[MarkoMan]

Advance 2 just sucks, period. I put it down at the canyon level. I hated the boss fights because I thought they were all too hard and repetitive, I couldn't figure out how to get the emeralds, and I had to beat the game with Sonic just to unlock the chao garden. That canyon level is impossible as Sonic. And the characters were just unbalanced. Obviously Sonic wouldn't be anyone's first choice, but then again, he never was for me, but why be Tails when Cream can fly for longer and why even try to unlock Knuckles? He can't climb anymore so that's a - and you're better off with either Cream or Tails Cream. The only balance is that the easiest character gives you the worst reward and the hardest gives you the best, and that's a horrible balance considering you have to beat the game with all the emeralds with each character. They even messed up Tails and Knuckles in favor of Cream, Tails only flew for five seconds instead of 9/10 and I've already covered Knuckles.

The canyon level is impossible if you don't know how to use tricks. Granted, there actually is a path that you can use as Sonic without the use of tricks because I remember beating the game with Sonic before I learned what tricks were, but it's a rather specific path in both acts. Doing the tricks, however, change that entire game imo... you could say that the game is developed around them, but if you didn't read about them, you wouldn't know about them.

Knuckles can definitely climb in that game, I have no idea where you got that from.

If I remember correctly, Tails does fly for a longer period of time than Cream, but Cream flies not only faster, but with more control (such as the ability to end your flight with the press of the B button). And yes, Knuckles does climb walls.

[Volpino]

The canyon level is impossible if you don't know how to use tricks. Granted, there actually is a path that you can use as Sonic without the use of tricks because I remember beating the game with Sonic before I learned what tricks were, but it's a rather specific path in both acts. Doing the tricks, however, change that entire game imo... you could say that the game is developed around them, but if you didn't read about them, you wouldn't know about them.

I can believe this, I didn't know about them until recently, but then again I only skimmed the manual. The upside is that now I know what those sprites are on my sheets that looked unused. I think you can use tricks in Advance 3 as well, but it's not mandatory, and is never required if I remember...

Knuckles can definitely climb in that game, I have no idea where you got that from.

It's been some time since I played Advance 2, having lost the cart and never caring to pirate it. There was something he couldn't do and it annoyed me, I was pretty sure it was climbing. Now I might have to go download it to find out.

If I remember correctly, Tails does fly for a longer period of time than Cream, but Cream flies not only faster, but with more control (such as the ability to end your flight with the press of the B button). And yes, Knuckles does climb walls.

That's possible, it might have felt like Cream could fly for longer, and even looked like it when I counted the seconds, which might or might not be entirely accurate.

I suppose pointing out the failed logic in giving a creature that flaps more control than a character that uses rotating limbs as not making any sense is probably pointless, but whatever.

That's typically only if the Emeralds are already plot devices. They aren't in Advance 2 since you have to collect them, so it makes sense that you don't get Super Sonic until you collect them with Sonic.

It makes sense for Sonic to need to collect them to turn Super, but it didn't need to be that beating the game with the emeralds was the only way to unlock certain things. (Like the fucking chao garden and sound test.) My complaint here is that it was too hard to unlock everything because instead of just beating the game with a character, you had to do it with all the emeralds. The emeralds were originally used as a bonus for a God mode you earned in-game, I don't think they should be used for anything more, or anything different, and if they wanted to give a reward for collecting them with each character, it should have just been super forms regardless if it breaks continuity or not since it's been established the word is foreign to SEGA anyway and it would have been more fun.

I checked the wiki to see about how you get EGRs, and I was mistaken about having to beat the game with a specific character (though I thought the manual stated such), which slightly lessens my dislike of the unfair requirements for some things (and makes me want to go find the manual again) but anyway...

This post has been edited by Volpino: 05 November 2010 - 12:31 PM

[SuperSonicRider]

General - Awesome series. It had level art and physics inspired by the classics, but incorporated things such as the title screen, character art, and character movesets from the Adventure games.

