[Shade]

It's funny. Back in the day I'd always watch the Sonic games get played through in bits and pieces at daycares and the like long before I actually got my own physical copy. So in a way, these video leaks are actually quite nostalgic for me :3

[tokumaru]

I was a pretty bad player when I was a kid, and it took me forever to get to the latter stages in Sonic games. So it was pretty common for me to see other people playing through them before I was able to. Because of that or not I don't think that watching the leaked videos is a big deal. I don't find it nostalgic though, because back then I used to be fascinated with what I was seeing, which is not the case now.

Also, I won't be able to play this game anytime soon. I'm not a gamer, and I don't have close gamer friends, which means I have no easy access to any of the platforms where this game is being released. Since I'll be stuck with watching videos anyway, the sooner the better I guess.

[Vinchenz]

I am extremely excited for this game. And even more so after seeing what's in store for Episode II.

It may not be exactly like the Genesis games, but fuck it. Those games were masterpieces because the time was right and everything fell into place. They were on a stroll... it's just too bad that they lost it.

However, I truly believe that Sonic 4 is the next best thing. And it will be fun.

[Aquaslash]

Because this game finally sees the long awaited return to form for Super Sonic, it is awesome. Forever and ever.

Will be buying on day one! Thought I hope it doesn't take forever for all the other episodes to come out.

[Mercury]

I, too, pretty much saw all the Sonic games through to the end before playing them myself, because I would watch my older siblings play them. So the leaked videos don't bother me much; in fact, just like the old days, it makes me itch to play the game all the more.

The trouble with Sonic 4 is largely the marketing. They trumped it up as "Project Needlemouse", and claimed it was an "all-new adventure", and speculation was bound to run wild. Then when they finally revealed what it was, they didn't back it up with enough footage of clever and interesting things to assuage the disappointment.

If it had been introduced as a Dimps-developed trip down memory lane in HD, I doubt there would have been as much rage and hate from some of us - certainly from myself. It would have been, 'Hey, that's cool! No boost? No lameass buddies? No fishing? Great!'

In fact, the leaked videos are exactly what the game needed, at least in my eyes. Now that I see all the cool stuff I'll be able to do in the game, I'm 10 times more excited about it.

Now that I've got a more positive outlook concerning Sonic 4, I'm not looking at the game wanting to hate it. Instead of trying to fit it in the "good" box, or the "bad" box, I can see that the game will have its share of both good and bad elements, and so far it looks like the good outweighs the bad. Certainly, after seeing the other 3 zones, the snide parody image I put on my blog no longer sums up how I feel about it.

In fact, the number of positive things I notice about Sonic 4 keeps increasing.

• The levels are nice and long. Sonic 3 & Knuckles prided themselves on big, expansive zones chock-full of goodies and things to do. Sonic 4's look to equal that, at least in most cases. Also, I like the return of 3 Acts. 2 has always felt too short to me (though I know Sonic 2's template is the most popular).
  
• The gimmicks are different depending on the act. In Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone, the spiked logs were only act 3. Recently, Sonic games have forgotten to space their gimmicks in such a way as to differentiate the character of the acts. But Sonic 4 breaks that annoying trend. (It may go too far with the minecart, granted. I don't think so though; it seems to be the spiritual successor to the Sky Chase concept.)
  
• It doesn't have Sonic Rush physics! I've seen some posts here saying how the physics are just as bad, but it's clearly not true. Now, I haven't played it, obviously, so I can't claim to know for sure, but from what can be seen, the biggest problems have been solved. Sonic no longer stops dead when you release the jump button, and he seems to gain speed properly when rolling. And I may also remind you that, physics aside, the core tenets of gameplay aren't Rush's, either. There's no grinding, boosting, idiotic spammy tricks, or stupid objects that pass by in a blur that you have to react to in a split-second. Sonic 4 is designed to be played with ONE BUTTON (which Iizuka even explicitly acknowledged). That is the core of Classic Sonic, and 180 degrees from Sonic Rush.
  
• The backgrounds are real zone backgrounds. How much of the Advances and Rushes were just a single image with a rail stretched in front of them? Now, we've got real, multi-plane background that scroll like Sonic 1 or Sonic CD. You can get a sense of place in the level, finally; something that Music Plant or Toy Kingdom sorely lacked.
  
• There are hardly ANY drops to doom. Hooray!
  
• Super Sonic. I mean, come on. Seeing him flying through Mad Gear made me smile like nothing in Unleashed could.
  
• Special Stage Spoiler: I like the Special Stage concept of collecting enough Rings to progress to the next portion of the maze. It's a cool way to combine the logic of both the Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 special stages together, and it's enough of a riff that they don't feel like a total ripoff of Sonic 1's. However, I think the background leaves a little to be desired. In Sonic 1, it was brilliant morphmation technique, and a motif that's unforgettable. The kaleidascope effect in Sonic 4 seems a little limp in comparison. They should have spazzed out with cool M. C. Escher designs - they missed their chance!

tl;dr: It's NOT Rush (and it's disingenuous to claim so); I've seen enough good points now to outweigh the bad, so I'm genuinely excited about Sonic 4. For the first time since Sonic Adventure 2, there's a console Sonic I won't be entirely writing off.

