[Phoenix]

Exactly, although that post was just for the people that were pulling for an end-of-act special stage. Just in case.

[muteKi]

I should note that I have nothing against having the bosses and minibosses outside of other acts. I mean, this way one can get a decent rank on performance in the level and not have to be worrying about minibosses and the like. If we add a challenge mode where the player has to, say, hold on to at least 50 rings at the level end that's another reason not to have the miniboss be part of the act.

I'd say the same for bosses, especially if we want to make them rather elaborate.

[Phoenix]

muteKi, on Jan 18 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

I'd say the same for bosses, especially if we want to make them rather elaborate.

Would this be a kind of boss act, like S2SMS or S3D?

I kind of prefer just doing that on the midbosses, though.

[Galaxia]

muteKi, on Jan 18 2009, 10:21 PM, said:

I should note that I have nothing against having the bosses and minibosses outside of other acts. I mean, this way one can get a decent rank on performance in the level and not have to be worrying about minibosses and the like. If we add a challenge mode where the player has to, say, hold on to at least 50 rings at the level end that's another reason not to have the miniboss be part of the act.

I'd say the same for bosses, especially if we want to make them rather elaborate.

Or if that's the case, the minibosses could be disabled for said mode.

[SGR]

Blue Mountain Zone boss idea:



Explanation: In the first image, Robotnik fires a projectile on each "side." Then he switches to the other one. Then
what happens in picture 2 takes place. Repeat. Is that clear to everyone?

[Phoenix]

[BlackHole]

I have a boss idea you can use



Guide
Panel 1: Nack lowers down in some sort of contraption.
Panel 2: He drops a missle which fires off upon either aligning with Knuckles or is very close to the ground.
Panel 3: Nack fires the second missle at Knuckles, who either will get hit by the missle or can glide out of the way
Panel 4: Nack leaves directly after the missles, and depending on if the missle was dodged, will give the player the chance to hit him. If the missle hit, Nack will move quicker, so as to not be hit.
Final: After 7 Hits, Nack tries to reposition himself above Knuckles, and then drops down to hit Knuckles from above. You can either Spindash out the way, allowing the battle to continue, or hit Nack as he drops.

This post has been edited by BlackHole: 19 January 2009 - 03:25 PM

[Afti]

Quick concept for Blue Mountain boss. I'll make a mockup later.

So, Sonic enters a cave, and seems to be ready to move on... Then he reaches a geothermal power station within the cave, with its right wall blocking the way out. The ground starts to shake, the background opens up, and Robotnik flies out in a massive mechanical dragon, with the Eggpod mounted in its forehead. It's getting its power from the power station- wires are clearly visible. The dragon will remain behind Sonic for the entire battle. Now, it will try to smash Sonic with its forearms or its tail. These have glowing blue spheres embedded in them. After dodging them, the spheres can be hit, which will cause the appendage they're mounted on to go crazy for a few seconds. Sonic can hit them to bat them about now. So, Sonic has to slam it into the generator. Repeat six times, and Robotnik gets desperate and starts using fire/ice breath, which is fairly simple due to the location. Eight hits to the generator will cause it to explode, at which point the dragon will just sort of slump over and fall into the magma, and Robotnik will eject the Eggpod in the nick of time.

TL;DR: Blue Mountain should have a borderline-invincible robot dragon. With extension cords.

[Blue Cheese]

I like the Dragon idea. Gives Sonic a reason to be in the zone in the first place too.

[Vaiyt]

My personal preference goes towards making bosses appear seamlessly at the end of a zone, like in the classic games. It just feels right and more dramatic. With a dedicated boss act, having a "surprise!" moment with a boss becomes worthless.

For challenges, we can just disable them.

[Afti]

Vaiyt, on Jan 18 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

My personal preference goes towards making bosses appear seamlessly at the end of a zone, like in the classic games. It just feels right and more dramatic. With a dedicated boss act, having a "surprise!" moment with a boss becomes worthless.

For challenges, we can just disable them.

Agreed. Look at my dragon- if it comes at the end of the Zone, it's a shock- you just seem to be going on when there's a wall in the way, and then OSHAT GIANT DRAGON.

