[RockRedGenesis]

While some here might agree that Sonic Unleashed was an improvement over Sonic '06, it still wasn't everything anyone hoped.

My question is do everyone is, do you think Sega should outsource the next mainstream Sonic title to a third-party developer instead of making in house?

I personally think that they should at least give it a try, have someone with some fresh ideas head up the team from an independent studio, because Sonic Chronicles was done by Bioware, who created prehaps one of the best Star Wars RPGs, Knights of the Old Republic. While I think Chroncles suck like a windbag, it did have some good idea and those should be expanded on for the next title.

[El Gran Gordo]

Arguably, this already happened with the Wii version of Unleashed, which I believe was developed by Dimps, containing completely different stages than the Sonic Team-produced 360/PS3 version, albeit with the same plot and "themes" to said stages.

Having not played it, I can't speak for the quality of the game, however.

This post has been edited by El Gran Gordo: 23 August 2009 - 01:12 AM

[RockRedGenesis]

Should have remembered Dimps doing some Sonic titles including a version of Unleashed, but does anyone here think the next game should be handled entirely by a 3rd party, and Sega should just publish it? No Sonic Team, or Sonic Team in an adversary role. to allow for some fresh perspective and ideas on the franchise.

[Kurosan]

Ehh... Hard to say, really. Sometimes it's so disconcerting to see what Sonic Team / SEGA does with the games that I'd rather see someone else give it a try, but then that doesn't mean that they'd do any better, really. A third party may introduce stuff that REALLY doesn't fit Sonic's universe (more so than some of them stuff that SEGA introduces).

[GT Koopa]

"IF IT IS THIRD PARTY, IT MUST BE GOOD"

That isn't always the case.

"THEN LET SONIC TEAM/SEGA JUST PUBLISH IT"

Isn't that what happened with the Sonic 1 GBA port?

[RockRedGenesis]

Ehh... Hard to say, really. Sometimes it's so disconcerting to see what Sonic Team / SEGA does with the games that I'd rather see someone else give it a try, but then that doesn't mean that they'd do any better, really. A third party may introduce stuff that REALLY doesn't fit Sonic's universe (more so than some of them stuff that SEGA introduces).

True. But there is a good chance they may do something Sega hasn't done in a long time, and create a good sonic game, that people want to play. Sega have taken several steps back in recent years, but they have taken one forward with Unleashed. Giving it to an outside team might be another step forward the series needs.

"IF IT IS THIRD PARTY, IT MUST BE GOOD"

That isn't always the case.

"THEN LET SONIC TEAM/SEGA JUST PUBLISH IT"

Isn't that what happened with the Sonic 1 GBA port?

And look what Sonic Team/Sega did to a classic!

This post has been edited by RockRedGenesis: 23 August 2009 - 02:05 AM

[GT Koopa]

To any of you that don't get it, I mean that it was outsourced and they did a crappy job. However, now everyone thinks it is Sonic Team/Sega who coded it, and are treated as such. "Man, that Sonic Team can't even code their own original game right! I have lost all hope in them, even more so that the 50 other times I have said it." In truth, they should just be slapped on the wrist for making the decision and for making a quick buck with a shoddy final product.

[RockRedGenesis]

To any of you that don't get it, I mean that it was outsourced and they did a crappy job. However, now everyone thinks it is Sonic Team/Sega who coded it, and are treated as such. "Man, that Sonic Team can't even code their own original game right! I have lost all hope in them, even more so that the 50 other times I have said it." In truth, they should just be slapped on the wrist for making the decision and for making a quick buck with a shoddy final product.

I got this from Sonic Retro's own wiki page

Fast Facts on Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis
Publisher: Sega
Developer: Sonic Team
System(s): Game Boy Advance
Released in US: Nov. 14, 2006
Genre: 2D Platformer

So either I'm wrong or this sites wiki is wrong. and to me Sonic 1 Genesis was internaly developed and published, but yes I agree is was a crappy effort and a disservice to a classic game

[BlazeHedgehog]

Third parties are not the solution.

Sonic Team just has a penchant for doing things a certain way these days. From a design perspective, Sonic Unleashed is a game that's almost fighting against itself. It is trying to distance itself from the "Sonic Adventure" formula while at the same time being forced to include elements of it.

I mean, really, sit down and think about the mechanics in Unleashed. There are innumerable subtle and not-so-subtle changes to everything from core game mechanics to just visual elements. There are no invincibility or speed shoes power-ups. There aren't any item boxes at all, actually - 1ups are floating icons and "10 ring" bonuses are just giant rings with a "10" floating in the center of them. Sonic does not physically drop rings anymore, he just loses an unrecoverable percentage of them when he takes damage. Every button on the controller is used for something.