Sonic Advance 1 - Loved it, am loving it, and will continue to love it. Unlike the latter two games in the series, getting into Special Stages wasn't extremely difficult and unlike its direct sequel, the Emeralds collected were shared between characters. However, I will agree that the characters accelerated very slowly (though the Spin Dash and Amy's little hop thing more or less circumvent this) and the level layouts in Angel Island Act 1 and Cosmic Angel were absolutely AGONIZING to deal with at times. For the other levels though, designs were close to perfect. They weren't too bare or too busy, and the bosses weren't hard to figure out, but at the same time, you had to think about how to reach their weak spots. 9.3/10.

Sonic Advance 2 - In terms of the basic engine, a step up from the 1st in a lot of ways. More attacks were implemented into characters' movesets such as the Bounce Attack, and most of the attacks from the previous game were simplified (ex. no longer had to multi-tap B for Sonic's slide). Additionally, it introduced ring-based acceleration, so as long as you managed to stay alive, you wouldn't have to go through levels so slowly. It also had many alternate paths which could be accessed with tricks. However, the level design managed to hurt these positive aspects slightly; it's just too bare. In contrast, I actually liked the bosses. They were pretty challenging and really put the MAN in EggMAN. (Yeah, cheesy joke I know. ) The only real challenge in the actual levels though is getting the Chaos Emeralds, which I honestly feel no need to explain... 7.5/10.

Sonic Advance 3 - Like Sonic Advance 2, but added the teamplay idea. I actually really liked this; it meant that you could play as a single character 4 different ways. I also thought it was cool that a ranking system was added. Contrarily, the level design was kind of funky to me; it was playable, but sometimes it felt like the game was trying to kill me. Bosses were... harder, to say the least. Special Stages were not as hard to get into as the previous game's, but were still pretty tough to access. 8.4/10.

By the way, there is not anything about the actual Special Stages in the 3 games I did not like; they were all fairly straightforward and simple to complete.

[E-122-Psi]

Even under the concept it's stats are somewhat different from Tails' I don't think Cream should have had his signiture move, at least not under the same activation and execution (Charmy also flies in Chaotix but his mechanics work far differently, enough to make it a whole different innovation). She also had a homing attack to overshadow Sonic (though it may have been different enough had the latter's not been dumbed down to the point of being near useless). Not only was she a game breaker it was due to being a mish mash of other character's signiture abilities.

[MarkoMan]

I don't think Cream breaks the game so much as Cream just makes overall casual gameplay easier. I still beat levels faster with Sonic, and check this out. Dude beat a number of bosses with Sonic faster than I ever could with Cream. wtflol

[Alphaman]

Sonic's dash ability of course allows him to beat some bosses (and stages as well, but that goes without saying) faster than Cream ever could. The invincibility of the bosses after being attack is the same, but the recovery of Cream's Chao attack is longer than it takes for a skilled player to rush towards the boss again and just jump onto his weak spot with Sonic. My record for the first boss was also done with Sonic, although I don't know the exact time as it was in regular gameplay (haven't unlocked boss attack mode yet). I think it was just below 10 seconds. Of course, some bosses are exceptions to this, as they are out of reach for quite some time with Sonic, whereas Cream still can shoot at 'em.

But unless you're speedrunning stages you know inside out, Cream makes things to much easier it's not even funny (actually, that's not true - the boss rush is pretty funny when playing as Cream whereas the bitchslap of doom is just pure ragefuel for me otherwise). Especially the last two stages are both a testament to Cream's superiority and the sometimes just puzzling stage design. About to switch gravity? Better hit B with Cream so your Chao will kill potentially awaiting enemies. You're Sonic? Unless you know where those enemies are gonna be waiting, you better have some rings ready in case you'll just helplessly drop into them.

However, the game is the most FUN with Sonic, since speedrunning stages is where the games excels, and he's tailor made for just that since he has a dash. Plus Sonic games always the most right when playing as Sonic (newsflash I guess).