If it had its own act, it'd be expected.

[Vaiyt]

BlackHole, on Jan 18 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

Panel 1: Nack lowers down in somesort of contraption.
Panel 2: He drops a missle which fires off upon either aligning with Knuckles or is very close to the ground.
Panel 3: Nack fires the second missle at Knuckles, who either will get hit by the missle or can glide out of the way
Panel 4: Nack leaves directly after the missles, and depending on if the missle was didged, will give the player the chance to hit him. If the missle hit, Nack will move quicker, so as to not be hit.
Final: After 7 Hits, Nack tries to reposition himself above Knuckles, and then drops down to hit Knuckles from above. You can either Spindash out the way, allowing the battle to continue, or hut Nack as he drops.

I like this idea. I even have a more specific suggestion to make.

Panel 3: if the first missile is fired along the ground, the second should be fired at Knuckles' max jump height, so the player has space to glide under it by cutting the jump with a glide or just doing a low jump (tapping the jump button).
If the first missile is aligned with Knuckles, the second should do the same. That way, the player can use any available maneuvers to get out of the way, avoiding cheap hits.
Nack could alternate between the two patters to keep the battle fresh.

[test-object]

Vaiyt, on Jan 19 2009, 07:25 AM, said:

BlackHole, on Jan 18 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

Panel 1: Nack lowers down in somesort of contraption.
Panel 2: He drops a missle which fires off upon either aligning with Knuckles or is very close to the ground.
Panel 3: Nack fires the second missle at Knuckles, who either will get hit by the missle or can glide out of the way
Panel 4: Nack leaves directly after the missles, and depending on if the missle was didged, will give the player the chance to hit him. If the missle hit, Nack will move quicker, so as to not be hit.
Final: After 7 Hits, Nack tries to reposition himself above Knuckles, and then drops down to hit Knuckles from above. You can either Spindash out the way, allowing the battle to continue, or hut Nack as he drops.

I like this idea. I even have a more specific suggestion to make.

Panel 3: if the first missile is fired along the ground, the second should be fired at Knuckles' max jump height, so the player has space to glide under it by cutting the jump with a glide or just doing a low jump (tapping the jump button).
If the first missile is aligned with Knuckles, the second should do the same. That way, the player can use any available maneuvers to get out of the way, avoiding cheap hits.
Nack could alternate between the two patters to keep the battle fresh.

^ This.

What zone do you want this boss in, Blackhole?

[Matwek]

Personaly I would like to see the bosses more intergrated with the environment, I think its safe to say we're beyond 'robotnik has a new wepon attached to his ship'. Although taking it too far also creates problems. I belive that whilst Sonic CD had very different bosses depending on the level-type you often lost the intimacy of a one-on-one fight due to the fact that the bosses required you to avoid traps untill robotnick destroyed himself rather then you directly attacking him.

I agree that a seperate act for the boss does mean it loses a bit of the suspence but like-wise throwing the player straight into an arbitrary fight isn't good either.
The bosses that made the biggest impression on me were the ones that provided a brief interactive set-piece before the atual encounter, for example the lazer trap of FBZ followed by the rising floor or the missle attack and laverfall climb of LRZ (although that boss did suffer from the same problems as Sonic CD).
These short sections provide a way of seperating the boss from the main level and providing a slight increase in difficulty and change of pace without resorting to creating a seperate Act.

Act 1 - Short interactive in game cut-scene indicating what the Sub-boss is doing there (think Angel Island), folowed by the actual encounter at the end.

Act 2 - At end of act, short but tricky level theme based trap, usually involving a change of pace (fixed state of FBZ or slow screen scroll of LRZ) followed by Main boss

This post has been edited by Matwek: 19 January 2009 - 12:29 PM

[test-object]

Matwek, on Jan 19 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Personaly I would like to see the bosses more intergrated with the environment, I think its safe to say we're beyond 'robotnik has a new wepon attached to his ship'.

No we're not. That's what's missing. That's what this collab is all about: "A collaborative effort to create a new Sonic game based on classic design principles from the 16-bit Sonic era."