[PC2]

[Tenniru]

I think a concept like that was used for the last boss of Death Egg in Sonic 3 (not Doomsday, just the regular third boss).

I personally thing that if this was Sonic 4, as in the game after 3 and before 5, the patterns of 1/2/3 would certainly call for a new character. However, this isn't Sonic 4 anymore: it's Sonic Retro. This can put it safely out of the "numerical progression" and into its own position, like Sonic CD and the Game Gear games (which added no playable characters).

Out of curiosity, is the order of the zones reflected in the list on the "Game Plans" thread? I ask because there it is:

Tropical Zone (working title)
Cosmic City (working title)
Blue Mountain (working title)
Canadian Level (working title)
Underground level (working title)
Rainforest Ruins (working title)
Stadium Arcadium (working title)
(Circus Zone wasn't mentioned)

This seems like a weird progression, not much like the natural-to-mechanical of the first two games (intended) and 3 (kind of).
I'd almost say something like:

-Tropical Zone
-Underground level (thrown below ground aka Angel Island)
-Canadian Level (Rising up from cave)
-Rainforest Ruins (start appearing at the end of Canada, collapse on player somehow, rainforest when he gets out)
-Blue Mountain (climb up from ruins; city in the skyline)
-Circus Zone (run down from mountain)
-Cosmic City Zone (Descend through circus to discover dark underbelly of city, then climb up until reaching a launch point)
-Stadium Arcadium (a mirror to the moon... sorry, a rocket launch, assuming this is space)
-That Last Level Only Super Sonic Gets To Be In

[Phoebius]

[Jof]

[Tenniru]

[Phoebius]

God... The city zone is not the last zone at all, but we decided the walkthrough only until that zone.

[SoNick]

Just a tad condescending there, Phoebius.
Please remember that the separate Sonic 4 Forums didn't allow guests to see anything, so many of us knew little to nothing of the details of this project before it moved back to Sonic Retro. I know that it's annoying to repeat yourself but please give us all some time to get the feel of this project, alright?

That aside, were there any plans on a specific number of levels? I've seen mention of the levels in that chart as well as Blue Mountain Zone which doesn't seem to have a place in the level order, but what beyond that has been discussed?
When will the character-specific level orders kick in?
Will each character only have their own final level, or will they each have their own set of final levels?

[Phoenix]

In my opinion, the circus zone should not go between Tropical Zone and Rainforest Ruins Zone. It just doesn't seem to go together. Like Emerald Hill > Chemical Plant > Aquatic Ruin > Casino Night. I know they all have a river behind them, but it doesn't make much sense.

Also, stadium arcadium is the final level? I haven't seen much of the concepts except for the title cards.

Finally, an idea that just might've been discussed in the brainstorming sessions for Sonic 3: What if the characters' stories interlocked during gameplay? This meaning that during the game, the character would change and you would be playing a completely different story. This would make level transitions that would make no sense with just one character(Tropical paradise to circus to forest?) create more depth to the game, add a lot more variety, and prevent holes in the story, like in S3K. What I'm talking about here is the confusion involving the ends of Sonic & Tails' stories and Knuckles' story. Which happens first? Does Sonic fight Knuckles before Knuckles goes to Sonic's first point of entry in Angel Island, or the other way around? This could allow the characters to interact, allowing a smoother story, without any mixups.

I like that Fang would be an unlockable character, seeing how his story is completely different from anyone else. But that could cause problems as well if he fights with anyone in the main story of the game. If anyone's played even the second boss of Sonic Heroes, you would know that there's no way both of them could have won and lost the battle. So, the story for Fang, if he is a boss for any other character, has to be either a (sort of) prequel, or something to go after the ending. Or he could possibly fight with (whoever) and still have a cutscene at the end of the battle. It would let the player see what happens to Fang and what he does to get to where you fight him. Or something like that.

