[Mobiethian]

jman2050, on Nov 18 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

But if BJ and the others really do organize this well then I think a quality product can be made, as I've seen some very good ideas being thrown around. Until then though, that's all they are: ideas. And believe me, I have plenty of those

We definitely welcome your ideas, get em' out there! I see a lot of very good ideas too, but I think a lot of us would agree that this project should be thought of as more than a just a fangame.

As for organization, Phoebius did a splendid job of setting up the topics. However, I must suggest that there should be more of them.. such as "Bonus Stage", "Special Stage" and perhaps a "Title cards/Fonts" topic.

[Rika Chou]

Maybe also a general objects and badniks topic.

We need more pixel artists who can make levels, I don't think I have really seen any new level art other than the edits to mine since the move to Sonic Retro.

This post has been edited by Rika Chou: 19 November 2008 - 06:37 PM

[Mobiethian]

Rika Chou, on Nov 19 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

Maybe also a general objects and badniks topic.

We need more pixel artists who can make levels, I don't think I have really seen any new level art other than the edits to mine since the move to Sonic Retro.

I consider myself to be a good pixel artist.. I must say that it is very time consuming and often times frustrating. I'll see what I can do.

Also, your level art for the Tropical Zone was near perfect when we first moved here. I am wanting so badly for the original art to remain the same, with only minor edits. I'll go ahead and set up those topics, we need them.

[jman2050]

BJCharles, on Nov 19 2008, 06:31 PM, said:

jman2050, on Nov 18 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

But if BJ and the others really do organize this well then I think a quality product can be made, as I've seen some very good ideas being thrown around. Until then though, that's all they are: ideas. And believe me, I have plenty of those

We definitely welcome your ideas, get em' out there! I see a lot of very good ideas too, but I think a lot of us would agree that this project should be thought of as more than a just a fangame.

As for organization, Phoebius did a splendid job of setting up the topics. However, I must suggest that there should be more of them.. such as "Bonus Stage", "Special Stage" and perhaps a "Title cards/Fonts" topic.

I'm not particularly interested in giving ideas on this project. Also, that isn't *quite* what I was getting at with my last post...

There's no structural hierarchy and no clearly defined goals. Development isn't gonna go anywhere until you all step back a bit and get all the basics down, independent of whatever is going on in each topic.

[Tweaker]

You know what? People like you aren't helping. I think we all know at this point that this project needs a clear direction and some solid management, but you whining about it and doing absolutely nothing to contribute is useless and only serves to agitate people. If you aren't willing to help and your sole purpose is to come in here and bitch about how everyone else is being inadequate, then just don't post.

[jman2050]

Tweaker, on Nov 20 2008, 08:48 PM, said:

You know what? People like you aren't helping. I think we all know at this point that this project needs a clear direction and some solid management, but you whining about it and doing absolutely nothing to contribute is useless and only serves to agitate people. If you aren't willing to help and your sole purpose is to come in here and bitch about how everyone else is being inadequate, then just don't post.

Or, alternatively, I can continue this line of conversation because I feel it is important, and I can respond based on what the project's leaders say and want to do, and ignore backseat moderation of my opinions by people who don't ultimately make those decisions.

Is that reasonable?

[Tweaker]

jman2050, on Nov 20 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Or, alternatively, I can continue this line of conversation because I feel it is important, and I can respond based on what the project's leaders say and want to do, and ignore backseat moderation of my opinions by people who don't ultimately make those decisions.

Is that reasonable?

It's passable based on a "skimming by the rules" sort of viewpoint, but it really doesn't give any constructive suggestions that haven't been brought up already. At this point, this project needs a lot more action and a lot less talk. Do you want to help improve the structure of the project? Try helping coordinate or diffuse feedback in a logical, coherent sense so people don't go back and forth arguing about what "should" be in the game. Write up some plans for organization that may help the Project Leaders organize things better. Do something!

Seriously—if the problem is with the lack of activity or coordination on part of the project leaders, how is telling them something they already know helping? I want to know this. The only way to really help is to try and pick up the slack where others are lacking. Otherwise, we're just endlessly going in circles.

[OSM]

I don't want to see this project die, I love the progress you've all made on it. I would love to pitch in and help with a few things if it's needed. I suggest working on Sonic's sprite sheet for a bit though. The only distinctly different trait about it is the head and the rest is a pasted on Sonic 3 base.

This post has been edited by OSM: 20 November 2008 - 09:47 PM

[jman2050]

Tweaker, on Nov 20 2008, 09:37 PM, said:

jman2050, on Nov 20 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Or, alternatively, I can continue this line of conversation because I feel it is important, and I can respond based on what the project's leaders say and want to do, and ignore backseat moderation of my opinions by people who don't ultimately make those decisions.

Is that reasonable?

It's passable based on a "skimming by the rules" sort of viewpoint, but it really doesn't give any constructive suggestions that haven't been brought up already. At this point, this project needs a lot more action and a lot less talk. Do you want to help improve the structure of the project? Try helping coordinate or diffuse feedback in a logical, coherent sense so people don't go back and forth arguing about what "should" be in the game. Write up some plans for organization that may help the Project Leaders organize things better. Do something!

Seriously—if the problem is with the lack of activity or coordination on part of the project leaders, how is telling them something they already know helping? I want to know this. The only way to really help is to try and pick up the slack where others are lacking. Otherwise, we're just endlessly going in circles.

