm fairly certain it was meant as a straight sequel instead of a spin-off) introduced the Spin Dash, Peel-Out (hasn't been seen again), and two new characters (Amy and Metal Sonic). Sonic 2 perfected the Spin Dash, and introduced Tails as a second playable character. Sonic 3/Knuckles introduced Zone transition cutscenes as well as a more elaborate storyline, a new playable character (Knuckles, duh), and unique abilities for each character.
As you can see, each game added new ideas to the Sonic formula and pruned out ideas that didn't seem to work. When an idea was accepted by the public as a good one, it was improved upon. An example of this would be the evolution of the Spin Dash from Sonic CD to Sonic 2, Tails going from a Sonic re-skin to having flight abilities, as well as the shield item evolving into the three elemental shields in S3&K. New abilities need to be balanced, though, to prevent a single character from breaking the game's difficulty as well as inadvertantly gaining access to character-specific areas (if you choose to go the S3&K multiple-character route) While the Homing Attack has been proposed as a new Sonic ability to introduce to the classic formula, I feel a more classic-feeling ability to be in order, such as the Peel-Out.
Like I mentioned earlier, bad ideas were pruned out from the Sonic series between games, and the Peel-Out never appeared outside of Sonic CD. I believe this to be because the move was generally useless: the Spin Dash served an identical function and also included near-invincibility with the exceptions of crushing, spikes, and pits. However, if you were to implement it more creatively and actually add it to the level design's considerations, it could serve as a fairly useful and unique ability that also makes sense in a canon standpoint. First off, the Peel-Out gave more speed than a Spin Dash. Slopes leading to a tall vertical wall could be areas only accessable with the additional speed the Peel-Out provides. A horizontal breakable barrier could serve as a deterrent for Tails/Knuckles if they're included, Tails being unable to break through using flight, and Knuckles being unable to utilize enough speed to break through if the player has him climb the wall leading to it. Canon-wise, it serves as a logical step between classic gameplay and Sonic developing his Boost ability seen in current games.
3: Chaos Emerald Special Stages always utilized whatever new programming technique Sonic Team learned to implement. Sonic 1 showed off a rotation technique which, if I remember correctly, was a big deal at the time. (The game came out the same year I was born, so I'm going off of things I read about the time). Mode 7 pseudo-3D was the latest thing when Sonic CD through S3&K were released, leading to the 3D used in their Special Stages. Try to keep in mind what system and techniques were available at the time period you're trying to imitate. If the games continued to be released at the same rate Sonic 1 through S3&K were released, I estimate that the Sega Saturn would have been the system the game was released on, so try to keep it's limitations in mind when you design your game.
Graphical styles should be taken into consideration as well. If the main game is going to be on the same level as the Genesis Sonic games, suddenly transitioning to a full 3D, Sonic R-looking Special Stage would be rather jarring. However, if you could keep in mind the graphical style used in Blue Sphere, I think that a well-working full 3D Special Stage could be a great idea to implement. Just make sure character and environment graphics are on-par with the standard level designs.
-----
I could add more, but my little siblings are bugging me for ice cream. If I think of anything that needs added, I'll either add a new post or edit this one. I hope I brought up at least something useful to think about.
I have considered everything you have written, but this is a long reply so I'll make a comment on the special stages. After Sonic 2, they became the 3D element of every Sonic game. I don't think this has to be the case, so while it probably will become a 3D stage, I will be thinking about ideas for 2D ones as well.
W.A.C., on 18 March 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:
Will this game be using vectors?
It's made as vector art, but in game it is simply images.
CorralSummer, on 18 March 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:
Spin dash was required in Sonic 3K (Lava Reef comes to mind. And Mushroom Hill makes you use it if you get caught in the vine trap.) I believe it was optional in Sonic 2 though, but I'm not sure.
To make this a real sequel you'll need.
-To keep the shields and abilities from Sonic 3 (Insta-Shield and all the shield abilities. Don't go back to the Sonic 1/2 shield like the official Sonic 4 did.)
-Sonic 1 had Sonic, Sonic 2 had Tails and Sonic, Sonic 3 had Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. Following that formula you'd have all those characters plus one more.
-Keep Sub-Bosses and act transitions.
-a unique 3D special stages. All the classic games had a unique special stage. And after Sonic 1 they were always in 3D. And they all had a unique way to get into them. (coming up with this would probably be hard. But that's just my opinion.)
-And an extra move for all the characters. If you can't think of anything that's unique and useful (but not required.) you could always use a variation of the super peel out, though you may want it to work differently than Sonic CD's, since we have the spin dash here super peel out won't be so useful if it'
s exactly the same. You'd want to give a good reason to use it rather than the spin dash.
___
Do that and I think it's a true sequel. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this.
I'll think about all this, thanks!
SpeedStarTMQ, on 19 March 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:
I didn't literally mean that playing as the other two characters is cheating, rather that it's much easier as them to plough through levels and find solutions to hard platforming sections. As a child f I knew I'd get stuck I'd always try playing as Knuckles or Tails, usually Knuckles because if I jumped down a pit, I knew I could just cling to the wall and climb back up.
The homing attack doesn't do much for Sonic in Sonic 4 because it mostly stops you dead and the level design requires it. If you look at my example of what the homing attack should be it'll give you a clearer idea of what I'd like to see.