[Blue Emerald]

I don't think it would cause any problem if Nack/Fang was defeated in the Sonic storyline. In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you could defeat Knuckles in Sonic's storyline, and play the game again as Knuckles the protagonist, without ever seeing Sonic, or ever having to set traps for Sonic. If we did the same thing for this game, a playable Nack might work out.

However, I can't help but wonder what kind of moveset he'd have, or what kind of special platform-centric skills he'd have to get around the stages. Sonic has speed moves, Tails has flight and the ability to swim, and Knuckles has climbing and gliding. What would Nack have?

This post has been edited by Blue Emerald: 14 November 2008 - 10:36 PM

[Phoenix]

A gun. What more would he need?

[SoNick]

Phoenix, on Nov 14 2008, 07:04 PM, said:

Finally, an idea that just might've been discussed in the brainstorming sessions for Sonic 3: What if the characters' stories interlocked during gameplay? This meaning that during the game, the character would change and you would be playing a completely different story. This would make level transitions that would make no sense with just one character(Tropical paradise to circus to forest?) create more depth to the game, add a lot more variety, and prevent holes in the story, like in S3K. What I'm talking about here is the confusion involving the ends of Sonic & Tails' stories and Knuckles' story. Which happens first? Does Sonic fight Knuckles before Knuckles goes to Sonic's first point of entry in Angel Island, or the other way around? This could allow the characters to interact, allowing a smoother story, without any mixups.

Ugh, no.
Sonic Adventure 2 did that exact thing and it was really annoying; what if I like [character x]'s gameplay but detest [character y]'s?
Your method forces me to endure [character y]'s gameplay for no good reason.

Quote

I like that Fang would be an unlockable character, seeing how his story is completely different from anyone else. But that could cause problems as well if he fights with anyone in the main story of the game. If anyone's played even the second boss of Sonic Heroes, you would know that there's no way both of them could have won and lost the battle. So, the story for Fang, if he is a boss for any other character, has to be either a (sort of) prequel, or something to go after the ending. Or he could possibly fight with (whoever) and still have a cutscene at the end of the battle. It would let the player see what happens to Fang and what he does to get to where you fight him. Or something like that.

And with this, I think you're thinking too much into this; if I understand correctly the idea is for him to be the extra hidden character with a non-canon story; his levels would either have no story at all or a story that can conflict with the main one because this is an extra, not a part of the main game.

[Matwek]

Phoenix, on Nov 15 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

In my opinion, the circus zone should not go between Tropical Zone and Rainforest Ruins Zone. It just doesn't seem to go together. Like Emerald Hill > Chemical Plant > Aquatic Ruin > Casino Night. I know they all have a river behind them, but it doesn't make much sense.

Also, stadium arcadium is the final level? I haven't seen much of the concepts except for the title cards.

Which happens first? Does Sonic fight Knuckles before Knuckles goes to Sonic's first point of entry in Angel Island, or the other way around?

I don't see the problem with Tropical, circus then jungle. Fairs and carnivals are often located near the beach, then as you head further inland the vegetation gets thincker and you get a jungle.

Stadium Arcadium was just a place holder name for the circus zone that im glad we decided against

and knuckles story happens after sonics as the death egg is destroyed it doesn't apper in the background of hidden palace zone

[Thundertimi]

I think, that we should just keep Fang/Nack as miniboss.

[Overlord]

Phoenix, on Nov 15 2008, 03:39 AM, said:

A gun. What more would he need?

Yeah, because that worked SO well for Shadow.

Even he was given some extra bonus abilities in StH than just weaponry.

[MoI]

Quote

In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you could defeat Knuckles in Sonic's storyline, and play the game again as Knuckles the protagonist, without ever seeing Sonic, or ever having to set traps for Sonic.

I might be misreading comments on this subject, but I thought it was common knowledge that Knuckles' story takes place after Sonic/Tails'? Hench the sky background in AIZ1 and the lack of Death Egg at places.

Oh, just read Matweck. But it still stands.

And I like the idea of Fang as a mini-boss? Although have you guys considered what format you'd do acts in? Broken up like Sonic 12's, or Sonic 3 and Knuckles' big long levels?