Somebody at Sonic Team actually seemed to know what they were doing for a change, basically.

But you get the impression that they had created all of the daytime levels way before they implemented The Werehog or Towns or any of that stuff. The Daytime Sonic stages are the most polished things out of the entire game. You get the feeling that all of the Sonic Adventure-y "typical Sonic Team Bullshit" was introduced much later in development, and as always, did not receive the correct amount of polish needed to bring it up to standard.

Unsurprisingly, those elements are also at the top of everybody's list for "What I hate about Sonic Unleashed". It was almost like they were afraid to stray too far from the norm - that Sonic Unleashed was going to be too different. Since they apparently needed more content to pad out the length of the game, they killed two birds with one stone.

The prevailing comment since then has been "If they made a game that was just the daytime Sonic levels, it would be perfect." Obviously, not everybody shares that opinion (for a variety of reasons), but I'd be willing to argue that the public at large (I.e. people who aren't uptight Sonic fans) would agree on that.

Basically, whoever was responsible for the design of daytime Sonic should be given a little more free reign to do as he pleases.

[Mercury]

Yuji Naka, Naoto Ohshima, Hirokazu Yasuhara, Rieko Kodama, Masato Nakamura, Yasushi Yamaguchi. None of these people from the original Sonic Team work on Sonic games anymore. In a sense, all Sonic games have been by a "third party" in recent years. If Yoshihisa Hashimoto has really left Sega, they'll be getting yet a new director anyway. Someone new from Sega versus someone new from !Sega - it's all the same really.

That said, if the third party was the Klonoa team, I'd vote yes.

[DimensionWarped]

I'm currently dealing with two axioms.

1) SEGA won't make a good Sonic game
2) Not SEGA might not make a good Sonic game

Given those two axioms, I'm going to choose the path of best means and go with the third party option. In fact, I'd say I'd go with a 3rd party regardless of who that 3rd party would be just because I'm sick of the status quo.

Of course, you all probably know by now that I have no love for Sonic Unleashed, nighttime or daytime. If not appreciating the finer points of boring rehashed crap, only in 2D makes me uptight, I'm willing to live with that.

This post has been edited by DimensionWarped: 23 August 2009 - 04:04 AM

[Graxer]

I quite like Unleashed how it was, Werehog and all!

However I wouldn't mind if they asked Miyamoto to do it. The Mario and Zelda series are constantly great after all (except when Philips got their hands on them), sticking closely to their classic roots. I feel Miyamoto could do the same for Sonic. This would probably be best if it was the proper Mario & Sonic crossover many people want. I just hope that if there is a proper Mario and Sonic crossover it will still reach the 360/PS3 and not just the Wii and DS. (I have a Wii and DS anyway though)

[DimensionWarped]

Whats good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. Miyamoto has always been pretty conservative when it comes to mechanics, preferring to take something that is already good and improve on it... What Sonic needs to be relevant again is a revolution. And I don't mean motion controls.

[Kurosan]

I just hope that if there is a proper Mario and Sonic crossover it will still reach the 360/PS3 and not just the Wii and DS. (I have a Wii and DS anyway though)

No, that just wouldn't happen. Knowing SEGA, they might try and rehash the game by using only the Sonic part of the game for multi-console releases (and obviously fuck up, because doing that would be retarded). If Mario's in it though, it simply won't happen; that's how things work.

Whats good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. Miyamoto has always been pretty conservative when it comes to mechanics, preferring to take something that is already good and improve on it... What Sonic needs to be relevant again is a revolution. And I don't mean motion controls.

I disagree. Trying something new and attempting a "revolution" is precisely what they've been doing with practically every single game to have come out since 2003's Sonic Heroes up until now, and look where that leads them. If instead they just went back to the Adventure formula and did precisely what you mentioned, taking something that's already good and improving on it, then we could have something good. So long as they actually FINISH it, that is, otherwise what we get is a little something called "Sonic the Hedgehog".

This post has been edited by Kurosan: 23 August 2009 - 04:29 AM

[DimensionWarped]

I'm sorry, but if the same old homing attacks and grinds and generally the same crap they've been doing since Sonic Heroes is an attempt at revolution, then I must be sorely mistaken in what the word revolution means.

And by the by, just bringing Sonic into the realm of 3D would be a revolution. That is to say, if it were the Sonic I remember where concepts like momentum in platforming ruled over every aspect of the design (and no, Sonic Adventure didn't succeed in that either). It doesn't have to be completely new, it just can't be now.

This post has been edited by DimensionWarped: 23 August 2009 - 04:33 AM