Thank you for being reasonable about it. I don't appreciate the implication that I'm needlessly whining, that's all. You put forth some good suggestions, and if BJCharles and the others are willing I wouldn't mind putting my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I won't however presume to step in unless I know what whatever work I do is actually wanted. I'll just have to wait and see I guess.

[Phoenix]

SoNick, on Nov 15 2008, 01:45 AM, said:

Ugh, no.
Sonic Adventure 2 did that exact thing and it was really annoying; what if I like [character x]'s gameplay but detest [character y]'s?
Your method forces me to endure [character y]'s gameplay for no good reason.

It worked for every game since Knuckles' Chaotix, didn't it?

Matwek, on Nov 15 2008, 05:37 AM, said:

I don't see the problem with Tropical, circus then jungle. Fairs and carnivals are often located near the beach, then as you head further inland the vegetation gets thincker and you get a jungle.

Stadium Arcadium was just a place holder name for the circus zone that im glad we decided against

1) Very good point.
2) I kind of like the name, but definitely not for the circus zone, I agree. It's more of a final-boss-level type name, you know?

[Matwek]

Phoenix, on Nov 25 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

SoNick, on Nov 15 2008, 01:45 AM, said:

Ugh, no.
Sonic Adventure 2 did that exact thing and it was really annoying; what if I like [character x]'s gameplay but detest [character y]'s?
Your method forces me to endure [character y]'s gameplay for no good reason.

It worked for every game since Knuckles' Chaotix, didn't it?

Matwek, on Nov 15 2008, 05:37 AM, said:

I don't see the problem with Tropical, circus then jungle. Fairs and carnivals are often located near the beach, then as you head further inland the vegetation gets thincker and you get a jungle.

Stadium Arcadium was just a place holder name for the circus zone that im glad we decided against

1) Very good point.
2) I kind of like the name, but definitely not for the circus zone, I agree. It's more of a final-boss-level type name, you know?

Its also the name of a very mediocre Redhot Chilli Peppers album so I would rather we didn't use it unless you could alter it a bit (although probably best not to do that now, we have enough zone names for the moment)

[SoNick]

Phoenix, on Nov 25 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

SoNick, on Nov 15 2008, 01:45 AM, said:

Ugh, no.
Sonic Adventure 2 did that exact thing and it was really annoying; what if I like [character x]'s gameplay but detest [character y]'s?
Your method forces me to endure [character y]'s gameplay for no good reason.

It worked for every game since Knuckles' Chaotix, didn't it?

What..?
Sonic Adventure 1 didn't have it; you played as the character you chose from the beginning straight through to the end.
Sonic Adventure 2 *did* have it, and it was widely disliked.
In Sonic Heroes you selected a team and you played as that same team in every level until you reached the end.
Shadow I cannot comment on as I haven't played it, but I imagine that you don't play as characters other than the titular hedgehog.
Sonic '06 forced you to play as the "buddy" characters from time to time is what I've heard, and it was a source of complaints.
See where I'm going with this?

If not, let's toss handhelds into this as well:
In Sonic Pocket Adventure, I am *pretty sure* that you play as the character you chose straight through to the end. I haven't played it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.
In Sonic Advance 1 you play as the character you chose straight through to the end.
In Sonic Advance 2 you play as the character you chose straight through to the end.
In Sonic Advance 3 you choose a team between levels, I believe? My memory of this game is rusty and I'm at my parents' place so I don't have any handheld gaming consoles handy; someone care to fill me in?

Sonic Rush you play as the character you chose straight through to the end.
Sonic Rush Adventure I cannot comment on as I haven't played it, but I believe that it is the same as Rush.



In addition, it's just a bad design choice to force a gameplay style on a player; as I said in my original post, what if I really enjoy playing as Sonic, but I don't like playing as Knuckles? Why should I be forced to play as a character I don't like.
Going into another hypothetical - and this is a major hypothetical for several reasons - what if we included Amy? Thundertimi has made it clear in several topics that he really doesn't like her, and there are sure to be more like him. Why should we force him to play as a character he hates? Granted, this is extremely unlikely as last I knew the staff was against putting her in the game, but I bring it up only for the sake of proving my point.
Do you understand my point now?

[Rokkan]

People arguing that Amy shouldn't be in the game because she's a Sonic recolor makes me sad >:
I think it would be a really great addition; Amy could be the Hard Mode of this game. I had a lot of fun playing as her in Sonic Advance 1 because she couldn't spin and it made the game harder. OK, asking her to be playable is maybe a little too much, but at least make her being kidnapped by Metal Sonic like in Sonic CD!
And she doesn't have to be a recolor. We can make her design look good AND retro-ish. That's exactly what I did a few weeks ago:

Her spikes are roundish, which differs from Sonic, she has this side hair that looks like her new design. I re-did her clothes because her design had some god-awful colors that doesn't match at all. And I did some stylish boots for her.
It looks retro-ish, good, and doesn't look so much like a Sonic recolor, right guys?
...Right?
Well, I don't know since I'm the one who created it, I need opinions from others >:

Also, before I knew Sonic 4 (now named Sonic Retro) project, I went also with a Sonic 4 idea. One of the mid-bosses would be two Silver Sonics (or Mecha Sonics) which has the same abilities and would attack together. But when you would finally finish them, Metal Sonic appears and does that awesome boost dash from Sonic CD. You evade the attack, but you fall down to Act 2, and when you fall down, Metal Sonic doesn't stop and crushes the other two defeated Mecha Sonics.

[Jayextee]

[Rokkan]