[Hayate]

After several hours of thoroughly working through the disasm, Amy no longer crashes Hidden Palace Zone:

bat wings?

Thus, SSZ and DEZ are now accessible. However because I rewrote the hammer code again (to cope for new attack sprites), enemies and bosses that haven't been fixed yet can only be hit while you're flashing from being hit yourself, which isn't very helpful. So far a scattering of enemies have been fixed (mainly objects that glitched up or crashed the game before they were fixed, which were already done in previously released versions), along with all the bosses up to and including LBZ.

Oh, and she still crashes the slot machine bonus stage, just so I don't get another dozen replies asking about that.

This post has been edited by Hayate: 16 November 2010 - 03:01 PM

[E-122-Psi]

Thus, SSZ and DEZ are now accessible. However because I rewrote the hammer code again (to cope for new attack sprites), enemies and bosses that haven't been fixed yet can only be hit while you're flashing from being hit yourself, which isn't very helpful. So far a scattering of enemies have been fixed (mainly objects that glitched up or crashed the game before they were fixed, which were already done in previously released versions), along with all the bosses up to and including LBZ.

Hope I haven't caused too many complications with the new sprites.

Progress is looking good though.

[Hayate]

Hope I haven't caused too many complications with the new sprites.

Nah - the old air attack animation was terrible. :\
Much better with the new one, also, those objects that have been fixed are now much easier to hit than they were with the old code.

On the subject of sprites though, I could do with some new ones for crouching, hanging off objects like the AIZ vine, and holding onto poles like those in HCZ.

[Tokkan]

Hope I haven't caused too many complications with the new sprites.

Nah - the old air attack animation was terrible. :\
Much better with the new one, also, those objects that have been fixed are now much easier to hit than they were with the old code.

On the subject of sprites though, I could do with some new ones for crouching, hanging off objects like the AIZ vine, and holding onto poles like those in HCZ.

Weren't those last two made back in June? Though to be fair, they were posted after you started your break from working on this.

More Amy sprites:



Tried the new revision, works well, nice to see my sprites in action too. My only complaint is her full-speed animation, there is meant to be a slight pixel tall bounce between frames, as shown on the sheet, hense why the hammer looks like it is wobbling. I know some people are iffy about this however so I understand if you didn't want to animate it that way.

Amy seems able to get to IceCap normally before getting stuck on the loop plugs. Also you may want to activate a move to detach some ring-depleting badnik attacks off you (eg. the pirahnas in Hydrocity).

This post has been edited by Tokkan: 17 November 2010 - 04:37 AM

[Hayate]

...lol

Thanks for the heads up. Psi PMed three lots of sprites to me during the break, so I just checked the PMs and forgot that he might have posted them in the thread.

I'll be putting those in now.

And by "crouching", I meant pushing, which conveniently is also in that image! No idea why I wrote crouching.

EDIT:

Progress update:
- Amy's braking, pushing and hanging vertically/horizontally sprites added in.
- Changed underwater palette loading code so that Knuckles gets the correct palette if you play as Knuckles+Tails. Also added an underwater palette for Amy.
- Fixed that godawful bug that stopped the Death Egg data from being loaded in LBZ2 causing Sonic/Tails to fall to their death when trying to fight the laser columns boss.
-- (This was actually caused when I did something with the DSR code a long time ago - I had inadvertantly mislabeled the DSRs for FBZ, ICZ and LBZ, and the execution LBZ's DSR was suppressed. Now it executes the DSR correctly.)
- Brought back Tiddles' no-music-after-results-screen for this act only (so that the epic final boss music continues)

This post has been edited by Hayate: 17 November 2010 - 09:40 AM

[E-122-Psi]

Hope I haven't caused too many complications with the new sprites.

Nah - the old air attack animation was terrible. :\
Much better with the new one, also, those objects that have been fixed are now much easier to hit than they were with the old code.

On the subject of sprites though, I could do with some new ones for crouching, hanging off objects like the AIZ vine, and holding onto poles like those in HCZ.

Glad to know the new sprites are actually helping with the effeciency of the gameplay. :D

Yeah as stated most of those sprites were made, though not the Hydrocity ones yet, I'll probably get those made for next upload.

I'm not sure if this has been asked before Hayate, but couldn't an extra move for Amy be added with an Up and A/B/C combo (about the one free button mechanic)? I'm not sure how much you want to add to Amy's movelist but I could see another ability to add to her manueverability (eg. upward dash or hammer jump) helping her access more of the levels without needing to completely redesign them (without a proper accelleration move she can't really get past IceCap normally, though I don't know if this has been edited since last release).

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 17 November 2010 - 11:20 AM

[Hayate]

Amy can get through Ice Cap fine. You take Knuckles' path in act 1 (AFAIK, there is no way to get into Sonic's path because of her lack of spindash). In Act 2, you continue along Knuckles' path. The only problem is that if you die, the game sends her onto Sonic's route where you then struggle to get past a loop (possible but extremely difficult), which is a bug which will be fixed in due course.