(Also, I hope the old Sonic 4 thread will come back in some shape or form. At least the part that chronicles the Badnik fanart submissions - those were fun times!)

[DalekSam]

Will be buying on day one! Thought I hope it doesn't take forever for all the other episodes to come out.

It sure is nice to see other people sharing the same sentiments as me! It's good to be positive about a game—the more the better.

Actually, I find this makes you enjoy the game more—I was hyped as fuck for Mega Man 10 and enjoyed every second of it. It's not the same feeling for Sonic 4, but hopefully the next few months will change.

[Lord Kanti]

So what did I miss?

Apparently, Episode 1 is a mash up of Sonic 2-like levels, and bosses, with a hint of Sonic 1.

So I'm guessing Episode 2 will be more like a mash up between Sonic 3 and Sonic n' Knuckles? Or more Sonic 2/1 mash-ups? I'm hoping for a re-vamped Hidden Palace from Sonic 2 Beta!

[Scartillery]

My opinion.
Doesn't look like Rush in any way shape or form. I do not see any resemblances....at all. Rush had poor momentum physics, this game has momentum physics, which aren't broken.
The jump looks a little off but not utterly terrible. I think that just claiming it as "Rush HD", is not really a good standpoint, as they don't simmilar, in the slightest.
I don't really see any justifications for saying that it has a shit engine. I haven't played it, so I don't know, and likeyhood is that hardly anyone else has, so they can't really comment on it. We shall see, when we shall see.
Art direction is fine in my opinion, lots of bright colours and varied level designs. If you don't like it, your taste is different to mine.
I don't think its OK to just judge the game as....ahem...."one of the worst games SEGA has shat out, because we have no way of knowing. The guy playing it seemed like a moron, who may have lacked skill in the 2D sidescrolling deal, so it may have made it look worse than it actually is (Trust me, I cam make the Mega Drive games look broken, thats how bad I am at them). However, this is just my opinion.

Take as is.

[Zallirog]

Well I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by all the nostalgia the levels we saw brought me. I still can't ignore some of the apparent problems with physics, such as, standing still on the side of a hill. However, I am hopeful that Sega will still be willing to listen to some of the criticisms here and in some other places to try to improve those kinds of things. Other than that I am looking forward to purchasing and playing Sonic 4 as soon as possible.

This post has been edited by Zallirog: 07 April 2010 - 04:15 AM

[TheKazeblade]

When what I can assume was the alpha build was leaked with Sonic in Splash Zone a while back, I have to say I was pretty nervous; it seemed that the physics were weird and floaty and while I cautiously had hope for the game, I was for the most part pessimistic. However, time has passed and I feel that Sega has definitely put a lot of work into making sure this game turns out good. I hold that this will be the beginning of Sonic's return to form.

[Spanner]

I personally think that while SEGA are trying to please the fanbase with a sequel that they've wanted for a long time, they fucked up badly with their concepts, level design and of course, the people involved in making this game.

From looking at the videos, it's generically the same shit you've seen with small twists. Every zone is a blatant rehash of an existing zone, in fact the game is entirely a rehash. This is not what you call Sonic the Hedgehog 4. In fact, the name is pretty stupid as well and it's only for publicity.

Sonic 4 has an unfortunate case of going backwards, not forwards. This doesn't feel like a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles at all, the level design is in a Sonic 2 style and so is the horrible drum samples used. The music isn't exactly good bar a few tracks and Jun Senoue wasn't really a good choice if all he was able to do was use the same horrible instruments over and over again. At least he used a lost track from Sonic 3D, I believe there's another one that hasn't been used yet, maybe it will be used in later episodes.

Sonic music did not use the same instruments in every track, this soundtrack seems to use the same stuff over and over again. Go listen to the classic soundtrack, it's different. If different instruments were used, then the tracks would probably sound better. In fact, I've imported a few songs from Sonic 4 to Sonic 1's music system and they sound better. I can't link them though, not until the real tracks are revealed by SEGA.

I need to criticise the level design, because there are just parts which are horrible. Dimps wanted to use a lot of their concepts used in Advance and Rush in this game and it clearly shows. Speed boosters in every zone is a Dimps thing and in the classic games, if a game had speed boosters, they were only in a few levels. Are speed boosters used to show how shitty the engine is? The engine is sloppy and wasn't exactly designed for stuff that isn't a Nintendo DS. Dimps just wanted to use existing concepts, some of them don't work. Simple.

Badniks returning may give some nostalgia, but the designs are shit. Paper-mache motobugs and Bubbles badniks with no spikes which are just used so the player is forced to use the homing attack? In fact, Bubbles was in every fucking zone according to the videos, with the real red ones making minor appearances. In Sonic 1, some badniks made appearances in more than one zone, but this is just absurd.

The bosses in this game are interesting, they may be rehashes, but they're different. However, they do look piss easy to defeat. I do think that the Eggmobiles used were too big though. Having a seperate act for the bosses weren't needed, another Dimps thing it seems, even though they had the bosses in a normal Act in Sonic Advance, but that was a long time ago. Also, E.G.G Station is pretty much Robotnik's Revenge, though there's no explanation on getting to space. Maybe the video didn't pick up on a transition used?