This post has been edited by Alphaman: 09 November 2010 - 06:52 PM

[Eric Wright]

I never beat/finished any of the advance games.. but I got the furthest in Advance 1, struggled through most of 2, I remember nothing from Advance 3 except thinking it was fucking irritating. Never got through all of Rush, either.

Advance 1 was probably the most fun, for me... but it might just be the novelty of it in general... a new Sonic game... a new era for Sega... a new Game Boy. It was uncharted territory, so all of these things together kinda made the game maybe a little more significant than it necessarily really was. I still had fun with it, though... And most of the series had good music too, I just wish the GBA itself had clearer sound in general >_< I'd almost be willing to pay/commission someone like Tweaker or GeckoYamori to rearrange them in YM2612 lol

[Volpino]

I don't think Cream breaks the game so much as Cream just makes overall casual gameplay easier. I still beat levels faster with Sonic, and check this out. Dude beat a number of bosses with Sonic faster than I ever could with Cream. wtflol

She still makes Sonic and Tails look bad, which is why I don't like her. (I think a lot of Cream haters have that attitude, but that's an assumption.)

It's the equivalent of a bad fanfiction where you have a fan character that does the same thing as multiple other characters, overshadowing them, except it's made 10 times worse by the fact that this character is original and someone in SEGA's creative department had a brain fart. I honestly think some dipshit at DIMPS inserted their 5 year old's fan character in the game with no consideration for how it reflects on the other characters.

However, the game is the most FUN with Sonic, since speedrunning stages is where the games excels, and he's tailor made for just that since he has a dash. Plus Sonic games always the most right when playing as Sonic (newsflash I guess).

That's subjective, just pointing that out. Sonic's never my first choice when I want to play a Sonic game, but I do appreciate it when SEGA uses a balanced character lineup. (and by "balanced", I mean they use EXISTING characters to fill certain places instead of making up new ones for the sake of it, adding new ones for story plots others could fill, or putting two characters in the same game that do the same thing.)

This post has been edited by Volpino: 10 November 2010 - 03:54 PM

[sms skull leader]

Ah, the good old advance games. OK I'll give my tought on each one.

Sonic Advance 1: Personally this is what Sonic 4 should have been since not only did Dimps hit the nail on the most critical aspects such as physics, pinball mechanics and momentuim, but also carried out the tradition of introducing a "new" character who brings something new to the gameplay mechanics, being this time Amy Rose. Really fun game tough a little too short.

Still it had quite soe nice features, like fighting against the first bosses of both Sonic 1 & 2, Music from Dreams come True and my favorite little extra: Amy with maracas (which for some reasons reminds me of that pic of Knuckles Chaotix Soundtest menu)

Sonic Advance 2: Out of the three this is my least favorite. Mainly due to the way the levels are made with focus only on speed and almost no platforming. This one relies way too much on memorization of the whole levels plus the location of enemies and traps, tough it also requires a lot of precision in execution to get the best paths. Another aspect I did not like too much is how all boss battles are done by running, which can be annoying at times (unless you play with Cream). Perhaps another bad aspect is the mechanic to access the special stages, which become a nightmare when you realize that to unlock the last character you have to do it with all of them.

On the bright the game had an awesome soundtrack.

Sonic Advance 3: Out of the three this one is my favorite. I liked how there was more balance between the speed sections and the platforming ones, plus the Teram mechanic was quite innovative since not only did it define the skill set the Team leader would have but in a way it also dictated the difficulty level.

Even under the concept it's stats are somewhat different from Tails' I don't think Cream should have had his signiture move, at least not under the same activation and execution (Charmy also flies in Chaotix but his mechanics work far differently, enough to make it a whole different innovation). She also had a homing attack to overshadow Sonic (though it may have been different enough had the latter's not been dumbed down to the point of being near useless). Not only was she a game breaker it was due to being a mish mash of other character's signiture abilities.