If Amy can't get through a level I will edit the level to let her - see Hydrocity. I'm not adding any spindash-esque move because that would just make her more like the other characters, when she's supposed to be different. If you want an instant acceleration move, choose a different character. I'm also not adding any higher jump move because her normal jump is already much higher than Sonic's.

Glad to know the new sprites are actually helping with the effeciency of the gameplay. :D

Actually this is unintentional. Currently my process for fixing objects is this:

- is there a jsr LoadObjDat3 anywhere? (so far most objects I've looked at have had one)
- if so, replace it with jsr LoadObjDat3a
- otherwise, ignore it and fix it later

Which basically sets the collision box to 16x16 less than the sprite bounding box, which is actually MUCH bigger than it needs to be. I'm only doing this so that Amy can get through the damn game. Eventually every object will need to have its own custom set collision box which will make it so that Amy can't attack them from miles away while facing in the wrong direction like she can now - but that can't be done without making the code longer, which means having to relocate things, which is annoying, which is why I'm leaving it until later.

[E-122-Psi]

Amy can get through Ice Cap fine. You take Knuckles' path in act 1 (AFAIK, there is no way to get into Sonic's path because of her lack of spindash). In Act 2, you continue along Knuckles' path. The only problem is that if you die, the game sends her onto Sonic's route where you then struggle to get past a loop (possible but extremely difficult), which is a bug which will be fixed in due course.

If Amy can't get through a level I will edit the level to let her - see Hydrocity. I'm not adding any spindash-esque move because that would just make her more like the other characters, when she's supposed to be different. If you want an instant acceleration move, choose a different character. I'm also not adding any higher jump move because her normal jump is already much higher than Sonic's.

Glad to know the new sprites are actually helping with the effeciency of the gameplay. :D

Actually this is unintentional. Currently my process for fixing objects is this:

- is there a jsr LoadObjDat3 anywhere? (so far most objects I've looked at have had one)
- if so, replace it with jsr LoadObjDat3a
- otherwise, ignore it and fix it later

Which basically sets the collision box to 16x16 less than the sprite bounding box, which is actually MUCH bigger than it needs to be. I'm only doing this so that Amy can get through the damn game. Eventually every object will need to have its own custom set collision box which will make it so that Amy can't attack them from miles away while facing in the wrong direction like she can now - but that can't be done without making the code longer, which means having to relocate things, which is annoying, which is why I'm leaving it until later.

How about the leap move? A move that gives her a boost but has enough variation from the spin dash how it works? If not though I get what you mean, it's nice to have a character that's different (ie. not 'Sonic but with lots more abilities') it's just a suggestion since Amy can be a bit tedius to work with in places since, unlike Sonic 1 the level design and pacing of the game isn't really designed to work without some sort of assistance in acceleration, which may require A WHOLE LOT of editing to fix up.

Ah okay then. Well some objects were a bit too precise to attack with Amy's moves initially (I die numerous times trying to hit the Death Egg final boss) so a larger radius would help a bit anyway.

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 17 November 2010 - 08:54 PM

[Hayate]

How about the leap move?

I vaguely remember using it and the hammer jump together on a 90 degree curve for something useful, but I don't see why it would help in S3Cz. Maybe it would be a useful addition if she didn't have the high jump.
In any case, it doesn't act at all like the spindash, because she doesn't actually gain any momentum from it, only moves forward a bit.

Amy can be a bit tedius to work with in places since, unlike Sonic 1 the level design and pacing of the game isn't really designed to work without some sort of assistance in acceleration, which may require A WHOLE LOT of editing to fix up.

A whole lot? Um, no. So far I know for a fact that I can complete up to and including the whole of LBZ as Amy, and I've only had to make edits to Hydrocity 1's boss and transition.

(I die numerous times trying to hit the Death Egg final boss)

Which one, the DEZ2 boss, the fingers boss or the laser boss?
You said final so I guess you're talking about the laser boss... and yeah it is quite difficult but then again I remember it being just as difficult as Sonic and even worse with Tails due to no instashield.
Fingers boss is easy, just attack from the ground not from the air.
DEZ2 boss I can see being harder because of not being able to spindash through the spikey things (do these have a name?)

[Tokkan]

I vaguely remember using it and the hammer jump together on a 90 degree curve for something useful, but I don't see why it would help in S3Cz. Maybe it would be a useful addition if she didn't have the high jump.
In any case, it doesn't act at all like the spindash, because she doesn't actually gain any momentum from it, only moves forward a bit.

That's actually incorrect. In Sonic Advance 1, if you perform the leap and then start holding forward you gain a good deal of momentum and when used on flat ground it allows you to reach running speed instantaneously. The downside of the leap compared to her peelout in Sonic Advance 3 and her spin dash in Sonic Advance 2 (and Sonic Advance 3 when paired with Sonic) is that it's not as efficient as they are.