Finally, I think that not having a PC port is a bad idea. Why make a port for the iPhone or the N2 while you ignore another platform where people emulate previous games? Perhaps SEGA thought that their fanbase all had next-generation consoles, or they had a concern regarding piracy since it could be leaked out and easily played, regardless of any form of DRM present.

That's all I have to say right now. Later episodes need to be different from what we've seen here, and I still want a carnival-themed level featuring the barrel. Also, minibosses.

This post has been edited by SOTI: 07 April 2010 - 04:32 AM

[Oerg866]

What I like: Come on, it's Sonic 4, it's a fucking 2D sonic game. Why is everyone ballshappy about NSMB but breaks their balls off about what's wrong with Sonic 4?

What I dislike: The percussion - Whyyyyyyy in the love of god use these bad-as-ass-compressed Sonic 1 drums!? IS this supposed to be a 15 years delayed genesis game or a game released in 2010, god damnit. It's supposed to be a sequel, why not use, for instance, the S3(&K) drumkit? That was at least awesome. But no, go back another few years. What a joke.

Nintendo: NEW SUPER MARIO BROS.! Crowd: YEEEEAAAAAAH!!111
Sega: Sonic 4 Crowd: .... Crowd 1 (50%): YEAH ... Crowd 2 (50%): BOOOOOO

This post has been edited by Oerg866: 07 April 2010 - 04:44 AM

[Tweaker]

Before this gets any worse, could we avoid specifically targeting each others' opinions like in the above post? If he changes his opinion after playing the game, that's totally his decision; if he doesn't, just as well. There's no point in arguing the semantics when at the end of the day, the only opinion that should matter about the game is your own. Agree to disagree.

As for my opinion on the game.... well, I'm square in the middle at this point. From what I've seen of the game—I guess at this point, all of it—I can safely say the game is likely to, if nothing else, be pretty enjoyable to pick up and play. I've never been opposed to Sonic games in the reign of the original Advance and Pocket Adventure where nostalgia is the driving factor of the game; after all, both were fun games and played on familiar aspects of past titles to create an enjoyable and unique experience. The various levels seem to be competently designed for the most part and use familiar level formations and tropes to create a very solid Sonic experience, even if it's not a terribly original one. If nothing else, it's comparatively better than most other games released on the modern consoles in recent day. Depending on how you look at things, this is either saying a lot or not saying much at all. I'll leave it to your imagination to determine which one of them is the case.

My issue with the game remains the same issue I had with it since day one—I don't think the game should have been called Sonic 4. By calling the game Sonic 4, you introduce a whole new set of expectations and connotations for the game that, at least for me, cannot be reasonably achieved by developers currently under contract by SEGA as a company. When I see existing badniks and bosses used in the levels, it makes me think about how when I played Sonic 2 and 3 for the first time, my experience was distinctly different. I saw some familiar faces such as the bee and the fish, sure, but I was also faced with new enemies that challenged my expectations as I traversed through the level. Sonic 4 just throws things that I already knew at me, and it doesn't feel anywhere near as special or endearing. Sure, there's some new touches here and there, but from seeing the game played through I didn't feel as if they stood out enough to make a significant difference. That was among the many things that disappointed me about the game.

I will say, though, that seeing the game played through proper gave me a better idea of what to expect. It kind of feels like an above-average fan game with a budget in nature, if that makes any sense—a mixture of original material with a lot of existing material brought together in a way that is meant to present a new Sonic experience. It reminds me a lot of what my goals were with Megamix when I started it so many years ago; I wanted to take some of the better parts of all the classic games I liked so much and bring them together into a new game that I would enjoy. Sonic 4's game direction reminds me a lot of that, though I don't feel as if the context of the game's release and the expectations from official titles have made it anywhere near as universally accepted. Mind you, I'm not implying that Megamix is somehow more successful than Sonic 4; in fact, I disagree with making the comparison by principle. I'm just trying to gauge the reactions I've seen for Sonic 4 and Megamix side by side. Take it with a grain of salt if you so desire.

At the end of the day, I see a decent Sonic experience in Sonic 4, but I don't really see Sonic 4 in Sonic 4. Nothing about it seems to really innovate with the same kind of in-your-face attitude that the original trilogy managed to do to me. I will say that I was pretty impressed by Lost Labyrinth, though—in addition to being graphically stunning, it had a lot of really cool and interesting level elements and gimmicks that really stood out to me in a positive way. I just wish the rest of the game followed suit in that regard.

[Wombat Wallace]

While I will say I am quite disappointed with the game using pre-rendered 3D models as the sprites and how the camera seems ever so centered on Sonic, I am quite hyped for this one.

[HeartAttack]

Before this gets any worse, could we avoid specifically targeting each others' opinions like in the above post? If he changes his opinion after playing the game, that's totally his decision; if he doesn't, just as well. There's no point in arguing the semantics when at the end of the day, the only opinion that should matter about the game is your own. Agree to disagree.

Sounds good. Edited my post. Sorry about that. I'm gonna send you a PM.