In a way I agree here, however one of the problems in the 2-D Sonic games is that some of the recent characters don't really bring anything new to gameplay mechanics. The only time they tried something new was with Amy in Advance 1 and that was almost 9 years ago (Yeah, I know, I like that gameplay a lot and for that I blame you and your awesome hacks XD ), after that they just made characters like Blaze who basically are "reskins" that don't differ to much from Sonic and end up being redundant. Honestly altering some stats like speed cap or jump height no longer cut it.

Personally I prefer character who bring new & original ideas, however when one looks at it from the design point, there is really not much new stuff left to introduce without making the same mistake that happened in the 3-D games: not staying true to the core gameplay.

[Volpino]

Ah, the good old advance games. OK I'll give my tought on each one.

Sonic Advance 1: Personally this is what Sonic 4 should have been since not only did Dimps hit the nail on the most critical aspects such as physics, pinball mechanics and momentuim, but also carried out the tradition of introducing a "new" character who brings something new to the gameplay mechanics, being this time Amy Rose. Really fun game tough a little too short.

Still it had quite soe nice features, like fighting against the first bosses of both Sonic 1 & 2, Music from Dreams come True and my favorite little extra: Amy with maracas (which for some reasons reminds me of that pic of Knuckles Chaotix Soundtest menu)

Sonic Advance 2: Out of the three this is my least favorite. Mainly due to the way the levels are made with focus only on speed and almost no platforming. This one relies way too much on memorization of the whole levels plus the location of enemies and traps, tough it also requires a lot of precision in execution to get the best paths. Another aspect I did not like too much is how all boss battles are done by running, which can be annoying at times (unless you play with Cream). Perhaps another bad aspect is the mechanic to access the special stages, which become a nightmare when you realize that to unlock the last character you have to do it with all of them.

On the bright the game had an awesome soundtrack.

Sonic Advance 3: Out of the three this one is my favorite. I liked how there was more balance between the speed sections and the platforming ones, plus the Teram mechanic was quite innovative since not only did it define the skill set the Team leader would have but in a way it also dictated the difficulty level.

Even under the concept it's stats are somewhat different from Tails' I don't think Cream should have had his signiture move, at least not under the same activation and execution (Charmy also flies in Chaotix but his mechanics work far differently, enough to make it a whole different innovation). She also had a homing attack to overshadow Sonic (though it may have been different enough had the latter's not been dumbed down to the point of being near useless). Not only was she a game breaker it was due to being a mish mash of other character's signiture abilities.

In a way I agree here, however one of the problems in the 2-D Sonic games is that some of the recent characters don't really bring anything new to gameplay mechanics. The only time they tried something new was with Amy in Advance 1 and that was almost 9 years ago (Yeah, I know, I like that gameplay a lot and for that I blame you and your awesome hacks XD ), after that they just made characters like Blaze who basically are "reskins" that don't differ to much from Sonic and end up being redundant. Honestly altering some stats like speed cap or jump height no longer cut it.

Personally I prefer character who bring new & original ideas, however when one looks at it from the design point, there is really not much new stuff left to introduce without making the same mistake that happened in the 3-D games: not staying true to the core gameplay.

I agree with most of that, but Amy was introduced (as playable) in Sonic Adventure, so she really isn't that new, except to the 2D games, unless that's what you meant. She played pretty much the same way in Advance, without the power-ups.

[The KKM]

I still love the fight of Knuckles vs. Mecha Knuckles.

[Volpino]

I still love the fight of Knuckles vs. Mecha Knuckles.

About that Mecha Knuckles, does anyone else think he looks like the glitch character from Chaotix?

[Ashram]

I still love the fight of Knuckles vs. Mecha Knuckles.

About that Mecha Knuckles, does anyone else think he looks like the glitch character from Chaotix?

Not really, I think he's more of a nod to Sonic R.

[Dark Sonic]

I still love the fight of Knuckles vs. Mecha Knuckles.

About that Mecha Knuckles, does anyone else think he looks like the glitch character from Chaotix?

Not really, I think he's more of a nod to Sonic R.

I think he means more after when the initial purple shell breaks off Knuckles.

The pink color seems to be a nod to Sonic 3's Knuckles having that odd off pink color