This post has been edited by Tokkan: 18 November 2010 - 06:23 AM

[Hayate]

Eh, fair enough. It's been too long since I played Advance anyway, though for some reason I remember it not doing that =\

[E-122-Psi]

Yeah basically that (though I admit I boosted the leap move a little for my hack to make it a little more effective). I just thought it might be a bit useful for maintaining the speed and manueverability of the original gameplay a tiny bit more, the higher jump is a plus but even with that Amy seems significantly weaker and more fiddly to roam with (while some characters can be more advanced to control, I like the idea of each character having an equal amount of pros and cons at the end of it all, hense maybe why I wasn't big on how they treated Sonic in this game).

It was the fingers boss, yeah I kept trying to jump attack him. I would advise keeping a larger radius however, having the jump attack ineffective against it seems a little jammy (especially since you start with 0 rings meaning instant death).

[Hayate]

I like the idea of each character having an equal amount of pros and cons at the end of it all, hense maybe why I wasn't big on how they treated Sonic in this game

That's entirely subjective. Personally I find Sonic's ability to use the instashield and shield moves is extremely useful, which means he's actually far better than Tails and Knuckles IMO. I find Amy's high jump and instant stop (from doing a ground attack) similarly useful.

It was the fingers boss, yeah I kept trying to jump attack him. I would advise keeping a larger radius however, having the jump attack ineffective against it seems a little jammy

I'm not sure whether 1.2.2 has the redone hammer code - but in either case the collision size is likely smaller than it's intended to be, so just wait til I get around to fixing those finger objects individually.

(especially since you start with 0 rings meaning instant death).

Only if you access it from the level select or have already died once during the fight.

[E-122-Psi]

I like the idea of each character having an equal amount of pros and cons at the end of it all, hense maybe why I wasn't big on how they treated Sonic in this game

That's entirely subjective. Personally I find Sonic's ability to use the instashield and shield moves is extremely useful, which means he's actually far better than Tails and Knuckles IMO. I find Amy's high jump and instant stop (from doing a ground attack) similarly useful.

Sonic didn't seem as manueverable as Tails and Knuckles, he couldn't obtain the same shortcuts and hidden easter eggs the other two could, Knuckles admitedly had low jump but that only really came as a problem in a handful of deliberately placed areas, with glide and climb often more than making up for it. The shield moves had some benefit but even then it was random when you got them and which one you obtained and one hit and it was gone.

Admitedly one of Amy's key advantages was the use of both her instant stop and the leap, allowing her to stop on slopes and hop up them. Come to think of it, would it perhaps be worth inserting instant duck with the down button (like in Advance 1)?

It was the fingers boss, yeah I kept trying to jump attack him. I would advise keeping a larger radius however, having the jump attack ineffective against it seems a little jammy

I'm not sure whether 1.2.2 has the redone hammer code - but in either case the collision size is likely smaller than it's intended to be, so just wait til I get around to fixing those finger objects individually.

(especially since you start with 0 rings meaning instant death).

Only if you access it from the level select or have already died once during the fight.

Which would happen a lot in the case of Amy for aforementioned reasons, though if said collision problem is true then maybe this will be moot point.

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 18 November 2010 - 07:09 PM

[DEM GREEN EYES.]

hi, I've been monitering this thread and hack for about two months now, and I have to say it's pretty damn neat. take my favourite classic sonic game and expand upon it in a fashion like this and hell, if you were (legally) charging for it I'd take 20 copies.

I commend you for using the post-adventure design for her - it helps her stand out more and more or less makes her look less like a pink sonic in a dress. (however, e-122-psi, I've also been playing your hack of sonic 2 with amy in it, and the sprites used there suit it well - but, sonic got new sprites in 3, so this works for amy in a way too). in the version I've been playing I have a bit of trouble placing attacks, but apparently according to past posts you're working on that.

I had a couple of problems I've been writing down and making sure they hadn't been brought up in the thread already, but I've lost the paper for now - perhaps it will turn up. I'll see if I can post it later this week, along with something else...

however, these are the issues I remember the most -

-the gravity lifts in CNZ seem to need encouragement to lift her through them.



you can hang in one of these without it shooting you through it until you move away and jump towards it.


the latter two aren't really problems, but they are irks that get to me.

- while you have made a brilliant midboss for HCZ1 for amy, I can't help but think the walk out to the area with the starpost and the suicide shark missles feels... empty.



I know this was done to make her able to continue to progress through the level, but you miss a sizeable hunk of the second act through this. is there anything you could do to fill in this rather empty area?

- the corkblock in the loop towards the beggining of ICZ2 should be removed - in my opinion. for someone who knows alot about this game, I actually had no idea about the lower path you could take with the giant ring in it, but it sort of feels like you're forcing us to use a secret. it's kind of annoying.

This post has been edited by DEM GREEN EYES.: 21 November 2010 - 11:52 PM