On that note, I was just looking on Wikipedia because I wanted to see what platformers predated Pitfall since I was going to contrast the influence that had vs. Super Mario Bros, and it says Clockwork Knight was the first 2.5D platformer. Does anyone know if this indeed true?
I only found one site in Indonesia to actually make this claim, but I could find no contradictory claims either, so...yes?? It's certainly the earliest one I can think of. Platform games (back then) were almost exclusively a product of Japan. Clockwork Knight was released near the launch of the Saturn in November 1994, and Japan didn't really have any home console hardware capable of rendering 3D environments prior to that (well, there were a few fully 3D games on the SNES, but no platformers.) So unless there was a 2.5D platformer made for arcades released earlier (I know very little about Japanese arcade titles), I think Clockwork Knight takes the prize.
There seems to be a lot of confusion over what 2.5D is (Wikipedia suggests that even parallax scrolling qualifies, which dates back to 1982), but as I understand it, 2.5D means that the graphics are rendered in 3D, but the gameplay only occurs on a 2D plane. DKC's graphics are pre-rendered 3D models and thus wouldn't count. But other people define it differently, so who knows.
The way most people use it and what it’s referring to with Clockwork Knight is 2D gameplay that utilizes 3D models for the characters and backgrounds. The Wikipedia page for 2.5D encompasses pseudo-3D in addition to that but it’s not really how the term is used anymore. So yeah, DKC wouldn’t count if we’re using the Clockwork Knight definition. Maybe people used 2.5D to refer to it in the past, but no one would nowadays.
Okay Clockwork Knight added. In EGM's review of Worldwide Soccer 97, they said it "set the standard for all other soccer games to follow. As such, it is considered to be the 'Madden' or 'NHL' of soccer." They cited the player animations, intelligent AI, realistic passing, and graphics" but I dunno if it is worth an addition.
I don't think magazine reviews should be the standard by which games are added. EGM was usually fair, but I've seen far too many, shall we say, overly generous reviews in various mags to ever be able to take them as definitive judgement - they're just another opinion. Besides which, most reviews are written before the game is even released or shortly afterwards. Judging a game to be influential is something that obviously can't be done until much later. Not saying it isn't worth adding - I have no idea. I was living in America at the time and subscribed to several video game mags, but don't remember ever even hearing about it (the only soccer game I remember reading about was International Superstar Soccer 64). Someone in Europe would have a better vantage point to judge if it was influential towards the development of later soccer/football games. The wikipedia article on the game says that EGM never reviewed WWS'97 (understandable, as EGM is a USA mag and Worldwide Soccer is a game about...soccer. On the Saturn, no less). Though they did place it in a top 100 console games list made in 1997 (where the quote originated.) For anyone interested, the highest rated game for a Sega system on that list was Saturn Bomberman at #10. The highest rated game from Sega themselves is Sonic CD at #17. Oh, and that International Superstar Soccer 64 game I mentioned earlier is rated at #24 (50 places higher on the list than Worldwide Soccer 97's #74) and includes the quote "no soccer game comes close to this one."
I am English, and a big footie fan. Listed Virtua Striker already, since that was an early 3D one. Worldwide Soccer was probably in my top 3 most played game Saturn games alongside Nights into Dreams and Sega Rally, but I guess it wasn't the game changer. It was just well received, and better than ISS 64 IMO. The Euros IP was born on the Saturn, but it was just a reskin of another football fan so I wouldn't count that.