It does seem a bit unfair on Sonic, doesn't it? I'll try and make it more even
Black Squirrel, on 19 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:
Blivsey, on 18 March 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:
Black Squirrel, on 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
They gave Motobug the ability to turn. That was a good idea
Yes but in order to do that they had to include Motobugs, I.e. rehash an enemy concept from 1991
which is not a good idea =P
Rightly said.
Jayextee, on 19 March 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:
What would Sonic 4 as I imagined it contain? (caution, my opinions are known to make people crazy with their absurdity)
ORIGINAL CONTENT. New badniks, new(ish) level tropes, new music, new ideas.
A greater gap between character's abilities. I loved Knuckles having a 'heavier' (smaller) jump in S&K, I'd take it further. Also, since Tails' tails can attack whilst he's [s]willyhelicoptering, weaken his jump? I don't know, experiment.
Time attack and score attack and whatever modes to keep me playing. But then, I still play Sonic 1, so...
Shorter levels than S3K, just more of them. I'd rather see a follow-up to S2 in this regard personally.
Surreal art style. The more out-there, the better.
Colours, motherfucker. Yeah, I loves some colours.
Platforming. Scale back S3K's rollercoaster sections and vary the pace a bit more like S1 does.
ORIGINAL CONTENT. This is important
This is just me though; I like S1 and S2 the most. I know a lot of people here want S3K++ and I'd like to bash their face in until naught is left but a greasy red smear on the tarmac outside. But hey, whatever floats your boat guys.
All of this, I was already thinking. You'll be happy.
Blivsey, on 19 March 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:
Personally, Sonic 4 as I imagined it does include the Homing Attack. It just needs to be refined, as we've been saying. And it needs to have good music. I don't even care if it emulates the classic style, it has to be GOOD. Sonic games are known for their catchy tunes.
Black Squirrel, on 19 March 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:
Blivsey, on 18 March 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:
Black Squirrel, on 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:
Most importantly you shouldn't listen to the actual Sonic 4 at all because not a single idea it put forward was good.
They gave Motobug the ability to turn. That was a good idea
Yes but in order to do that they had to include Motobugs, I.e. rehash an enemy concept from 1991
which is not a good idea =P
Hear that? Bringing back a fan-favorite baddie and improving it is a bad idea, SEGA.
BAAAAAD
Very Bad.
Anyway I'm sure I can come up with something more widely appreciated than the homing attack.
Ok, with all that, I have a fairly hectic understanding of what most people want. I'm sure I wont disappoint the larger half of you. The other half being the homing attack crew. ;D
EDIT: Ok, so, it might be an extra, but I don't think I will consider it any further than just 'adding' it.
This post has been edited by Sonica: 19 March 2012 - 11:15 AM
Some levels I would like to see in a Sonic 4 would be:
- A crumbling city in ruins overtaken by the ocean based on the 'Ancient Relics' from the Sonic OVA, with a sewer system along the bottom path.
- The sunken ruins of the S3K Death Egg with malfunctioned badniks.
- A pristine coastal zone.
- An abandoned mineshaft zone, with a mountainous troupe for the upper path.
- A 'Sega Megadrive Zone', Sonic is trapped in one by Eggman a one point in the game and goes through a level composed of classic Megadrive games (Echo the Dolphin, Space Harrier, Streets of Rage, etc.)
- A 'mechanized nature' troupe zone (Like Mecha Hill from Sonic Chaos)
As for characters moves give Sonic the wall jump and peel-out, Tails his tail swipe, and Knuckles his punch move. Amy as the fourth playable character would be nice, but she would need to have a reason/purpose in the story. Fang appearing as Knuckles rival would be nice and following formula I'd like to see a mrk.4 'Mechanized' Sonic too.
Story is also important and needs to be told through interactive cut scenes (Like the Knuckles encounters/Zone transitions/Hidden Palace in S3K) no boring walls of text (Rush Games) and no not having any story at all in game (S4E1).
However you decide to approach this game good luck! I look forward to seeing what you decide to create!
I don't understand why some people are so opposed to having a homing attack as a shield ability. With good badnik and level design, it would only amount to a cool extra, like the homing attack in Sadv2. Just my two cents
What would Sonic 4 as I imagined it contain? (caution, my opinions are known to make people crazy with their absurdity)
ORIGINAL CONTENT. New badniks, new(ish) level tropes, new music, new ideas.
A greater gap between character's abilities. I loved Knuckles having a 'heavier' (smaller) jump in S&K, I'd take it further. Also, since Tails' tails can attack whilst he's willyhelicoptering, weaken his jump? I don't know, experiment.
Time attack and score attack and whatever modes to keep me playing. But then, I still play Sonic 1, so...
Shorter levels than S3K, just more of them. I'd rather see a follow-up to S2 in this regard personally.
Surreal art style. The more out-there, the better.
Colours, motherfucker. Yeah, I loves some colours.
Platforming. Scale back S3K's rollercoaster sections and vary the pace a bit more like S1 does.
ORIGINAL CONTENT. This is important
This is just me though; I like S1 and S2 the most. I know a lot of people here want S3K++ and I'd like to bash their face in until naught is left but a greasy red smear on the tarmac outside. But hey, whatever floats your boat guys.
I can acknowledge everything that 3K brought to the table, and can recognize its case for being the best Sonic game ever. But I'm totally with you here, there's something about Sonic 1 and 2 that makes me love it that much more.
I don't think you have anything to worry about though, because Sonica is quite the fan of Sonic 1 I believe.
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SpeedStarTMQ, on 18 March 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:
