[Dark Sonic]

Puto, on 27 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I don't recall "Knuckles in Sonic 2" having any plot reason for existing, yet I don't see anyone complaining about THAT.

No, but I do recall someone complaining about Tails being put in Sonic CD 2011 for some odd reason.

[MastaSys]

Dark Sonic, on 27 February 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Puto, on 27 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I don't recall "Knuckles in Sonic 2" having any plot reason for existing, yet I don't see anyone complaining about THAT.

No, but I do recall someone complaining about Tails being put in Sonic CD 2011 for some odd reason.

I recall someone complaining stuff without any sensible reason.
If it's fun, then use it, plot be damned.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

Well obviously the plot has to be important- we can't just have a shitfest of different scenarios all randomly jumped to- that would be crap. However, if they just let characters be playable out of story that would be fine, like Tails in Sonic 2 or 3, and Knuckles in Sonic 2, and the most of the cast of Sonic Advance's games.

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 27 February 2012 - 04:25 PM

[Burnt Ash]

I think Sonic CD proved that characters can and should be playable even if they're not involved in the plot. And to be honest, Dark Sonic said it perfectly. It's not necessarily the characters that people hate, it's the alternate gameplay styles of the other characters that made people dislike them. But still, it's been six years. I think it may be time to take the next step and bring back those other characters, and improve upon then from what Sonic 06 left us.

[Ell678]

The problem is, throwing all the characters into a Sonic game is certainly possible but if it is a modern game you need to justify their existence and make it good. Sonic 06 did a shit job of that. Amy just seems to be there, Knuckles is a delivery boy who then decides to tag along and...Tails???

I don't give a fuck if the character roster in the next game is as obscure as Silver, Espio, Marine and Sonic. As long as there is a good reason for them being there and the gameplay is good.

[OSM]

Kogen, on 27 February 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Sonic's shittiest friend is Takashi Iizuka.

Bahahahaha

You know I do miss Tails tagging along with Sonic in levels, kind of weird they haven't figured out a way to make Tails work with the new engine yet.

[JohnBoyAdvance]

Ell678, on 27 February 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

The problem is, throwing all the characters into a Sonic game is certainly possible but if it is a modern game you need to justify their existence and make it good. Sonic 06 did a shit job of that. Amy just seems to be there, Knuckles is a delivery boy who then decides to tag along and...Tails???

I don't give a fuck if the character roster in the next game is as obscure as Silver, Espio, Marine and Sonic. As long as there is a good reason for them being there and the gameplay is good.

I don't think you need to justify their appearance in a game if they are playable. If they are appearing in the story then yeah. But you could have a "Free mode" where you played as other characters.

[Ayu Tsukimiya]

The shitty friends don't need to be much different from Sonic. Tails is slightly slower and can fly for a limited amount of time, Knuckles is slightly slower than Tails and can punch, climb and dig. Amy could be as fast as Tails and do cool shit with her hammer along with bashing shit with it.

[E-122-Psi]

Ayu Tsukimiya, on 28 February 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

The shitty friends don't need to be much different from Sonic. Tails is slightly slower and can fly for a limited amount of time, Knuckles is slightly slower than Tails and can punch, climb and dig. Amy could be as fast as Tails and do cool shit with her hammer along with bashing shit with it.

I'm mixed to this as I believe that, while there should maybe be some consistant mechanics between the cast, there should at least be some plausible gameplay differences to make their useage worthwhile. It's just finding a suiting balance so that it doesn't drift too far away, and of course, finding mechanics that don't suck.

I think a problem with 2006's shoehorning was not only the number of superfluous characters, but that you HAD to play as them all, you constantly switched between at least four characters, often midway through a level, no matter what story you chose. At this point the extra characters don't become an extra priveledge but a neccessity you must play as whether you want them or not, often breaking gameplay and not always suiting to particular player's preferences. I think that this played into a large reason as to why Sonic's friends started to become unpopular. Knuckles and Tails were big parts of their respective debut titles but at least they weren't forced in front of your face and you had the choice to try them out. The same can't be said for Shadow, Silver or Rouge.

[Caniad Bach]

While I would like the option of playing as a select few different characters providing their gameplay has something a little different to offer, or they're just a skin that's available when you beat the game, I think they should sort out Sonic first and work out from there. Personally, I'd like to see a Sonic where you gain the boost after various levels of speed (a bit like the All Stars Racing drift boost but when going forward), where only when running at full pelt can you destroy enemies while running, otherwise you have to roll into them as you go past.

[FuzzballFox]

Characters as skins would be interesting...Shadow for Sonic, Knuckles and Rouge etc...would play the same but look and sound different~

[Burnt Ash]

Well, the characters as skins would be interesting, but what about the design of the levels? Characters like Shadow, Metal, and Blaze could go through Sonic's high speed levels, but what about characters like Tails and Knuckles? The level design seems to be more horizontal rather than vertical, so I'd imagine it'd be difficult to integrate Tails and Knuckles in the current level design. But Sonic always changes, so maybe later, we'd get a 3D version of stages like Generations's Planet Wisp, and those types of levels would be perfect for Tails and Knuckles to utilize their abilities to their advantage. Tails can speed through the difficult ground work, by flying through the air and finding new paths, or just using his flying abilities to finish the level faster than Sonic (kind of like what he did in Sonic Adventure), and Knuckles could use his climbing abilities to gain advantages similar to the advantages Tails has with his flying. In terms of Tails and Knuckles, there's my two cents. Thoughts?

[Ayu Tsukimiya]

E-122-Psi, on 28 February 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I think a problem with 2006's shoehorning was not only the number of superfluous characters, but that you HAD to play as them all, you constantly switched between at least four characters, often midway through a level, no matter what story you chose. At this point the extra characters don't become an extra priveledge but a neccessity you must play as whether you want them or not, often breaking gameplay and not always suiting to particular player's preferences. I think that this played into a large reason as to why Sonic's friends started to become unpopular. Knuckles and Tails were big parts of their respective debut titles but at least they weren't forced in front of your face and you had the choice to try them out. The same can't be said for Shadow, Silver or Rouge.

They could always do what Rush did, just make give the player the option to choose the character before the level starts. As for the plot, Tails in there because he's Sonic's best friend, Amy is there because she's a stalker, and Knuckles either has master emerald shit to take care of or he just got dragged along against his will by Tails/Amy.

Burnt Ash, on 28 February 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Well, the characters as skins would be interesting, but what about the design of the levels? Characters like Shadow, Metal, and Blaze could go through Sonic's high speed levels, but what about characters like Tails and Knuckles? The level design seems to be more horizontal rather than vertical, so I'd imagine it'd be difficult to integrate Tails and Knuckles in the current level design. But Sonic always changes, so maybe later, we'd get a 3D version of stages like Generations's Planet Wisp, and those types of levels would be perfect for Tails and Knuckles to utilize their abilities to their advantage. Tails can speed through the difficult ground work, by flying through the air and finding new paths, or just using his flying abilities to finish the level faster than Sonic (kind of like what he did in Sonic Adventure), and Knuckles could use his climbing abilities to gain advantages similar to the advantages Tails has with his flying. In terms of Tails and Knuckles, there's my two cents. Thoughts?

Awesome. As long as they don't force players to go through only one route in the stage as certain characters, I'm all for it.

This post has been edited by Ayu Tsukimiya: 28 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

[Lobotomy]

You know what? I was going to post a completely different opinion on the matter, but I had an epiphany.

Most of us hate the majority Sonic's Shitty Friends™, or at least the a large percentage of the ones that came after Sonic Adventure. I happen to like very, very few of them (Tails, Knuckles, Honey the Cat, Mighty the Armadillo, Blaze and Silver sorta. That's it.)

You know how SEGA have said that they are always experimenting and changing the gameplay for the Sonic series, right? You know how they can do that without fucking up the series forever?

Spin-offs.

Oh wow, I just kinda turned you all off, didn't I? Well, shut the fuck up and listen because I have a good point to make.

Shadow the Hedgehog was a shittacular game, yes? Well, Knuckles Chaotix wasn't. Great soundtrack, great graphics, and an interesting and unique spin (pun not intended) on the Sonic Formula. Tails Adventure was pretty fun too, if a bit hard (Tails' walking animation in the game is fucking ADORABLE by the way.). Most of you haven't played this game, as I've come to realize, but it's worth a try, but by no means is it a game everyone's going to love. It plays almost nothing like a Sonic game, unlike the other two examples. Still, I thought it was a fun and unusual treasure of a game.


Spin-offs would be a way to experiment with the Sonic series without having a dud in the main series. Sure, not a whole lot of people would be interested in Vector the Crocodile: Crocin' and Rockin', but imagine the core gameplay of a game like this having what could be the next Sonic. All of these games would have a similar pacing and basic gameplay to what the Main series would get, should this game receive a halfway decent score from any reviewer that is not IGN, GameSpot or GameInformer.

This way, the only way we'd see the Shitty Friends™ would be in their own games. They wouldn't have to shit up main Sonic titles ever again.

Now I am aware that Sonic Team, or whoever would be churning these out would have to be VERY up front about this plan from the getgo, so as not to have reviewers think of this as just another shovelware title trying to capitalize off the Sonic name. But wouldn't this at least be better than having shit Sonic games? I mean, fuck, nobody would actually buy a Vector the Crocodile game. That was just a comedic example, but I would definitely buy a Silver the Hedgehog game, if they did psychokinesis right, and I would buy a Blaze the Cat game, since she's basically Sonic with fire. Blaze would be the purrfect (useentwutididdere) test bed for something like this, actually. Likewise for Mighty, should they bring him back.

Alternatively, they could do what Archie Comics did with Sonic Universe. Universe focuses less on Sonic, and more of the important characters around him, and whatever happens in this comic directly affects the main book. The latter part doesn't matter so much, but having a game revolving around characters that aren't Sonic would be kinda cool. Maybe Sonic has finally met his match, and his Shitty Friends™ have to pick up the slack and actually help him for once. Like Sonic Adventure but the differences between characters are more profound, but still contain the same basic Platforming that make Sonic games worth playing.

This is a pie-in-the-sky idea that would have course never happen, especially with the bad rap SEGA is only recently trying to shake off, but this was just in my mind.

This post has been edited by Lobotomy: 28 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

[SteelBrush]

I totally agree. If Sonic Team was split into two development teams, one producing spin-offs and the other working on Sonic games, it would allow SEGA to release a retail title each year, while the games got two years in development, it makes sense.