Interestingly, while the previously mentioned 1997 list was a "top 100 games of all time" list, in 2006, EGM's 200th issue published a "top 200 games of THEIR time" list, with more emphasis on which games made the most impact at the time of release or the most lasting impact (i.e. influence) on the gaming industry. On that list, the only soccer game is the SNES version of International Superstar Soccer (#144). Granted, this is a list from an American perspective, so it would be unusual for a bunch of soccer games to show up there. Sega titles on the list: 197. NFL 2K1 (DC) 188. ChuChu Rocket (DC) 176. Flashback (MD) 174. Snatcher (Sega CD) 169. Crazy Taxi (Arcade) 168. Sega Rally Championship (Arcade) 160. Nights into Dreams (SS) 159. Ecco the Dolphin (MD) 158. Herzog Zwei (MD) 140. Panzer Dragoon (SS) 136. Phantasy Star IV (MD) 132. Virtua Tennis (DC) 129. Revenge of Shinobi (MD) 127. Zaxxon (Arcade) 122. Virtua Fighter 4 (PS2) 120. Outrun (Arcade) 116. Shenmue (DC) 113. Lunar: The Silver Star (SS) 111. Dragon Force (SS) 102. Landstalker (MD) 97. Phantasy Star II (MD) 91. After Burner (Arcade) 89. Golden Axe (Arcade) 84. Gunstar Heroes (MD) 80. Panzer Dragoon Saga (SS) 78. Daytona USA (Arcade) 57. Virtua Racing (Arcade) 56. Sonic the Hedgehog (MD) 49. NHLPA Hockey '93 (MD) 37. Virtua Fighter 2 (Arcade) 26. Phantasy Star (MS) 22. Soul Calibur (DC) 21. Phantasy Star Online (DC) 20. Virtua Fighter (Arcade)
Outtrigger on arcade/Dreamcast is referred to as the first “hero shooter” on SegaRetro since it has classes with distinct abilities. Not sure how much influence it had on Team Fortress, if it had any at all lol. May be worth looking at similar games and seeing if any devs mentioned it. It’s pretty obscure though so probably not. Edit: The first official release of Team Fortress predated Outtrigger by 7 months, and the original predated it by 3 years. I’m not sure what the editor who put wrote that meant by “hero shooter” but it may be worth changing.
SWWS 97 derives from Victory Goal 96, and I'm not totally sure how much was changed from a technology perspective. It's definitely the more impressive game than FIFA 97, but I would fully expect FIFA to sell more. It can be difficult to tell who was infleuncing what - the genre was improving pretty rapidly in the mid-90s. But it does remind me - there were a few rivals at the time, and one of them was Actua Soccer which I believe made to jump to full 3D before both of them*. "Actua" was Gremlin Interactive's play on the "Virtua" series by Sega. *and Virtua Striker was there even earlier.
ISS SNES a bigger influence than FIFA? That's ridiculous, and I say that as someone who doesn't really care about football games.
Interesting list kitsunebi. I'm curious what they said about Nights into Dreams. It is my favourite game of all time, but I don't see much impact it had. I know there was the US comic, but that didn't last long. Yeah, I mentioned Virtua Striker. FIFA definitly outsold Worldwide Soccer overall but I reckon WW Soccer probably sold better on Saturn. Actua Soccer was made here in Sheffield. They did a reskin version called Euros 96 for the event in England. A actually rare Western console exclusive on Saturn. Try and score that Gazza wonder goal against Scotland on your Saturn
Well, not until the top 100 did they actually write something about each game. For games 200-101 on the list, they only printed commentary for every 1 out of 5 games or so, and NiGHTS didn't get anything said about why it made the list. Here's their review (from an earlier issue), since you're curious: https://postimg.cc/Kk6JS43g
Idk If this counts, but Sonic R was really influential on the hyperpop scene (in music) when it came to its soundtrack. I don't listen to the genre, but I often see people online credit the soundtrack for being one of the most influential works for it.
Interesting. Could you tell me more about this? I can't find much on google. I remember someone on Sonic Team crediting it as the birth of the Sonic Racing series, despite the Game Gear racers predating it.
I remember it being quite famous at the time and maybe influential at said time too, but of course FIFA won on the long run.
I'm not exactly sure. I could be wrong but I know for a fact that hyperpop fans credit the soundtrack as influential in the genre. Even outside the genre, I've seen people call it an influential soundtrack. The reason why it has been called that is because a lot of Sonic R's sound is present in hyperpop, which began in like the 2000s-2010s.
